3 hours ago, Chris 2 said:

Yep. The only reason they killed her off was because they thought the recasts didn’t work and there was no way Kate Mulgrew was returning full time.

I agree

Kate was on 2.5 years

Then MC was there 5 months

KT Was There 6 months

NG Was there a year

If MC lasted even two years & they recasted Mary like the other Ryans every few years I think Mary Ryan could have lasted the series

How was the Dakota Smith character received back in the day? He wasn't a Labine/Mayer creation, was he? After watching the episodes rerun on SoapNet and what's out there on YouTube, I couldn't imagine Johnny stepping out on Maeve. I can't imagine the audience did, either.

2 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

How was the Dakota Smith character received back in the day? He wasn't a Labine/Mayer creation, was he? After watching the episodes rerun on SoapNet and what's out there on YouTube, I couldn't imagine Johnny stepping out on Maeve. I can't imagine the audience did, either.

I do not think Claire liked that story rewrite but Dakota was popular so she continued to write for him

Speaking of Dakota, here's a nice article about Christopher Durham that was published last year:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.progress-index.com/news/20190331/hopewell-native-talks-about-his-experiences-in-new-york-city%3ftemplate=ampart

5 hours ago, Chris 2 said:

Yep. The only reason they killed her off was because they thought the recasts didn’t work and there was no way Kate Mulgrew was returning full time.

 

Sign me up as another person to like Mary Carney the best of all the Mary recasts. I know some grew to like Nicolette Goulet in the part, but her version of Mary just seemed so divorced from KM's iteration - the balance of self-righteousness and charm wasn't right. I'm currently watching episodes from August 1979 in which Jack and Siobhan are still in the process of grappling with their feelings for each other, and while I loved KM's Mary (as much she she could also frustrate me), I find it hard to care about how this situation impacts her.

 

My one qualm with MC is that it's hard to imagine her Mary as a lead, though that may simply be a side effect of how the character was backburnered in those first months post-Mulgrew.

  

46 minutes ago, amybrickwallace said:

How was the Dakota Smith character received back in the day? He wasn't a Labine/Mayer creation, was he? After watching the episodes rerun on SoapNet and what's out there on YouTube, I couldn't imagine Johnny stepping out on Maeve. I can't imagine the audience did, either.

 

The consensus has seemed to be that this was a mistake and out of character for Johnny, but I do think it added an interesting tension within the family and also had the nice side effect of bringing more attention to the Ryans after they were largely sidelined as a unit throughout 1984 and 1985. Quality-wise, I think it also easily eclipses all of the other stories Tom King and Millee Taggart told during their first year as headwriters, though that's not necessarily saying much given how low the show had fallen by that point. (Mid-1986 is really when the show begins to turn around in my book.) I also really liked Christopher Durham in the part.

 

I was surprised to see Claire Labine list it as one of her favorite RH stories in this article from 1998 (https://ryansbaronline.tripod.com/labine3.html), and she definitely maximized the fallout when she returned as headwriter in February 1987. King/Taggart had Maeve forgive Johnny and accept Dakota into the family in relatively short order in the spring of 1986; once Jill reunited with Frank in August 1986, a lot of the tension in the Dakota/Ryan dynamic had seemingly dissipated. By contrast, Labine chipped away at whatever peace the family had achieved by having Dakota constantly trying to undermine Johnny's relationship with his other sons, driven in part by Dakota's blaming of Pat for the death of Melinda Weaver (Pat's wife and Dakota's childhood best friend) and his general apathy for Frank due to the Jill situation. Dakota's constant scheming ultimately led to the separation of Maeve and Johnny right after Christmas 1987, which led to some dynamite scenes for Helen Gallagher and Bernie Barrow (winning her a third Emmy and him another nomination).

 

There was another interview where Christopher Durham attributed his departure from the show in September 1988 to Labine not liking the Dakota character, but I can see why she ultimately chose to write him off. At that point, Johnny had given Dakota so many chances to turn things around, only to be proven wrong yet again; by the time his latest schemes to undermine John Reid's political career and impregnate Nancy Don with a baby she was going to pass off as Ben's were revealed, it made sense that they needed some time apart.

Thank you, @Sean. Maybe RH would have brought Dakota back (with or without Christopher Durham) at some point had they not been cancelled.

10 hours ago, Sean said:

My one qualm with MC is that it's hard to imagine her Mary as a lead, though that may simply be a side effect of how the character was backburnered in those first months post-Mulgrew.

 

Agreed. I would have been interested to see how she would have been once they actually gave Mary a story.

 

My other issue was whether she would have had decent romantic chemistry with the much-older Jack, as Kate Mulgrew did.

 

My issue with the Dakota character (and admittedly I was not watching the show much at the time) was that Johnny would never have a son with a foolish soap opera name like “Dakota.”

13 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

How was the Dakota Smith character received back in the day? He wasn't a Labine/Mayer creation, was he? After watching the episodes rerun on SoapNet and what's out there on YouTube, I couldn't imagine Johnny stepping out on Maeve. I can't imagine the audience did, either.

I think the disconnect for Dakota's introduction was the de-evolution of the character of Jill.  Jill had a bout of amnesia when she met Dakota, which in typical soap style caused her to change her hair and wardrobe, rather than seek medical intervention.  A later version of the same plot was attempted on GH when Felicia hooked up with Decker Moss.  The result was that both women looked foolish to fans.  Jill was a sophisticated Manhattan attorney, why would she suddenly wish to run around with a perm and ripped jeans? 

 

The idea that a professional woman fantasizes about escaping her work responsibilities by living on a boat in the Hudson River was not appealing then or now; and seems a little anti-feminist in retrospect.

Edited December 17, 20204 yr by j swift

Even if you hated what Dakota meant for Johnny and Jill, there's no denying the character fueled storyline for the Ryans. Dakota's arrival put the family front-and-center again and created conflict for the shows' most beloved couples -- Maeve and Johnny and Frank And Jill. And Dakota was also the perfect partner in crime for both Maggie and Delia.  

 

Chris Durham did a great job with the role. Dakota was a good stretch after being John Conboy's hunk-of-the-month on Capitol.  Would be great to hear from Chris about his time on RH.

 

 

Edited December 17, 20204 yr by gimmetoo

 

On 12/14/2020 at 10:42 PM, DeliaIrisFan said:

I'm probably the only one who cares, but I wish he had been asked to speak about what, if anything, he knew/remembered of the original plans for the aftermath of the Charlotte Greer/McCurtain story that first introduced his rendition of Frank. 

I was hoping the Charlotte Greer story would come up as well, given that it's the story I associate most closely with Geoff Pierson's Frank. I love the not-insubstantial amount of material that's available from that period on YouTube, but it would be fascinating to find out what was intended to be the outcome aside from the wedding of Frank and Jill.

 

In general, I wanted to hear a little more about how the actors felt about the various writing regime changes over the years (particularly IK and MG since they experienced most/all of them), though I realize that's not an area Alan usually wants to probe on these shows.

 

12 hours ago, amybrickwallace said:

Thank you, @Sean. Maybe RH would have brought Dakota back (with or without Christopher Durham) at some point had they not been cancelled.

 

It’s a little surprising they didn’t bring him back for the final weeks of the show given the prominent role he had played, though I can’t see either Roger/Delia or Jack/Leigh being especially eager to invite him to their weddings.

 

57 minutes ago, j swift said:

I think the disconnect for Dakota's introduction was the de-evolution of the character of Jill.  Jill had a bout of amnesia when she met Dakota, which in typical soap style caused her to change her hair and wardrobe, rather than seek medical intervention.  A later version of the same plot was attempted on GH when Felicia hooked up with Decker Moss.  The result was that both women looked foolish to fans.  Jill was a sophisticated Manhattan attorney, why would she suddenly wish to run around with a perm and ripped jeans? 

 

  It’s funny—in writing my post last night, I’d basically blocked out the role Jill’s amnesia and her becoming “Sara Jane” played in all of this. Totally agree that this was a dumb development, made only worse by the fact that the writers had already leaned on amnesia as a plot point earlier that same year when Katie Thompson couldn’t remember the circumstances around her being pushed down a flight of stairs by Maggie. Given how fraught Frank and Jill’s relationship was throughout 1984-5, there should have been another, less clichéd way for the show to have Dakota cause a rift between them.

7 hours ago, j swift said:

I think the disconnect for Dakota's introduction was the de-evolution of the character of Jill.  Jill had a bout of amnesia when she met Dakota, which in typical soap style caused her to change her hair and wardrobe, rather than seek medical intervention.  A later version of the same plot was attempted on GH when Felicia hooked up with Decker Moss.  The result was that both women looked foolish to fans.  Jill was a sophisticated Manhattan attorney, why would she suddenly wish to run around with a perm and ripped jeans? 

 

The idea that a professional woman fantasizes about escaping her work responsibilities by living on a boat in the Hudson River was not appealing then or now; and seems a little anti-feminist in retrospect.

 

 

In one of Nancy's final RH interviews  (Having Portrayed RYAN'S HOPE'S Jillian Ryan For Over a Decade, Nancy Addison Says Good-Bye / Soap Opera Digest/  December 15, 1987 ) -- Nancy said her favorites were Jill's bout with amnesia and the morphine addiction storylines.

 

I wonder if it Nancy liked the amnesia because it gave her something different to play

In a way, Jillian's amnesia was even stupider than that [!@#$%^&*] between Delia and the gorilla.

How did Jill get amnesia?  I think it would have worked if it were psychological.  That life as Jill became so painful that she created a new life/persona.  Losing a child, being in an emotional toxic relationship with Frank, etc.  Would have been plausible 

I liked Mary Carney as Mary, but my favorite recast was Kathleen Ryan Tolan.    I adored her portrayal of Mary.

 

Mary Carney was very refreshing.   She reminded me of the young Debbie Reynolds, and I was sad to see her departure, even though I liked her replacement better.

 

I HATED Nicholette Goulet in the role!