Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[Vee]

I am sort of inter-mixing my watch of the back half of the LMs, Loving 1994 (and some of '92-'93) and the Y&R classics atm, along with ATWT '86.

 

I remember watching a fair bit of Kim Hunter in the Mansion of the Damned story on EON years ago. I was just discussing trying to dive back into it a couple weeks ago. I believe @DRW50 said there's some good YT playlists.

[Khan]

 

Actually, IIRC, Sandy Dennis made her TV debut on GL, back when it was THE GL, in the mid-'50's.  So, it would have been sort of like a "full circle moment" for her, I guess?

 

 

I could believe that, lol!

Edited May 31, 2020 by Khan

[DRW50]

 

Her episodes start in this playlist. She isn't in every one but she features heavily. There are two story arcs for her - the first one where she's mostly drunk and dealing with her kids/stepkids and loser husband, which mostly gets into the good stuff when she begins filming Mansion of the Damned, and then when she's alone and goes full psycho on Frances Fisher. 

 

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I kept hearing Alex and Ava say she was with the kids - was she just offcamera all the time in this stint? 

[victoria foxton]

Minnie appears in this episode. 

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[DRW50]

Thanks for letting me know. I am glad they wrote Minnie similar to her old self and let her have a real discussion with Alex about what he'd done to Egypt. I just wish the story hadn't had to happen...

 

That video store set is so detailed, and we even got a day player and an extra. What a world. 

[j swift]

What was Alex Master's original motive for "stealing" Clay Alden's identity?

 

He didn't seem to be in it for the money, because he never tried to con the Alden's or raid the coffers of their business.  In fact, he was never written as money-hungry, or even particularly ambitious.  He didn't initially hate Clay.  Their rivalry seemed to build once Clay returned to Corinth and Alex was hypnotized into trying to kill him.  He also never expressed any animosity toward the Alden family.  He was kind to Trisha and tried to be a stabilizing force to Curtis.  Finally, he didn't seem to be trying to uncover any mysteries that would necessitate him going undercover as Clay.  I read that the Alex's reveal occurred during a writer's strike and I wonder if that was the cause of the lack of inquiry into his motives.

 

He was one of those odd soap guys, (like Roman Brady or Shane Roberts) who arrived without a backstory but within a few years their entire history became totally convoluted. Alex was not only an escapee from a prison camp (twice), but also a spy-for-hire who was married to Egypt, and a federal agent who had an affair with Tracy Quartermaine when he investigated the mob.  Age-wise he was old enough to be the father of Rick (who seemed to be in his early 30's in the mid-1980's), Trisha, and Curtis, (who was nearly the same age as Ava), but young enough to have fought in Vietnam.

 

Also, (much like Roman Brady), only in a soap town could a man who was once brainwashed into being an assassin become the chief of police (there should be a list of all the former spies, foreign traitors, and assassins who join small town soap police forces; I talking to you Anna Devaine and Robert Scorpio). 

 

So, I'm left with a couple of questions.  Did Alex know Clay was alive when he came to Corinth?  Does anyone recall any exposition about his plans?  Did Alex ever mention his family of origin?  I found this great resource, but there is very little discussion about Alex's true motivation http://www.stybz.com/monszter/RM/lov88.htm

Edited May 31, 2020 by j swift

[DRW50]

 

From that 1989 episode on Youtube with the two Clays, I think Alex had assumed Clay was dead, but I can't remember now. I haven't watched this since it was first uploaded.

 

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[EricMontreal22]

I adore Loving but I could never explain the Clay/Alex story at any of the stages I've watched (either when it aired or since on YT)  Yet on the Loving FB page it's a fave of many...  (Maybe just cuz it went on so long

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[j swift]

If I were to play time-traveling-imaginary-writer, I would have written it that Alex went to Corrinth to tell the Alden's that Clay was presumed dead.  However, when he got there the family assumed that he was Clay. In order to spare their feelings (and because he always wanted to be part of a family), he played along with the ruse.  Dan (the other secret agent) or Ava could have served the expository function in order to flesh out Alex's motives. 

 

The other issue that was never adequately explored was his attraction to women like Ava, Egypt, and Tracy.  Why was Alex always going for the schemers?  What was the masochistic origin of his desire to engage with women who always had a trick up their sleeve, and left him feeling as if they were never fully committed to the relationship?

 

Loving was pretty good at exploring characters like Ava, Curtis, and even Stacy.  We understood their perspective and most of their choices seemed organic to their values and beliefs.  For example, we watched how Ava's early baby-buying story informed her later relationships and desire to have a child. We saw that Curtis always felt like second-best in both his family and relationships and therefore was constantly looking validation.  And, even an ingenue like Stacy was allowed to grow after being betrayed by love.  However, Alex was purely a plot device.  Given the time that soaps have to tell their stories, it always feels like a missed opportunity when the audience doesn't get an analysis of the characters. 

[Franko]

Simpsons did it! Simpsons did it! (No, I'm just kidding. It's a dramatically sound/can be played reason.)

[Forever8]

More Episodes Of Loving @DRW50 @dc11786 @victoria foxton @Vee

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[Franko]

What a feast! We've got the very end of 1992 though most of January 1993. Side note: is it me, or does Cooper's wardrobe feel way too busy? I get that it's winter and layering, but ...

[Vee]

Officially too much to watch!

[DRW50]

 

You can't say that about Loving uploads too often...

 

 

 

That's the early '90s for you.

[victoria foxton]

Thanks @Forever8 Clay's gaslighting of Stacey has a haunting vibe which i'm digging.