Members JackPeyton Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 very true - but also things were very diff when he did it - things were very diff even just 10 years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRBB Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 Oh, so when things are going good at B&B, it sure isn't Alden's doing, but when it's boring and bad it IS her doing? Everyone keeps saying that Bell is writing the soap, so this and this weren't good because Alden wrote it--yet, all the bad stuff is her fault? What kind of logic is that? Some people really need to let go of their biases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 Ugh...you folks are a rough audience That said, I am with you that the recent B&B has been...overwrought. For me, it is NOT the "boring medical drama" that is the problem, but what it implies: That is, an artificial elevation of the drama in short term bursts with life-and-death drama. That is guaranteed to work...but when you do it so often, you quickly burn out unless there is some real death. AND, if there is real death (Storm), you soon start to get into a depressing zone without balance. This latter is the kiss of death on a once-high-camp show like B&B. The reliance on high-stakes near death makes B&B _no different_ from GH. Sure, GH relies on mobs and violence and serial killers right now...but the core problem is identical: An unending string of deaths cheapens the death. Kay Alden alluded to this when talking about AMC and saying there was too much stuff going on. That is the definition of event driven drama...a circus of plot climaxes with no root in serious emotional development. The way I see it, B&B has two deeper crises. The first is the geriatric nature of its' core...only KKL is under 50 in the "big Four". More importantly, each of the core four is PATENTLY DISLIKED by a large segment (if not the majority) of the audience. Familiarity, redundant plotting, and simply stupid character choices without integrity, have rendered these characters as worthy of revulsion. Only Stephanie has had a pseudo-consistent integrity...and that is because Susan Flannery has maintained her throughline of bitter, over-protective, sardonic... but that doesn't exactly make her the moral center of the show Back in the day, we had INNOCENT Brooke...who got a pass because of her youth and because she really BELIEVED that "fate" crap. 21 years later it is more a sign of her delusional nature and failure to grow up. Moreover, Brooke was the "I don't MEAN to be bad" girl. She was offset by genuinely rootable heroines like Carolyn and then Taylor. Ridge was offset by the genuinely decent Thorne. Now, that balance is gone. There is no likeable heroine...the sole hope (Bridget) has also been ruined by redundant and stupid choices (love my brother? Nick Nick Nick?). I will respect Alden if she uses her new power to position the show along the lines of what Bill Bell did at Y&R in the early 80s. CLEAN HOUSE. Fairly rapidly shuffle the past-expiration-date families off the canvas, and rebuild. I strongly doubt this will happen. On Usenet, they are talking again about the expected imminent cancellation of GL...will that "extra hour" buy at least a half an hour to expand B&B? I doubt Brad wants that (it will hurt international syndication)...but anything to shake up this canvas would be good. Honestly, this is the ONE show where a "tornado" or a "serial killer" or a "hostage taking" that cleans the canvas and launches a new direction would be powerfully welcomed by me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 I just dont understand how people know who writes what. But i dont pay attention too much so i cant really judge. when its good its good and when its bad its bad. i blame everyone that has a hand in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 Of course, again JP, truer words were never spoken. It is ALWAYS the whole creative team. Even IF one person is responsible for the bad ideas, the rest of the team is letting them get away with it. (Eg., not mentioning Victor's TWO vasectomies at Y&R). I feel like this is Jack Peyton axiom #2. Seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members JackPeyton Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 thank you. say everything bad at B&B is all KA's doing - BB lets it happen. He allows it. And inf act encourges it by allowing it. Therefor, what IS Alden's fault is Bell's fault as well. If a show has a weak script writer - its the people above them that are fault. same for ahw, co-hw, ep's, hw's, etc. Somewhere down the line is a top of the line, and i assume at B&B its Brad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Evan Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 If she can temper some of Bell's excesses, it'll be a good move! However, I fear this means more of the Y&R alumni, like Heather Tom and Jennifer Gareis, being shoved down the viewers throats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 I don't think anyone ever said everything wrong with B&B was Alden's doing. However, many disliked the strike and from we know, most of that was Alden's writing. B&B ALWAYS goes through ups and downs, for part of the year it's always very good, for the other part of the year it's always very bad. That's just the way Bradley and B&B function. However, a lot of us just have very little faith in Alden's promotion, if it's true that she was responsible for the deplorable strike material and the forcing of the Logan's down everyone's throat that's being alleged. It also doesn't help that Alden's hypocrisy is shining through. As I mentioned before, she had a very condescending attitude towards B&B in her MIT interview, and now that ABC passed on her ass and she's Co-HW, everything is supposed to be OK? I'm sorry, but it seems to me that she had very little interest or faith in B&B prior to Frons passing on her, which leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. I don't think any soap needs anyone like that, regardless of qualifications. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members MarkH Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 I have a different take. I think she was EXCITED to strike out on her own and show what she could do at AMC. AMC has a lot of the same "good bones" that Y&R has...a root in the Irna Phillips descendants, many core families still around, and at least a few veterans. I think after all the dissing she took at Y&R (demoted, then non-renewed), she wanted to fix her reputation and legacy. It didn't work out. Rain1 on here has said that her bible was not acceptable. Okay, with that in mind, the Bells did what family SHOULD DO! They encouraged her chance to spread her wings. The world was not accepting. So they welcomed her home with open arms. Honestly, I believe Alden's promotion to HW (with Brad...he's not leaving) is the "family's" attempt to give her another chance to rehab her reputation after all the Sony/CBS dissing at Y&R. In that sense, my devout WISH for her is that she can rebuild this show. That said, I continue to think she is a better fit for what AMC used to be (no other ABC soap...just AMC...in part because of the 'social issue' roots) than B&B. B&B is just a flashy soap, and Kay Alden is (don't hate me!) just too midwestern to be a perfect fit. I don't mind Y&R vets being shoved down our throats. I thing B&B vets are BEYOND overdone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 It makes no difference, Bill Bell owned both shows, and Bradley does by extention. I don't think the ways of producing soaps have changed very much from a production stand-point in 10 years. Is there more network interference? Yes. Can someone handle two shows? Yes, and it helps that both shows belong to his family. And Bradley would hire former Bell employees to help him out with running B&B and Y&R, so it wouldn't be all that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRBB Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 Oh, there are some who do that But I understand where you're coming from. I wasn't very happy with the strike either, apart from a few stuff I really liked (such as Brooke, which Alden really seemed to get. Plus, it seemed to me Ridge was MUCH LESS an ass than usual. In short, characters were much better, including Nick.). However, I AM going to make you roll your eyes by reminding that Alden head-wrote, break-downed, scripted AND edited the show all by herself for months... unless I am mistaken, because the only name credited was hers. As for that interview, I didn't think it was condescending. Describing it as flashy was like calling gold shiny. It was. Though, I wouldn't then go to beg the HW of the show for a job. The thing is, Alden has done some great stuff and some bad stuff, but she is just not the one solely responsible for what's happening to B&B right now (as has been said numerous times by numerous posters on this thread: "She has turned it from flashy to boring" and such comments.). If B&B continues being like this when she comes on board as co-HW, then bash away! (not you, I hope I'm making that clear ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 I wasn't talking only about The Bold and the Beautiful and The Young and the Restless: Bill also did Y&R and DOOL, and ATWT and GL (I'm not sure about the latter, but I think there were 3 examples of him running 2 shows at the same time). And he was always quite successful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members YRBB Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 Well, no-one's saying Alden or Bradley (or anyone for that matter) are anywhere close to Bell's genius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Sylph Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 This is just a out-of-the-blue, disparate comment, I wouldn't know what to say... And it badly needs to be commented upon, but it just doesn't fit in the discussion we're having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Y&RWorldTurner Posted July 21, 2008 Members Share Posted July 21, 2008 He Head-Wrote Y&R and DAYS at the same time from 1973-1975, stemming from a legal dispute with DAYS. He was a writer on GL in 1956 only, and from 1957-1966 he worked for ATWT. He helped Irna create AW in 1964 and Co-HW it with her for its first year. In his time at ATWT, I think he worked in various writing positions, ultimately becoming Irna's Co-HW, before she recommended him to take over a then struggling DAYS in 1966. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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