Santa Barbara Discussion Thread

[Soaplovers]

9 1/2 weeks would have been a good template for a story on santa Barbara... usually the dominant one in an s and m relationship is dominant in their day to day life...and vice versa.  But that sometimes they can get out of hand.

 

Based on my personal.experience, plus studying the concept in school...keith and Gina wouldn't be a good candidate for it...and the show would turn it into a joke instead of doing an in-depth study of it.

 

I don't know of a character where that would have worked on....maybe Angela Raymond (came on in 1991). 

[Wendy]

 

Flame Beaufort seemed like she'd be up for it. But Michael (whom she was involved with), not so much. Can't think of a male character that would have matched her.

[Soaplovers]

I forgot about Flame!!!

 

Quinn

[amybrickwallace]

 

You're right...but only as played by Roberta Bizeau.

[Wendy]

 

Oh, right! Almost forgot the hideous 2-second recast after Bizeau left.

[amybrickwallace]

 

Does anyone know why they recast Flame?

[Wendy]

 

All I recall is Roberta Bizeau left rather suddenly, so maybe they wanted to finish her story.

[amybrickwallace]

 

That makes sense. Thanks!

[KateW]

25 years ago today

 

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Part 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnRnzcCYNBs

 

Part 3: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ctc3anVIh08

 

Part 4: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqAGNUy7epU

 

Part 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KwoZYpQ2zLQ

 

[j swift]

I'm having so much fun re-watching the episodes being currently uploaded from the summer of 1985.  It has inspired a couple of thoughts from the era:

 

1). Maggie the Cop is not given much to do but I like her non-sexual/cop/buddy relationship with Cruz, it is shame that she will disappear. 

2).  I forgot how long it was until Jed Allen and Robin Mattson appear.  Before them, CC and Gina are so mean and filled with anxiety.  However, the scene when Gina berates Eden for making CC stay alone after Sofia followed by Eden's revelation that Brandon is CC's grandson is great.  I like the characterization that Eden was always a little bitchy, Cruz softened her but, she reverted to type when threatened.  Early CC and Gina weren't great but they brought out a lot of good stuff in other characters.

3). Thank goodness the writers created Julia for Augusta to talk to, in this episode she was having lunch with Laken and Jade!  No wonder Augusta got so bored waiting for Lionel to return; she had no friends, she had major mother-in-law issues, and she clearly did not enjoy the ocean.

4.)  One year in and although they still haven't solved Channing's murder a lot happens in every episode.

Edited January 15, 2018 by j swift

[robbwolff]

I thought Channing’s murder was wrapped up in May 1985. That was when Julia was introduced.

[dc11786]

 

I really like Maggie, too. I’ve been dipping into “Santa Barbara” a bit lately. I do love a lot of the 1984 episodes, but I understand why people say 1985 was the start of a stronger show. Suzanne Marshall is very engaging in her role. Her introduction during the standoff at the Perkins house was interesting. I thought it was clever to transition Warren from Elizabeth Peale to Maggie by having them in the same hospital room. I was a bit underwhelmed by Maggie’s explanation of becoming a cop though I thought the explanation was interesting, in theory, but I wanted more exploration of Maggie’s life prior to appearing on the scene. I haven’t been watching anywhere in order so maybe there is hope that she does go further into her pre-SB life.

It’s funny, but not having seen much of Jed Allan as C.C. I struggle to see him handling the revelation about Channing, Jr.’s murder. I’ve come to appreciate what Charles Bateman has brought to the role, a tyrant haunted by the past. I’m hoping that Allan is able to capture some of those qualities. Similarly, I find Linda Gibboney’s Gina a fascinating neurotic, a victim who seems unable to rise above the circumstances she has been given. I snickered at the scene where Mason and Gina are discussing her pregnancy ploy and how Mason blackmails Gina into taking dictation for him. The scenes in the tunnel with Hank Judson are heartbreaking especially as they haven’t ignored the Summer connection. The writing for Gina must evolve at some point. In the performances I’ve seen, Mattson always seems to be playing Gina as constantly scheming. You can always see the wheels turning in Gina’s head (why the other characters don’t see it is a mystery to me).

I think it’s a testament to Louise that Augusta survived the initial purge because, as you say, Augusta doesn’t always seem to have much to do or many to talk to. The banter between Sorel and Coster, and moreso Sorel and Dame Judith Anderson, is gold, but Augusta’s world seems so small. I do love that they included her in the big Channing, Jr., murder reveal scenes. Her perspective gave the fallout some real tension and some stakes that would have been desperately missing if she wasn’t present. There are also some wonderful earlier scenes where Augusta and C.C. are watching Sophia and Lionel through the mirror in the Capwell suite (what a wonderful plot device that was). I love that they let Augusta’s mind go to the worse possible place (that Lionel and Sophia have been carrying on for years during Sophia’s years away).

 

 

The reveal about Channing’s murder happens in May 31 and June 1, 1985 episodes. When I was watching them, I went back to see if they fell during sweeps. Even though they resolve Channing’s murder, there are still lots of secrets about Channing that haven’t been revealed yet by that point. The Lindsay / Channing secret isn’t revealed to C.C. until August and neither is the paternity secret. Surprisingly, both seem to happen in the same week. The baby switch secret isn’t revealed until December 1985 / January 1986. 

[j swift]

It is currently right before the tunnel explosion which brings Julia to town - that was probably in spring 1985.

I recall the denouement of Maggie the Cop is in August.

 

It is worth noting that Charles Bateman got some of the great material despite his OTT performance.  His diatribe toward Mason when he finds out that Channing was gay and his stuff with Gina prior to the wedding are examples of great writing. 

 

I continue to find fault with most of the Capwell female characters.  There is very little differentiation between Kelly and Eden.  Also, Sofia can't decide if she is going to be cold object of longing for Lionel & CC or a warm caring mother to Ted. 

 

Finally, I enjoy all of the tidbits that didn't get explored such as the idea that Gina and Santana were friends prior to 1984.

[dc11786]

 

I'm pretty sure that the tunnel explosion was in April, 1985. I remember looking it up because I know Victor Bevine (Hank) was also on "The Catlins," which ended in May 1985. There was most likely a period of time where he, and his cast mate David Haskell, appeared on both series at once. 

 

As I've said, I've been bouncing around and mainly focusing on Channing material and whatever else catches my fancy at the moment. The reveal about Channing and Lindsay is very well done. A lot of under the surface writing with Lindsay, who claims he is straight and seeing someone, but then seems to admit that he was hurt that he was spurned by Channing. I thought Cruz's response to it all was actually really refreshing; not really placing any judgement on the relationship, but focused on learning what role Lindsay played in the drama.

 

Lindsay fascinates me. I realize he is only a bit player, but I wish they had revisited him. The Dobsons have donated their papers to the University of Wisconsin, and, among their SB papers, was a bit of information about AIDS. Bridget Dobson states that NBC (Brian Frons, in particular) wanted them to write an AIDS storyline into the show as part of the network's agreement to air the series. The Dobsons didn't want to do it, but, to appease Frons, they planned a storyline where Mother Isabel, Mary Duvall's superior at the convent, would succumb to the disease. Dobson said she thought it was the least threatening way to handle it. NBC eventually caved, and I'm not even sure the show even hinted at the story. I sort of wish they pushed the envelope and had Lindsay Smith return to town in 1986 with the disease. Rejected by friends and family, Sophia would offer to take him into the Capwell mansion during his final days. I think it would allow Sophia the chance to learn more about Channing, a young man she had believed was her son. On the other hand, they could have just kept Lindsay around in a recurring role without his sexuality being a major issue until they wanted it to be one. 

 

Regarding the Capwell sisters, I don't feel they are well developed. I really liked when the East coast Capwells arrived in time for Mason and Santana's aborted wedding. Initially, both Madeline and Courtney seemed so fun and carefree. Even when Madeline showed herself to be an uptight socialite, the characterization at least provided the show with a relevant level of snobbery that was needed in a world of haves and have nots. For the life of me, I cannot figure out how you bring on John Considine as Grant Capwell for a handful of episodes only to quickly write him out. The only thing I can surmise is that the show wanted to do something with Grant and Augusta, but Louise Sorel left. Yet, with this show, squandered opportunities were plentiful so its entirely possible that Grant was always intended to be a blimp on the radar. 

 

In what I've seen, Kelly is very generic. Robin Wright is strong, but the writing doesn't really doesn't give her any shades. The pregnancy ploy during the standoff with Peter Flint is interesting, but I couldn't help but wonder if it wouldn't have been more interesting to actually go there. C.C. was determined to have a grandchild and having Kelly having Peter's baby, and passing it off Joe's, may have given some more layers to Kelly. Eden's relationship with Sophia fascinated me. The level of vitriol that Eden uses to attack Sophia when she is masquerading as the Suzanne Carlyle, the reporter, is shocking when compared to the level of compassion Eden feels for Sophia when Sophia is unmasked as the killer. Eden begging Sophia not to leave them and revert to her damaged psyche is a really well done sequence. I thought Cruz's decision about whether or not to turn in Sophia provided Eden and Cruz a real natural conflict highlighting a lot of Eden and Cruz's flaws (Eden raised entitled and above any rules beyond her own and Cruz being honest to a fault without often considering the impact those laws would have on others). 

 

I didn't know Santana and Gina had a history prior to Gina's arrival in Santa Barbara. The relationship between Santana and Gina should have driven story for years. I really love Ava Lazar's Santana. Not always the strongest actress, but strong enough to not laugh during the sequence when Paul Burke as C.C. believes Santana is in love for him for him, not because she is trying to locate her son. Santana was such a wonderful character with a rich backstory. The potential of an ongoing quad between Mason, Santana, C.C., and Gina intrigues me. I wonder how Sophia was suppose to play into this, at least originally. I imagine she was suppose to be a spoiler to both this story as well as Lionel and Augusta. 

[j swift]

 

First, if you have reviewed the Dobson's library archives then bravo; that is a source rarely used in forum discussions. 

 

Second, I whole-heartedly agree with you on the Lindsay points.  It is remarkable how tolerant the writing is around the reveal and everyone's response.  I appreciated that both Cruz and CC were respectful.  It is the only time that I remember sexuality being used as a red herring in soap history.

Re-watching Kelly drives me nuts.  Her defining characteristic is that she is beautiful.   At least once a week someone comments on Kelly's beauty.  Men fall literally madly in love with her.  However, she is merely an object.  She expresses no personal desires, drives or beliefs. 

 

I think the same thing!  At the Gina/CC wedding, Gina tells Eden she is at fault that CC never dated after Sofia left him.  We are also told that Eden wanted to take Channing's place in the company and her father's heart.  However, none of that actually happens.  CC never really has to depend on Eden for the company and Eden never seems to really be driven by CC's approval. 

 

I also agree that the one thing that would have differentiated Kelly and Eden is if they had different responses to the Sofia reveal.  The stage was set for Eden to be mad and vindictive.  There could have been years of drama with Eden in the executive suite at Capwell versus Sofia at Armante.  Instead, Eden and Kelly's responses are barely explored before a trauma cements their newfound relationship with Sofia.   Then, right before Eden leaves she realizes that she was angry the whole time?

 

Eden/Gina scene before the wedding when Eden reveals that Brandon is CC's grandson she refers to Santana as Gina's old friend; although she may be using it colloquially.

 

 

Finally, can someone comment on the Lilly Light character?  The timing of her birth makes no sense with the eventual adoption of Brandon.  The switch from con-man to ingenue seems to occur both times that the character is introduced.  She is old enough when she is first introduced to be a romantic interest for Mason although Gina, Santana and CC Jr were about five years younger than Mason?  Did Summer or Haley know about Lilly?  I think she would have been more plausible (and served the same story purpose) if she was Stockman Demott's kid and GIna's stepdaughter.

Edited January 16, 2018 by j swift