Sunset Beach Discussion Thread

[j swift]

In retrospect, one of my main problems with Sunset Beach was the lack of integration of characters.  When a soap is named after the town in which the characters live, that town should play a central role in the interactions of the characters.  However, in Sunset Beach there were a wide swath of people who seemed to never meet each other.  The soap became known for its large set devices like the earthquake and the sinking boat but, even within those plots there were characters that never shared dialogue. 

 

Some of the examples that come to mind are Cole and the other male characters his age.  Cole seemed to exist on a island all of his own and mostly shared scenes with his wife and mother-in-law.  Cole never spoke to Mark, Casey, or Michael.  I have no memory of what his relationship was like with Ben and I barely recall any scenes between Cole and Annie.  Similarly, Meg, (who was arguably the lead character), seemed to have no defined relationship with Caitlin, (the secondary lead).  I think they were both on the boat that sank, but I don't remember if they liked each other or if Meg judged Caitlin for her baby switch.

 

It seemed like a bad structure for a new soap that the writers never explored the various relationships around town, or even had people comment on the other plots going on around them.  There were days when it felt as if you were tuning into a totally different show because nobody was mentioning what was happening in the news to the other people who lived in this small beach town.  If you read about early Pine Valley or Bay City, there were always connections between the families in town.  Even though there were strict socioeconomic divisions in Landview, you got the sense that Viki knew what going on around her.  The characters in Sunset Beach might as well have lived in different countries because their actions rarely affected the lives of others in their community, and for me, that is heart and soul of a soap town.    

[te.]

 

True. I think that could've been solved to have more of them live on that beach front walk where Ben and Annie (/Bette) lived and have locations such as Elaine's pancake house closer in proximity. Ultimately, there didn't seem to be a central "hub" where the characters could naturally intersect with each other like the square in Peyton Place as an example; it never seemed very natural for let's say the Richards to head to the Elaine's pancake hut and of course older characters hanging out in Ben's club wouldn't have been very natural either.

[pdm1974]

As much as I loved Another World, I did find it curious that NBC didn't schedule Santa Barbara or Sunset Beach after their top ratings getter. The post-AW timeslot was an extra tough one.

[Soaplovers]

 

I didn't mind the lack of interaction because it's realistic.  Some soaps (like ATWT in the Marland era) had too much interaction.  On the one hand, when characters did end up interacting..it was a welcome surprise and would led to new stories. 

 

I was pleasantly surprised when Annie and Caitlin started interacting...and it led to some good storylines with Annie/Gregory/Olivia.  And Sean Kanan's character came on in the last few months..and was tested with Sara, Caitlin, and Annie..and had scenes with Casey/Cole.  So it seemed like the show was starting to correct it.

 

On the other hand, I do wish Virginia had been allowed to mix it up with other characters.  She had some interaction with Gabi and Casey..but she was islanded off by herself unless it was with Michael and Vanessa.

 

And I think bringing Maria back helped with bridging the gap since she was friends with Annie, married to Ben, was related to Ricardo/Antonio, knew the Richards, etc.

[Ben]

They shared loads of scenes - after all, they did live in the same house.

 

Meg was promoted as the lead female, but I think Annie was the lead character. She interacted with the majority of the cast, and had the most storylines. I think that meant Meg was the secondary lead, not Caitlin. Caitlin was on par with Gabi. 
 

Meg and Caitlin weren’t on the sinking ship together. But I have a vague recollection of Meg giving her condolences after Gregory “died”. They were acquaintances at best.
 

Cole shared scenes with Olivia, Caitlin, Gregory, Annie, Bette, AJ, Francesca, Sean, Ricardo, Antonio, Elaine...

 

A few scenes with Bernie, Hilary, Philip, Gabi, Paula, Tyus, Michael, Casey, Amy, Brad...
 

I do agree with your overall point. In some way it felt believable that not all of the characters would interact given they came from different socioeconomic backgrounds. The Richards were rich and unlikely to want to hang with the Surf Central gang, so it made sense that Cole and Caitlin rarely interacted with Casey, et al. But I don’t think they made the most of the big set pieces, like the earthquake/tsunami, in mixing up the interactions for those moments. 
 

The Richards (who are the equivalent to OLTL’s Viki) were too self absorbed to care about what was going on in the town. No way would Gregory and Olivia give a damn about Vanessa losing her baby, or Casey and Sara getting stranded on an island, or Derek abducting Meg. They only cared about what affected their children or the business/property that Gregory owned. I have a vague reference of Caitlin passing comment on Vanessa and Michael’s break up, mostly in relation to her own life. 
 

Yeah, Virginia had some interaction with the Surf Central gang (Casey, Gabi, Meg, Antonio, Mark...), but the majority of the time it was always with Michael, Vanessa, and Tyus. It would have been great to see her mix it up more regularly with the others, but in what capacity I’m not sure.

 

I really disliked that pairing. Jude and Sara had no chemistry and felt so mismatched. 
 

Speaking of Sara: she really should have had more crossover with Annie given what she did to Meg, and Sara was a feisty, confrontational character, so it would have been believable.

[te.]

 

I think there were ways to "force" more interactions with certain characters - like Caitlin could've gone to school with some of the characters in her age group, certainly one of the Surf Central gang at least.  Vanessa could've been more of a scandal/tabloid reporter, giving her a reason to interact with the wealthy Richards', certainly cover stuff like the Derek saga, she could've written a story about Maria giving her an in to interact more with Meg / the Torres family etc etc. Granted, maybe some of this stuff did happen - I only have the broadest sense of what happened on the show as I haven't really watched it since it aired except for an episode here and there.

 

Either way, more could've been done with the interactions I think, but I also think it was missing that central hub where all characters from all backgrounds could bump into each other.

Edited September 17, 2020 by te.

[amybrickwallace]

Didn't the show have a cyber cafe at the beginning?

[Manny]

Well in the beginning of the show, I think they tried to intermingle the cast more. Vanessa, Gabi and Meg were shown as friends. I remember them even singing "Stop in the name of love" together at the bar, like karaoke fun night together.

 

And yes, I believe there was a cyber cafe.. Java cafe? 

[te.]

 

Yes, I mean, the initial plot of the show was Meg running around looking for her internet buddy, so of course they had one.

[amybrickwallace]

Java Cafe...that's right. Thanks, guys!! ☺

[Manny]

Yeah, she was Dorothy and Ben was S.B. Initially she thought it was Casey, before realizing it was Ben. 

[Ben]

Here’s a Q&A with one of Sunset Beach’s scriptwriters (Lisa Seidman) that I have found. The interview was conducted by the fans at the forum an-eternal-sunset.heavenforum.org (all credit to them).

 

1. How do writers work?
That depends on the writer and the show the writer is working on.  If you mean specifically a show like Sunset Beach there were five writers who wrote outlines and five writers who wrote scripts. The outline writers worked with the head writers.  They came into the office/studio once or twice a week.  The script editors wrote at home.

 

2. Were there groups of writers assigned to specific characters/storylines?
No.  All the writers had to be able to write all the characters and all the storylines.

 

3. Was there a showrunner of some sorts who gave a global direction to the show?
Yes.  In daytime soaps the showrunner is called the head writer.  We had several head writers, starting with Bob Guza/Meg Bennett, then Chris Whitesell/Meg, then finally Chris/Maggie de Priest.

 

4. What was the pace of work? How much time did you have before sending scripts to the actors?
We had to write five or six episodes every week.  The outline writers had about two and a half days to write their outlines and the scriptwriters had seven days to write the scripts.  Then the scripts went to the script editor who took a week to edit five scripts (sometimes less).  The actors didn’t get the scripts until close to taping: Usually a month after the scripts were turned in.  

 

5. Did you have much freedom? How much did the execs meddle in with your writing?
The outline writers had freedom to pitch ideas when they met with the head writers to discuss the week of stories.  The head writers had the power to use the ideas or not.  
The scriptwriters had the freedom to create dialogue.  For instance, when I was a scriptwriter, I received an outline.  There was a scene that read, “Casey learns his mother has come for a visit.”  That was it.  As the scriptwriter I invented the scene, giving it substance: Casey sees suitcases by the stairs when he comes home, a woman comes downstairs, they talk and at the end of the scene I reveal that it’s Casey’s mother.  
The executives meddled A LOT with the outlines.  It was very frustrating.  Some weeks they’d throw out an entire week of outlines and the head writers would have to create new stories for that week.  The executives also gave notes on each outline, so the outline writers would then have to rewrite their outlines according to the executives’ notes.  

 

6. Were there specific ideas that got rejected by the execs? Can you give us some examples?
There were specific ideas that were rejected but, unfortunately, I can’t give you specifics because I don’t remember what was rejected.  

 

7.  Which characters did you enjoy working on the most?
Annie.

 

8. Did the actors know in advance what would happen to their character of did they just find out as they got the scripts?
They just found out as they got the scripts. 

 

9. Were the actors able to give ideas about the future of their characters ? Did some of them influence the storylines? Some examples?
The actors were not allowed to give ideas, they were not allowed to influence their storylines.  

 

10. Did you have a specific idea of where each storyline would go from the beginning of the show ?
Not from the beginning of the show, no.  Bob Guza, the original head writer really didn’t know where the stories were going.  When Chris Whitesell took over, he had to write long story so we would know where the stories were going.  I was hired to write long story as well.  (Mine was about the gun stuffed into the Thanksgiving turkey by Bette and Olivia.) 

 

11. How long in advance were the storylines planned before shooting and airing ?
It differs from show to show.  On Sunset Beach, we had three to four months I think.

 

12. What storylines ideas got rejected or dropped ?
That I don’t remember.  I only remember the stories that were approved.

 

13. Were you able to do everything as planned ?
Not always–not if the network or the executive producer didn’t like something.

 

14. What were your favourite storylines ?
The gun getting stuffed in the Thanksgiving turkey, obviously, since I came up with that idea!  And anything having to do with Annie.  Oh, I also loved Gabriella (I think that was her name) falling in love with Father Antonio, and he with her.  And their getting trapped and making love, thinking they were going to die.  But they were rescued.  That was fun. 

 

15. As a writer, did you get censored by yourself or the execs at some point because of the conservative viewers of the show ? What ideas got dropped because of that ? 
I was never censored and if the head writer [was] he never shared that with the writing team.

 

16. Was the writing process and the storylines influenced by the public’s reactions ? Which ones ?
The writing process/storylines were NOT influenced by the public, mainly because Twitter, the Internet, blogs, social media did not exist the way they do now.  So we really didn’t know what the public wanted or didn’t want.

 

17. Why wasn’t the Kansas Dream the final scene after all?
Aaron Spelling didn’t understand it, so the head writer came up with the final version.  Everyone liked the new version, saw it as a twist on The Wizard of Oz.

 

18. Is it true that Virginia’s « Operation Insemination » almost got the show cancelled?
No, that’s not true at all.

 

19. Did the cancellation of the show ruin some storylines plans? What would you have liked to happen?
Actually, the headwriter was very burned out by then and really didn’t have any more story ideas so the cancellation didn’t ruin future storyline plans.

 

20. What were the last-minute changes made due to the cancellation of the show?
There were no last minute changes made due to the cancellation because we were given enough notice about it and were able to simply wrap up the stories.

 

21. Why did Elaine and Paula disappear from the show so abruptuly? Especially right after the rape trial climax?
Elaine and Paula disappeared so abruptly because the executive producer was very disappointed about how they acted (or rather didn’t act) during Gabi’s rape trial climax.

 

22. Why was the story about Virginia’s secret regarding her husband’s death (late season 1) dropped?
The story about Virginia’s secret regarding her husband’s death was dropped because the executive producer thought we had a story about two nice women in a relationship with a nice man.  Gary thought the story needed to be edgier, that Virginia should be evil instead of nice.  Which meant her secret didn’t make sense anymore.

 

23. What about Cole’s hair sample storyline? Who was supposed to be behind this and why? Why was this just left aside after a while?
The head writer doesn’t remember that Cole’s hair sample story line was set aside.  He thought (as did I) that we had played it for as far as it could go.

 

24. What was planned for the Antonio/Gabi/Ricardo triangle if the show hadn’t been cancelled ?
If the show hadn’t been cancelled, Ricardo would have found out about Gabi and Antonio’s love affair and would have turned evil.  Antonio was going to either leave the priesthood or join a monastery where Ricardo would have disguised himself as a monk and tried to kill him.  

 

25. Is it true you wanted to bring back Lisa Guerrero ? What were the plans for her ?
There was some discussion about bring back Lisa Guerrero but the show was cancelled because anything definite could be set up.

 

26. What was the original storyline plan for Tess and Benjy ? We know that Benjy was actually supposed to be Maria’s son originally and that a lot of changes happened, mainly due to the cancellation. Can you please shed some light on this ?
There wasn’t an original story plan for Tess and Benjy.  We were making it up as we went along and there were no changes due to the cancellation.  

 

27. Wasn’t Jude really supposed to be Ajay’s son originally ? What was the storyline you had planned about this?
Jude was never supposed to be Ajay’s son and there was  no story line planned for this.

 

28. Is it true that the idea of a romance between Annie and Francesca emerged at some point but got dropped ? Can you tell us about some other dropped couple ideas (gay or not) ?
There was no idea of romance planned between Annie and Francesca.  And there were no dropped couple ideas (gay or straight).

 

29. Don’t you think there was too much focus on Meg and her entourage as the show progressed ?
Yes, we do think there was too much focus on Meg and her entourage as the show progressed.  

 

30. Was Tobias planned from the beginning of the “whodunit” storyline about Francesca’s murder, or was it some sort of a last-minute thing ? How was this supposed to end before you knew the show was cancelled ?
It was not planned from the beginning that Tobias would be involved in Francesca’s murder.  It was a last minute thing.  We didn’t have anything planned for the future.  Chris, the head writer, admitted that he was burnt out and that he had no future stories for most of the characters when we got news that the show was being canceled.

 

31. Why did it never happen again between Cole and Olivia ? Was it considered at some point ?
Cole and Olivia didn’t get together again because their first and only time was a plot point, not a relationship that the head writer wanted to develop further.

 

32. Who was playing the faceless Maria that appears in several flashbacks during season 1 ?
No one famous played the faceless Maria in the flashbacks.  It was just an actress/extra that casting hired.

 

33. Why is Maria so different from the Annie-like mischiever depicted in season 1 and the sweet and nurturing woman shown in seasons 2 and 3 ?
The headwriter saw Maria as a free spirit–not like Annie at all.  When Ben said he hated her it was because he hated her for dying–not because she was a bad person.

 

34. What about Sara and Meg’s brother, mentioned twice in season 1? Was he just forgotten ?
There was no time to bring Sara and Meg’s brother to the show.

 

35. Ben mentions an older brother called Ted in the grotto in season 1, who never gets mentioned again. Forgotten as well ?
The older brother Ben mentions in the grotto–Ted–eventually became his twin brother Derek.

 

36. When was the idea of Derek actually fledged out ? At the early writing stages of the show, was the whole Ben/Maria past supposed to be different than what we were shown later ? Was Ben actually supposed to be the psycho himself at some point ?
The idea of Derek came up only a few weeks before you actually see him on air.  Ben/Maria was also developed a few weeks before we introduced Maria.  We were making things up as we went along.  Ben was never supposed to be Derek, or psycho.  The headwriter saw him as Laurence Olivier in Rebecca and Heathcliff in Wuthering Heights.

 

37. Why does Amy’s name changes between her Terror Island appearance (Amy Dreyer) and her Shockwave come-back (Amy Nielsen) ?
Amy’s last name changed because we decided to make her the daughter of the ship’s captain, which was Nielsen.

 

38. During season 3, an old friend of Olivia’s, Barbie, shows up for a couple of scenes on the phone. They seemed to go as way back as Olivia and Bette, so why wasn’t this colourful lady brought back to shake things up a bit ?
Barbie was merely a story device because Olivia needed someone to talk to.  She was never going to be a major character because we already had too many characters on the show.

 

39. Why was Bette sort of left aside in seasons 2 and 3 ? She never had any real storyline and that’s really a shame given the potential of the character and how great Kathleen was in the role.
Bette’s role was diminished because the executive producer grew very annoyed with the actress who always came to his office to ask for a bigger story.  He decided to do the opposite.  I agree it’s a shame because Kathleen is a friend of mine and I think she’s terrific.

 

40. Jack Wagner guest-starred as a former partner-in-crime of Cole’s in late season 1. Weren’t these two supposed to have shared a bit more than friendship, swindles and thefts?
Jack Wagner was never supposed to share anything more with Cole than just a partner in crime.   

 

41. Did you plan on keeping Spike along for the whole show or did you just find him cute ?
Haha. We all found Spike cute but he never listened to direction.

 

42. Do you remember what were the general plans for season 4 of the show, character-wise and storyline-wise ?
There was no plan for Season 4.  The headwriter was tired and didn’t think any further than Season 3.

 

43. Were there plans to reunite Gregory and Olivia after his prison time ? 
Same answer as above.  The head writer wasn’t thinking that far in advance.

 

44. Did you plan to make Antonio leave the Chruch ?
Antonio would have left the church but not for a while.

 

45. Is it true that Annie’s mother was supposed to show up ? What were the ideas for other new characters ?
Annie’s mother was not supposed to show up.  There were no ideas for other new characters.

 

46. Is it true that an episode was shot and aired live ? What happened in this episode ?
While we discussed doing a live episode it never happened.

 

47. Would you have like Sunset Beach to be less tame, more edgy ?
The headwriter (Chris Whitesell) thinks the tone for the show was about right.

 

48. You worked too on “the young and the restless” and we wonder if you work in the same way for “Sunset Beach” and for “The young and the restless”? and if the atmosphere was the same?
The atmosphere at “Young & the Restless” was toxic. I hated working on that show and was very happy when I was fired. “Days of our Lives” is more pleasant and similar to the atmosphere on “Sunset Beach.” Most of the writers are old friends of mine; in fact, I visited three of them when I was in New York. Or maybe you meant the working atmosphere. That was different from Sunset Beach. On Sunset Beach all the writers met at the studio and helped the headwriters with ideas and story each week. On Days and Y&R the headwriters work without the outline writers help–we don’t even go into the studio on Days. The headwriters email us our assignments, we speak on the phone the next day with out questions and then have three days to write our shows.

 

————

 

Something I would like to know from peeps in the know: Is it common practice for soaps to not plan in advance and work on the fly like this? This element really surprised me.

 

I don’t know how they could have worked without knowing where storylines were going in 6 months time.

Edited February 15, 2021 by Ben

[FrenchBug82]

No. It is emphatically not the way soaps are usually written and the fact SB was is extremely unsurprising if you watched the show and explains why the writing wasn't ... good.

I find a lot of her answer disingenuous (she doesn't remember anything that was rejected? Gimme a break) and stilted and sometimes unkind

but there are some tidbits in there I found interesting so thanks for sharing.

 

Is she saying this as a criticism of the actresses or of the writing? As in they didn't "act" (have any reaction) or the characters were written to be doing nothing and they realized they were superfluous?

 

I agree. Annie was by far the most interesting central character of the show. And one reason SB failed IMO that the character they SO wanted us to root for and like and who was intended to be the lead just wasn't liked or interesting (Meg). I give them credit that they realized Annie was gold and used her in every storyline they could.
That said, if we are talking lead vs supporting, Annie, Meg and Caitlin were definitely leads. I would also put Olivia in there and I actually think Olivia was more of a lead than Caitlin but that may be because I thought her character was more interesting.
Gabi started as supporting but moved to lead later on.

[soapfan770]

 

 

LOL I was reading that and almost spit out my tea I'm sipping on when I saw that about Elaine and Paula. I am wondering what that means as well about the "acting" part as I liked Elaine and Paula and both Laura Harring and Leigh Taylor-Young are both competent successful actresses so I wonder what the exact issue was unless they just completely ran out of story for the two that fast. Especially since I felt Elaine was so vital to the Sunset Beach canvas it was odd not to even bring her back with AJ came to town, that would have been interesting. 

 

 

1. That Ricardo vs. Antonio story sounds like total overkill even for Beach. Sure a massive fight between the two but for Ricardo to become evil and try to murder Antonio? Glad it never played out. 

 

2. Lisa Guerrero returning? Would have been a complete disaster as if her first go around wasn't bad enough. 

 

3. I agree, having no story projections or thought method is pretty bad storytelling for soaps which is I think Beach suffered a lot during its final year. Unless DePriest & Whitesell had finally run out of soap clichés and recycled ideas to use lol. I suppose Meg Bennett is also responsible, disappointing for someone who was once a Bell protégé if she didn't plan out storylines either.  

 

4. There was too much Meg. I would have to say Annie was the most interesting leading female character on the show as well. 

 

5. Didn't anyone actually like(or watch) the Amy/Sean/Emily/Brad stuff at all? I barely remember any of it aside from them just hanging out at the beach and getting into surf competitions, it was all FF material to me. 

 

6. Tomlin must have been off his rocker when it came to diminishing Kathleen Noone at the time. They ended up having to work together on Passions when Tomlin served as Director. Which reminds me Tomlin also had to work with Leigh Taylor-Young as well.

 

7. Just hilarious about Seidman's remarks about Y&R

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 If I recall right Seidman worked on GL & ATWT after Beach ended. She reunited with Tomlin & Whitesell for their 2008-11 Days run which probably explains her fond memories for writing there. Later she followed Josh Griffith around from Hollywood Heights, to Y&R, and Days again before Sussman brought her back. Her scripts were fair to mediocre at best, so I'm guessing she's talking about her Y&R exit when she left out after Sussman was dismissed and not when she first followed Griffith out. 

[FrenchBug82]

It is ironic that she would say that about the two actresses that, outside of Eddie Cibrian for other reasons, probably had the best career outside of Sunset Beach so that's why I was wondering. 
But it is also true that Harring always looked a little lost to me on the show. But if this had been a better soap that doesn't silo its stories as someone said earlier, she could have been chemistry-tested with other actors and thrown into a different more interesting direction than the third wheel of the Gabi story.

 

1. I mean we saw that Ricardo was indeed angry enough to turn somewhat vengeful but it would have gone against so much of what the character was supposed to be to turn him into a villain. Typical SB plot-driven writing. They couldn't possibly imagine that the triangle story would be more interesting if everyone in it had rooting value: they simply saw Gabi/Antonio as popular so the easy way was to simply turn Ricardo into a villain all of a sudden.

2. It may be because I adore her as a journalist now and she sounds like a great person but I actually liked LG. Granted, Francesca as a character... meh. But I love LG

 

3. Except for the baby switch that had to involve some long-term planning, I think the lack of story planning was pretty obvious all throughout the show. I guess it takes skills to manage to keep that many balls in the air by bluffing for so long but it still showed.

 

5. I think there was a part of the audience that liked Amy and Brad as comic relief. I just couldn't buy Sean as a center of female attention at all, Richards money or not, so this all was lost on me.

6. I am going to defend Tomlin here and simply say that we often underestimate how much BTS shenanigans explain on-screen plot changes we find at first sight crazy. Drawing a line that actors cannot come lobbying the producer for story was probably the right move in terms of cast discipline overall even if it deprived the show of some of what Noone had to offer. I won't name names but other shows should have done the same a long time ago.

 

7. In very related news, Y&R is indeed known for having the most toxic behind-the-scenes. And the point I make in 6. is one of the ways in which things must be complicated for writers over there.