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March 3-7, 2008

Featured Replies

  • Member
I've said this before and I'll say it again.......Desperate times calls for desperate measures. :P;)

It's that kind of thinking that got us Melaswen. ;)

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  • Administrator
It's that kind of thinking that got us Melaswen. ;)

Melaswen was a good idea. It's just the execution and conclusion were mishandled. If Jim was able to tell the story his way, it would've been better. ;)

  • Member
I would pay more attention to the specifics of your weekly complaints if not for the fact that everything you say essentially goes back to the idea that the show was so much better when Malone (actually Higley, judging by your preferences, but we'll get to that) wrote it, and that the Williamson family and that verbose, diamond in the rough Vincent were/are the only minorities on the show. If I've read you properly, the gist is that only Michael Malone understood how to do contemporary soap (starring Evangeline, of course) and Ron Carlivati is just a white upper-class WASP who wants to take the show back to the 80s (when Evangeline wasn't there). After all, only Michael Malone understood that Viki, Dorian, Nora and the core families don't draw ratings and that endless amounts of John McBain and the Williamsons (and Evangeline), as the only minorities, were the way to go (with extra Evangeline)!

Except Malone didn't understand almost any of those things. Yes, he frontburnered the disgusting John way too much. But in his original run (the good one) he wrote heavily for all these dreaded vets you talk about. And yes, minority leads, which are extremely important (but not if they're not Evangeline, apparently). But the only minorities that got major screen time in his last tenure on OLTL were Antonio, Tico, Antonio, and, once she grabbed her ticket on the John Express, Evangeline. And when HE was writing the show, she was only a sidebar in a story with two white people - not very progressive, no? In Malone's second run (the mostly bad one) he also wanted to write for all these older characters who are now, as you might put it, "eating up the airtime" today, but he was blocked. What he did put onscreen last time was, at best, a very mixed bag. And only Dena Higley was the writer who really turned it into The Evangeline Show that you have lovingly detailed for us. If you really think it was all Malone's master plan for Evangeline to become as integral to the canvas as you envisioned her being, with John, Cristian, Todd or anyone else, in some huge supercouple, I don't think you knew his work as well as you think you do. And I think you would have been bitterly disappointed in what he did if he'd really been allowed to get anything but his worst, most youth-centric writing onscreen.

Basically, all I take away from you is that if it doesn't adhere to Dena Higley's ethos, it's bad. Because what you've described as a good OLTL, and what you've dismissed as bad, was never Michael Malone's sort of thing, even at his worst low. Even he wouldn't have come up with Vincent.

God, I am so mature.

So I guess that means you're NOT going to disagree with me based on what I actually say? That's cool but could you send these little diatribes to the voices in your head and stop targeting me? You're being a buzzkill.

  • Member
OLTL is not all that. What is with all the praise it is getting. It deserves the ratings it is getting.

Heretic. Blasphemer. Rev. Branco will see you burn in the fires for your lack of vision.

I'll be there with marshmallows, Hershey bars and graham crackers and will be making s'mores for all the damned while the flesh peels from our undeserving skeletons. I'll be the one licking pictures of Michael Malone, John McBain and Evangeline Williamson since apparently that's the only reason I could possibly have for not enjoying the show. Perhaps the other 500,000+ people who quit watching were all McBain-obsessed Malonian whores too. <_<

Edited by marceline

  • Member
Can someone explain to me exactly what the problem with RC's work is? Because I really can't see a big problem.

I won't presume to speak for the entire OLTL fan contingent. However, for me, the problem is that nothing currently on-air compels me to watch everyday. Does RC know these characters? Yes. Are they interacting with each other more (or better)? Yes. Is there more (or better) balance of airtime amongst the cast? Yes. (Frankly, I don't think any of that's even an issue anymore.)

Yet, despite all the positives (pre- and during-strike material included), RC's OLTL still feels lacking. Granted, he has a fair amount of "pretty good" stories, but (again, IMO) he doesn't have anything great - like, so-sensational-it-practically-jumps-off-the-screen-great.

Now, maybe the post-strike material will correct the problem. Who knows? I'm willing to give RC as much time as he needs b/c, 1) I think he has shown tremendous potential (even though, I refrain from calling him the Second Coming of Doug Marland); and 2) compared to where OLTL was even before last Thanksgiving, it's certainly better off!

For me, though, RC will have to do something big - and no, I'm not talking "Out of the Ashes" big, either. I'm talking Karen Wolek-is-a-hooker big.

  • Member

Toups, I love ya, but you're never gonna sell me on Melaswen.

  • Member

MONDAY, MARCH 3

1.(1) Y&R: Monday: 4.0/5,558,000 (+128,000)

2.(2) B&B: Monday: 2.9/3,883,000 (+203,000)

3.(4) ATWT: Monday: 2.2/2,947,000 (-87,000)

4.(5) DAYS: Monday: 2.2/2,894,000 (-7,000)

5.(3) GH: Monday: 2.2/2,859,000 (-298,000)

6.(8) AMC: Monday: 2.0/2,581,000 (+185,000)

7.(7) GL: Monday: 1.9/2,463,000 (+45,000)

8.(6) OLTL: Monday: 1.9/2,375,000 (-203,000)

TUESDAY, MARCH 4

1.(1) Y&R: Tuesday: 4.1/5,657,000 (+99,000)

2.(2) B&B: Tuesday: 3.0/4,072,000 (+189,000)

3.(3) ATWT: Tuesday: 2.3/3,101,000 (+154,000)

4.(5) GH: Tuesday: 2.4/2,968,000 (+109,000)

5.(4) DAYS: Tuesday: 2.1/2,897,000 (+3,000)

6.(7) GL: Tuesday: 2.0/2,755,000 (+292,000)

7.(6) AMC: Tuesday: 2.1/2,634,000 (+53,000)

8.(8) OLTL: Tuesday: 2.0/2,475,000 (+100,000)

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 5

1.(1) Y&R: Wednesday: 4.0/5,558,000 (-99,000)

2.(2) B&B: Wednesday: 2.9/4,015,000 (-57,000)

3.(3) ATWT: Wednesday: 2.1/3,009,000 (-92,000)

4.(4) GH: Wednesday: 2.4/2,973,000 (+5,000)

5.(5) DAYS: Wednesday: 2.1/2,769,000 (-128,000)

6.(6) GL: Wednesday: 1.9/2,735,000 (-20,000)

7.(8) OLTL: Wednesday: 2.1/2,572,000 (+97,000)

8.(7) AMC: Wednesday: 2.0/2,514,000 (-120,000)

THURSDAY, MARCH 6

1.(1) Y&R: Thursday: 3.8/5,262,000 (-296,000)

2.(2) B&B: Thursday: 2.7/3,716,000 (-299,000)

3.(3) ATWT: Thursday: 2.2/3,009,000 (SAME)

4.(4) GH: Thursday: 2.3/2,840,000 (-133,000)

5.(5) DAYS: Thursday: 2.1/2,835,000 (+66,000)

6.(6) GL: Thursday: 1.9/2,796,000 (+61,000)

7.(7) OLTL: Thursday: 1.9/2,397,000 (-175,000)

8.(8) AMC: Thursday: 1.9/2,314,000 (-200,000)

FRIDAY, MARCH 7

1.(1) Y&R: Friday: 4.0/5,539,000 (+277,000)

2.(2) B&B: Friday: 3.1/4,228,000 (+512,000)

3.(3) ATWT: Friday: 2.3/3,318,000 (+309,000)

4.(5) DAYS: Friday: 2.3/3,095,000 (+260,000)

5.(6) GL: Friday: 2.1/2,978,000 (+182,000)

6.(4) GH: Friday: 2.3/2,955,000 (+115,000)

7.(8) AMC: Friday: 2.1/2,753,000 (+439,000)

8.(7) OLTL: Friday: 2.0/2,602,000 (+205,000)

  • Member
I won't presume to speak for the entire OLTL fan contingent. However, for me, the problem is that nothing currently on-air compels me to watch everyday. Does RC know these characters? Yes. Are they interacting with each other more (or better)? Yes. Is there more (or better) balance of airtime amongst the cast? Yes. (Frankly, I don't think any of that's even an issue anymore.)

Yet, despite all the positives (pre- and during-strike material included), RC's OLTL still feels lacking. Granted, he has a fair amount of "pretty good" stories, but (again, IMO) he doesn't have anything great - like, so-sensational-it-practically-jumps-off-the-screen-great.

Now, maybe the post-strike material will correct the problem. Who knows? I'm willing to give RC as much time as he needs b/c, 1) I think he has shown tremendous potential (even though, I refrain from calling him the Second Coming of Doug Marland); and 2) compared to where OLTL was even before last Thanksgiving, it's certainly better off!

For me, though, RC will have to do something big - and no, I'm not talking "Out of the Ashes" big, either. I'm talking Karen Wolek-is-a-hooker big.

Yeah, that was what I was said. LOL.

Nice post.

  • Member
Again, DAYS gets more viewers and lower numbers than the higher numbers and lower viewers than GH is getting. I'm not going to ask it just give me a migraine.

I find the ATWT, GH stuff cold-blooded in terms of viewer difference vs. rating:

TUESDAY, MARCH 4

3.(3) ATWT: Tuesday: 2.3/3,101,000

4.(5) GH: Tuesday: 2.4/2,968,000

+.1 (GH)/+133,000 (ATWT)

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 5

3.(3) ATWT: Wednesday: 2.1/3,009,000

4.(4) GH: Wednesday: 2.4/2,973,000

+.3 (GH)/+36,000 (ATWT)

THURSDAY, MARCH 6

3.(3) ATWT: Thursday: 2.2/3,009,00

4.(4) GH: Thursday: 2.3/2,840,000

+.1 (GH)/+169,000 (ATWT)

FRIDAY, MARCH 7

3.(3) ATWT: Friday: 2.3/3,318,000

6.(4) GH: Friday: 2.3/2,955,000

SAME RATING/+363,000 (ATWT)

  • Member

Oops! Sorry, Jess, for stepping on your toes. I didn't see your post before posting mine.

Edited by Khan

  • Member
I won't presume to speak for the entire OLTL fan contingent. However, for me, the problem is that nothing currently on-air compels me to watch everyday. Does RC know these characters? Yes. Are they interacting with each other more (or better)? Yes. Is there more (or better) balance of airtime amongst the cast? Yes. (Frankly, I don't think any of that's even an issue anymore.)

Yet, despite all the positives (pre- and during-strike material included), RC's OLTL still feels lacking. Granted, he has a fair amount of "pretty good" stories, but (again, IMO) he doesn't have anything great - like, so-sensational-it-practically-jumps-off-the-screen-great.

Now, maybe the post-strike material will correct the problem. Who knows? I'm willing to give RC as much time as he needs b/c, 1) I think he has shown tremendous potential (even though, I refrain from calling him the Second Coming of Doug Marland); and 2) compared to where OLTL was even before last Thanksgiving, it's certainly better off!

For me, though, RC will have to do something big - and no, I'm not talking "Out of the Ashes" big, either. I'm talking Karen Wolek-is-a-hooker big.

I think I fall somewhere between this and Jess.

For the most part I don't like the characters any longer. If I don't like the characters then the stories start out at a deficit. If I didn't like Todd or Natalie or Starr or Rex or Roxie or insert the name 4 years ago or 10 years ago or so on and they were always on my FF list they probably aren't a draw now and aren't going to be in the future. Of course that goes to the point about appealing to a very narrow group of fans which is a problem all in and of itself.

Saying the vet's are back or there is more balance thus all the problems the show has are cured is something of a simplistic solution to a problem that is very complex. I doubt there is even agreement on who the vets are and I certainly never would have cried for more story for Cris or Antonio, arguably two vets. Clint may be a veteran character but I've never cared for JVD in the role. Bo/RSW is certainly a "vet" but everything about him and the character hits me as unattractive these days.

I don't blame RC I blame the other two stooges.

In the end I don't think there is one answer to why people aren't loving the show. That probably has something to do with what got them started watching in the first place.

Oh and pass me the marshmallows.

Edited by cal3

  • Member

One thing I will assent on is that OLTL under Carlivati has been much more character-oriented and low-key. There have been almost no huge "events". Marcie and Viki at the hostage standoff was similar to that but not as large in scope. The Go Red Ball with Alison could've done that if not for, I suspect, the strike, and the need to push that storyline back. As it was, thanks to the strike, the ball was almost a non event.

Now, personally, for me, the last two sweeps for OLTL have been some of the best and most character-centric material the show has done in a long time. Especially November, which honored Asa's memory and kicked off a great umbrella for the Buchanans while, IMO, flawlessly connecting multiple storylines together. But it was not about a big event, not at all. Now, I do think soaps need events during sweeps. But after Dena Higley, I'm almost glad to be shed of the stunts for now. I do think one is needed in May.

For the most part I don't like the characters any longer. If I don't like the characters then the stories start out at a deficit. If I didn't like Todd or Natalie or Starr or Rex or Roxie or insert the name 4 years ago or 10 years ago or so on and they were always on my FF list they probably aren't a draw now and aren't going to be in the future. Of course that goes to the point about appealing to a very narrow group of fans which is a problem all in and of itself.

Yeah, but who's the narrow group of fans here? The fact is, Todd and Natalie, Starr and Rex are generally popular characters to the larger audience; I don't think that can be denied even if people don't like Story A or B or Couple X or Y.

Saying the vet's are back or there is more balance thus all the problems the show has are cured is something of a simplistic solution to a problem that is very complex. I doubt there is even agreement on who the vets are and I certainly never would have cried for more story for Cris or Antonio, arguably two vets. Clint may be a veteran character but I've never cared for JVD in the role. Bo/RSW is certainly a "vet" but everything about him and the character hits me as unattractive these days.

Yet people are enjoying Antonio (who is far from frontburner, along with Cris) more now than they have in years, so what does that mean? Or, why was Clint enjoyed last week in the BE story even by people who've hated him during the Dorian follies? Does that mean a character has to be stuck in a solid state and therefore should not be written for, or does that mean writing can change opinion?

Edited by Vee

  • Member
We need a Marty Saybrooke/Billy Douglas. Or a BJ/Maxie. Or hell - I'd even take a turkey baster! SOMETHING to stir the pot in daytime again. When was the last time we all were foaming at the mouth over something on ANY network? Was it really DOOL's serial killer? God, that's sad. That was almost five years ago.

Nuke came close, but just fell to the wayside like every other homosexual story on a soap (and we ALL saw that coming a mile away).

Stories like that take a lot of bravery to tell, not just creative bravery but managerial bravery and as we've seen with Luke/Noah, the suits running things cave to the tiniest bit of pressure. Imagine trying to pull off a Marty Saybrooke gang-rape story today. You'd have the North-American Interfraternity Conference pissed off about the portrayal of frat boys as rapists, every women's organization on earth angry about "Marty the Party Girl" and her misidentification of Kevin as one of her rapists. Various churches commenting on Andrew's role, etc... Blah, blah, blah.

OLTL's Todd/Starr thing could have shaped up to be an examination of Todd's psychological issues but that would mean putting Trevor St. John front and center in a non-romantic story. It would also mean examining the Todd's ENTIRE history which would mean looking at his previous incarnations when he was played by another actor and written by other writers. Frons would rather set himself on fire than let any of those things happen.

I guess what I'm saying is that I agree with you about the need for a really amazing story but there's so many obstacles standing in the way of letting a story like that ever happen. Soaps can't even see two guys kissing without it turning into the culture wars. If soaps can't come into the present, they'll disappear into the past. And rightly so.

Edited by marceline

  • Member
Yet people are enjoying Antonio (who is far from frontburner, along with Cris) more now than they have in years, so what does that mean? Or, why was Clint enjoyed last week in the BE story even by people who've hated him during the Dorian follies? Does that mean a character has to be stuck in a solid state and therefore should not be written for, or does that mean writing can change opinion?

For me, it's the latter. If an incoming HW can look at a character I previously disliked and somehow discover new and intriguing layers to him, I'm willing to go along. It hasn't happened often, but I think it is possible.

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