Loving/The City Discussion Thread

[EricMontreal22]

There actually was a problem with uploading several of the full episodes--YT kept flagging them due to copyright issues and Mike couldn't figure out what needed to be edited out so this is probably the best compromise, although I agree with you that it's always nice to see these stories in context and how they played opposite all the other stories.

[EricMontreal22]

What's interesting is the story outline for the supernatural stuff is from November 1984 when I believe Doug Marland was still HW.  But actually the storyline played out over a year and a bit when all is said and done...  The story starts Summer 1984. He “dies” in November. Comes back soon after as Keith. By spring you realize Jonathan is back. He has his finale in Nov 1985.  (Douglas Marland was off the show as HW I believe in June 1985 when his two year contract was up.)  Here's the story proposal/treatment's first few pages--message me for more if wanted.  Over half of it is Agnes Nixon, God bless her, detailing classic literary precedent for her story, etc--I doubt JER did that when he pitched the Marlena possession storyline

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Edited March 13 by EricMontreal22

[DRW50]

Thanks. Usually, it's a music problem. 

Maybe they can go up on Archive sometime, while that site is still around.

Thanks. I respect that Nixon worked so hard to get to the point where she had this show she could use to tell stories that she enjoyed - and she wasn't wrong about the popularity of this genre with the broader public, even if this one didn't have the same big response.

Edited March 13 by DRW50

[EricMontreal22]

Yes--even if the execution didn't live up to her lofty ideals, I gotta respect the thought she put into this, as well.  I would love to know what Marland made of it all (or was he already planning his exit at this point?  For some reason I get the feeling he may have been...)

[Soaplovers]

The first year of the show was derailed because of ABC interfering with the Lily Slater tale and forcing the show to wrap it up earlier then planned, plus the Merrill V story was not popular with fans either.

So I have a feeling this Jonathan story was an attempt by Agnes and co to make Loving stand out and to establish a new identity.  Had she continued this more supernatural/gothic vibe for Loving, it could have been the ticket to giving the show an identity.

Corinth could have been the daytime version of Derry Maine with all the weird and random going-ons mixed with the typical soap opera plots.  

 

[Vee]

Thanks! I'll check this out.

Oh, this is funny. They're literally using Wendy Carlos' music from The Shining at the beginning. Is there any place I can find background on exactly the deal with this character or how it all got started? I haven't read about the Jonathan saga in years.

Edited March 14 by Vee

[Franko]

Here you go, @Vee

https://lovingsoapopera.wordpress.com/2023/02/10/character-profile-jonathan-matalaine/

Oh, and thank you, @DRW50, for the tag. I'll have to find some time to watch the video.

[Vee]

Thanks so much.

[VelekaCarruthers]

I just found in my collection six consecutive breakdowns as shown in the photos.  This was the first week or two of Walsh/Ryder as head writers.  Youtube has the 1/3192 closing credits and Fran Sears is still EP but the writing team is Addie Walsh/Jeff Ryder Matt Labine/Laurie McCarthy/Paul Balido and Kirk Aanes/Lewis Arlt/Kathleen Tolan. Not sure if Grainger was EP during these episodes or if Sears was in her final week or so. Well written outlines, especially Matt's.

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Edited March 16 by VelekaCarruthers

[DRW50]

Thanks so much @VelekaCarruthers !

[Paul Raven]

@VelekaCarruthers Thank you for sharing.

2025 is shaping up to be a bumper year for soap historians.

[TheyStartedOnSoaps]

John O'Hulrey in a new interview where at the very end he talks about Loving - and reveals who his "double" was when he played twins (Jonathan & Keith) - it was none other than Oscar Nominee Chazz Palminteri! Go 51 minutes into interview below

 

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[DRW50]

@TheyStartedOnSoaps What a reveal. Thanks. 

I never got to watch the Men/Women of Loving specials. Was John on there?

[EricMontreal22]

It's interesting--in that era the ABC soaps did use movie score tracks, maybe most memorably AMC having the Halloween theme when AMC had the helicopter prison escape (Erica trying to get Jeremy out I think?)  The theme from Somewhere in Time also shows up on OLTL and AMC episodes from this time.

[Vee]

Yeah. I can't remember if I mentioned this in public recently but Gottlieb used to get credit for using movie scores, whereas they're clearly around before her in the '80s ( @DRW50 noticed I think Loving using Tangerine Dream's score to Sorcerer). I think she may have re-popularized it at ABC in the '90s though, as LOV and some of the other shows regularly used wonderful, evocative music from films like Jennifer Eight and Presumed Innocent in the early decade as well.