Santa Barbara Discussion Thread

[Khan]

I wondered whether his SaBa opening was going to be like the one he premiered on OLTL, with pictures of cast members sets against shots of the real-life Santa Barbara.

Edited January 15 by Khan

[chrisml]

I'm also surprised they never changed the opening but I suppose it saved them money since they never had to update cast photos like other soaps. 

[Liberty City]

31 years ago the series finale aired. Shame.

I think, if anything, debuting new scenic shots would've been cool.

[BetterForgotten]

Watching that finale always makes my blood boil at what the show had dissolved into - largely a dumping ground for once popular stars from other soaps who couldn’t make it in primetime/film. The whole thing just felt so soulless with the only slight highlight being Julia and Mason. Pam Long and her sensibilities were not the correct fit for this type of show. I am also shocked at the budget the show still had for being such a low rated soap. 

Has it ever been said why the Dobson’s stepped down as HW’s before New World/NBC locked them out and after they were allowed to return? I know attempting to fire Anne Howard Bailey was what triggered the initial mess in the first place - but why did they step down as HWs and then again when they finally returned? 

[Sapounopera]

The opening was the only thing left as a reminder of which soap was on.

The problemn with SB was that it was a product of the 80s. Supercouple mania with a Dynasty vibe. They tried to move on to the 90s with Pamela Long, but it was not the right way. I find her work on this show horrible.

[kalbir]

100% this. The whole show embodied all the 1980s trends.

[dc11786]

I think "Santa Barbara" in the first episodes ooze potential that seems to get lost among the weeds of poor casting, backstage influences, and a series of rewrites. 

I'm rewatching the second week. My initial reaction was wow there is a lot of time spent on this younger set in scenes of just them that are quite awful. Though, pulling back some, other things come into view. Knowing now that the Dobsons were originally planning to have Warren Lockridge be the murderer, the whole dynamic in these early episodes shifts. In particular, the Jade / Warren scenario comes off as even more delicious.

Melissa (Brennan) Reeves is miscast as Jade, without a doubt. I think they should have straightened her hair and made her Laken. Jade fascinates me. The working class girl coming of age in a world of privileged and elite young men and women who are use to getting whatever they want. Jade, too, has learned to do that with her body. Yet, she isn't just a cut and paste vixen. Jade's relationship with both her father and her brother are complex in what I've seen. Pretty smoothly, Jade is able to coax her father into letting her go to Hollywood by buttering him up, not unlike the way she does to the beach crowd. She also is fiercely protective of Joe. Watching Jade go after Warren is delighful because he is in fact the murderer and the reason her brother went to jail. 

With this scenario in mind (Warren as the murderer), the younger set becomes dramatically more interesting in the long term. Eventually, a Lockridge will be revealed to have killed a Capwell meaning that Laken Lockridge and Ted Capwell's love will be tested. Given the return of Sophia, the Hollywood starlet, on the horizon, and Jade's intense desire to become an actress, the obvious next stage is Ted and Jade once Warren has been outed as the murderer and Joe has been cleared of the crime. Ted and Jade now threatens every dynamic in the younger set: Ted/Laken, Laken/Jade, Jade/Danny, and Danny/Ted. Also, Danny and Ted would have also have had to survive the inevitable revelation that knowledge of the existence of  Santana and Channing's child would shake the foundations of the ties between the Capwell and Andrade clans. 

I see Jade becoming deeply attached to Sophia and there being shades of an 'All About Eve' style plot with Sophia pushing Ted towards Jade because of the animosity among the Lockridges and the Capwells, while C.C. struggling with his feelings about the family now that Joe has been revealed to be innocent. Danny and Laken would more than likely grow closer (as I suspect, in the intersecting story, we would see Ruben and Rosa leave C.C.'s employ to go work for the Lockridges, because you know that's a boss move that I could see Minx and Augusta finding common ground on). With the inevitable staging of a movie that Lionel would secretly finance and Sophia and Jade would star in with Danny possibly involved in stunts. 

This casual Hollywood fluff is fun, but it would be a nice counter balance if the show was in the midst of strong high drama, which is potentially there but just never hitting the mark.  The murder mystery stuff is hit or miss. I often wonder how Dominic/Sophia is accomplishing some of this. I know she has a partner in crime, but is she dressing in other outfits to sneak into the police station and such? Joe trying to clear his name, while also being in love with Kelly seems very generic at times. Witherspoon and Wright have chemistry. I don't necessarily hate Kelly and Joe, but I wish there were deeper layers to each character. Marissa Perkins keeps saying Joe has changed. I wish Joe was more hostile and deeply jaded by his prison experience and that Kelly's engagement was driving that rage that would let the audience think that maybe he did in fact kill Channing. I do like that the Joe / Kelly relationship is more complicated. Kelly is trying to move on, but it's clear she can't. There was a nice Rosa/Kelly scene where Rosa gets her to admit she isn't completely over her first love (it's also wild when young consider a counterpoint scene is Santana going off on her own to Acapulco to track down her stolen child while her mother plays sounding board to the white princess she raised when the girl's own mother abandoned her). 

Anyway, the real triangle of interest that seems to be brewing for Joe is that between Joe and Augusta Lockridge with Marissa Perkins in the wings as the antagoinst. Marissa is such a hovering presence in Joe's love life. Trashing the picture of Kelly, pushing her own husband out of the house (and her bed) to protect her Joey. I wish Armstrong leaned into that psycho-sexual dynamic that seems to be in the undercurrent of the writing. 

As I believe I said before, I believe the next stage of the Augusta/Joe/Marissa story would have been Joe ending his relationship with Augusta and her hooking up with Joe's father, John Perkins. I think if they played the Augusta / Marissa dynamic early with Marissa wanting Augusta to keep her hands off her man (Joe) would have given Louise Sorel some chances for some delicious pre-Sophia tongue lashings. Given that Joe commented that John wanted to make Joe into the man John never got to be, hence John's deep hurt at Joe becoming a murderer, adds more sense to not only Marissa desire for Joe (the version of her husband that she fell in love with but who John never truly was) but also the sexual rivalry between father and son as John is envious of Joe's potential as a man that he no longer has. Joe would have won Marissa, but I could see John winning Augusta in the sexual sense with John/Augusta bringing out resentment from both Joe and Marissa. Obviously, for this to work, both John and Marissa would have required stronger actors or at least more appealing in John's case. 

My other missed opportunity on this round of viewing involves Peter Flint. I think Peter Flint should have been a real person that Stephen Meadows' Antonio Fiorno was impersonating. If Antonio/Peter had married Kelly, then been killed they could have brought in the real Peter down the line to at least provide a silly legal obstacle to Kelly and Joe's marriage plans. Though I would have Kelly and realPeter bound over how they were victims of Peter's and having Kelly lean emotionally on the real Peter while Joe is busy caught up in some other plot (ideally, I think I would have Joe pursuing a law degree which could allow him to have Julia as a law professor). Of course, I probably would also want Joe raising faux Peter's baby as well, but I think I mentioned that in my last rant about the potential of this story.  

It's a shame that the show abandons the Santana plot because it is probably my favorite. Santana is fierce and takes no grief from anyone. Her handling of Ramirez is beautiful. Her persistent attacks on C.C. are wonderful. Her devotion to Channing is admirable. She isn't moving on. He is the love of her life. It's a very interesting contrast to Kelly who has abandoned Joe for Peter. I can see what they are trying to do with C.C. and Santana, possibly better because I could see how they were doing it in 1991. The bond is about shared grief and access to a child that unites them. 

I feel like there is the bones of some great conflict as the Andrades come to terms with the role C.C. has played in keeping their grandchild away from them. Rosa and Santana are both determined to keep Ruben from finding out. His knowledge of the child is presented as a great threat to the family's happiness. I would love to see this all play out, but I don't believe it does. I think Rosa coming to terms with her role in the family drama would also be worth seeing. Her loyalty has come at a price that might be too high for even her. 

Mason is just a great character and slowly you can see the layers unraveling. Mason shows up to a party for Peter, who seems to be the perfect blond haired replacement for Channing, hosted by C.C. Peter cannot attend as he is recupeating from a polo accident. Mason becomes the secondary guest of honor with C.C. toasting about his predictions about his son's political career with a slip of the tongue calling Mason Channing. It's a very raw moment, maybe too simple, that just makes it clear the dynamic between the two. Mason will never be Channing. To top it off, there is a great little line about Mason's date, Patricia Hampton (played by one of the stars of the American "Prisoner" show "Dangerous Women), a file clerk at town hall. She isn't one of Channing's type of women, which I wonder if this was intentional given the later revelation about his sexuality. 

The potential in these early episodes could have developed into a show with the roots that would have survived the back to realism 1990s if it had found an audience. Though, I feel the same way about the first few years of "Loving."

[Liberty City]

I fully blame this on the creatives for multiple reasons. Between the unnecessary recasts (all of which lessened the role and its core quality), and not taking a Hispanic family seriously, it failed Santana and the Andrades in the long-run.

[Paul Raven]

@dc11786 another great analysis. The Dobsons had a template in place when the show started but quickly began tossing characters and actors which immediately gave the show a transient feel that it never shook.

Obviously plans change once things play out onscreen but I think they were too hasty to drop families (Perkins/Andrades) and focus on the rich folks. A contrast with lower socio- economic people would have been more interesting. 

As you said the light hearted teen stories were a bust. Maybe those characters could have been back burnered for a bit and some recast if necessary. Maybe they were too hasty to ditch them - many a performer has improved over time.

Brain Frons was NBC daytime chief at the time and commissioned SB I think and we know how he operates-very 'hands on'. Perhaps the Dobsons were out of their depth having complete control  and too ready to give into NBC's demands. Who knows?

A pity that in time some of those characters were not brought back rather than the constant onslaught of new short lived characters. But that's a far too common story on all shows.

The Perkins were dead and buried but the Andrades could have been rebuilt around Rosa and Santana. Weren't the a couple of other siblings mentioned in the bible and early episodes?

[Jdee43]

It's too bad the Dobsons didn't stick with their original vision. They changed things pretty quickly. I'd say by week 5, with the coming of Lionel, a lot of the potential of the first few weeks was gone, especially with Augusta.

Watching the first 5 months of the show, John Allen Nelson's Warren has grown on me. He definitely has some of the mannerisms and looks of Nicholas Coster. Nelson should have been kept on the show its entire run. 

Julie Ronnie as Laken has done the opposite for me. She's terrible and seems to get worse. Episodes 103 and 104 are examples; she's so hyper and shrill, and is mispronouncing words like "circumstantial." What was she on? It's so embarrassing. It's hard to believe Ronnie outlasted Ava Lazar and Melissa Reeves on this show.

Edited January 22 by Jdee43

[Ryan Mason]

There were times where it seemed like her dialogue was just endless variations on her whining "Teeedddd!" or "Motherrrrrrr!" 

[Sapounopera]

Wow, your Santa Barbara is fascinating. It almost reads like an East Coast soap. Perhaps that was the show's real problem. It was not meant to be as "simple" and one-dimensional as it ended up being.  

[1974mdp]

There were a couple of other daughters for Rosa and Rueben. He mentions them in one very early episode. I want to say that one daughter was name Gabriella, and Rueben complained that she was always talking on the phone with her friends. The show could have easily rebuilt the Andrade family. I think they sort of began that in the early 90s when Santana and Rosa came back, but apparently Wanda DeJesus was not well-liked. They should have just brought back GG.

In the early 90s, I think aging Brandon a bit with an actor who could actually pass as part-Latino would have been the right way to start a new teen set. Brandon could have been torn between living in the privileged Capwell world and getting to know his Andrade side.

I've been rewatching the first 100 episodes which I haven't seen since I was a kid. A lot of the material is ROUGH and pretty boring, but there are highlights and hints at things to come. I find Lionel and Augusta's marriage truly fascinating and a breath of fresh air. Cruz is such a great character from the get-go. Mason's dialogue is sharp witted for the beginning.

The quickly changing CCs is like whiplash though. I'd forgotten all about CC #2. Blink, and you'll miss him! The first two definitely didn't vibe in the role though.

Recasting Joe just to kill him off so soon after feels not well thought out. I'm sure Joe was thought to be the lead hero long-term. Although, Cruz rightly so took that role later. The whole show practically revolves around Joe at first, and DW is pretty good. Any intel on why they let him go as well? And, Joe's death pretty much ends the Perkins family. Although, we know Amy sticks around for a bit.

A big head scratcher for me is why they let Ava Lazar go. Does anyone have any details? She's stunning and has great chemistry with everyone...even all the CCs! She really works as Santana, and the character is complex and well-rounded with a very specific goal for her character.

Also, the actor who plays Danny is actually a highlight of the silly teen stories. He has great comedic timing and would have worked well once the show leaned more into comedy. Poor Laken and Jade are just dreadfully annoying. They never seemed to get the casting of Laken right throughout the whole show. The first Laken just comes across as...boring and interchangeable. The whole Romeo/Juliet warring families was a good idea, but they needed a stronger actress. Yet, they keep JR for like a year when they drop others!

Sophia wears her Dominic man drag for way too long. I don't understand why she still tries to do the "male voice" with Joe even though he knows she's a woman, and she knows that he knows! All that make-up for Dominic must have been so uncomfortable.

Robin Wright comes off as very green at first IMO, but she eventually blossoms in the role.

I'm up to where the earthquake is about to happen.

Edited January 23 by 1974mdp

[Sapounopera]

I adored Ava Lazar. She was leading lady material. The other Santanas not so much. Although I must admit that I found Wanda de Jesus a strong presence.

Gina's entire arch could/should have been given to Santana. 

[Keri]

I've recently rewatched those eps, too. LD was definitely one of the highlights for me. He is just so great right from the get go, whether he is sniping at Peter, or going at it with CC. Also enjoy some of the scenes with him and MW when she comes.

But watching him really lay it on the line once CC turns on him, LD acting against Bateman, just makes Bateman seem even more stiff.

Agreed on Sophia in that disguise for far too long.

The stuff with Eden and Lionel is just bizarre. Some of it makes sense bc they both are thinking about Sophia, but some of it is just weird.