So lets just make Jana Nikki's real daughter and Victoria is the switch and talk about the drive to have a connection and it's all okay. Is that going to be a great storyline? Lets just forget that we watched Heather Tom grow up as Victoria in front of our faces. Lets just forget that character because Nikki has a connection to Jana that overpowers her connection to Vicky. Give me a break!

Would you not see this as contrived either?

Point taken. the initial plot is contrived. But I still think Jill's hope for a connection works within that framework. it might be the only part of it that works for me.

Steve, my problem isn't what ATWT is asking us to believe, but the execution of this story which has been pure poo. The pacing is terrible, Jill and Katherine are hardly on, there was no mystery in regards to who her son was, Amber is the star, Jill/Will/Gloria was dropped as was the Gloria/Jill rivalry.

There is no defending the story anymore. On paper is sounds amazing and it could've won Y&R a Best Drama Emmy along with awards for Walton and Cooper, but the execution was pure crap. No debating it in my mind.

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Steve, my problem isn't what ATWT is asking us to believe, but the execution of this story which has been pure poo. The pacing is terrible, Jill and Katherine are hardly on, there was no mystery in regards to who her son was, Amber is the star, Jill/Will/Gloria was dropped as was the Gloria/Jill rivalry.

There is no defending the story anymore. On paper is sounds amazing and it could've won Y&R a Best Drama Emmy along with awards for Walton and Cooper, but the execution was pure crap. No debating it in my mind.

I have to agree. When I first heard about this storyline, no I didn't like it, but I liked the fact that Walton and Cooper would get material. Where is that material?

I never (not once) said the story did not have problems or that it wasn't contrived. But even with it's inconsistencies I see if by far less contrived than say Stefano returning from the dead again, clone Reva on GL, or half the stuff we are asked to believe on soaps these days. I see the longing for the child, the history of Kay's alcoholism, and knowing how much Kay hated Jill then. I watched back then and nothing that Kay might have done surprises me. She was a mess back then.

The story has some problems and she did mess up the pacing. And yes there should have been more question as to who the child was.

Even with Amber getting a lot of attention in the story, the heart of it is still Jill & Katherine so that is good to me. And I think they will once again be more in the mix of it after this set up of the marriage.

I never (not once) said the story did not have problems or that it wasn't contrived. But even with it's inconsistencies I see if by far less contrived than say Stefano returning from the dead again, clone Reva on GL, or half the stuff we are asked to believe on soaps these days. I see the longing for the child, the history of Kay's alcoholism, and knowing how much Kay hated Jill then. I watched back then and nothing that Kay might have done surprises me. She was a mess back then.

The story has some problems and she did mess up the pacing. And yes there should have been more question as to who the child was.

Even with Amber getting a lot of attention in the story, the heart of it is still Jill & Katherine so that is good to me. And I think they will once again be more in the mix of it after this set up of the marriage.

Keep believe that. Oh yeah, Kay and Jill will be involved, but only as props when Amber gets airtime after she's finally found her place in the Chancellor mansion.

Drew I find it surprising from many of your other posts on the board that you would find this bad that Amber is or might end up being the total center of the story.

I don't mean that rude but you are always about the vets just passing the torch to the next generation. If that is what Latham does, then to me that would fit in with that.

Personally I hope that she doesn't and if she completely does I will be the first to complain just like I have now that Hogan has turned the attention away from Victor to Philip. I think that is wrong so far. I still have a little glimmer of faith that Hogan will bring Victor back to the forefront again, but it that glimmer grows dimmer each day.

I still hold out faith that right now Latham is setting this up for the big fight and that Walton & Cooper will once again be a big part of the story and a big part of the fight.

But if they are not then you will hear no one preach louder about it than me.

Just as Victor should still be a big part of the Philip story and the fight for Claire because he set it up - then Walton & Cooper should always be a part of this story.

It is getting old that vets are just props in stories. So far Latham has not destroyed the full balance of Y&R. She has managed to rotate everyone in and out except for Nikki and Ashley so far. So I have hope that even Nikki will get something more meaty in the near future. And if spoilers are right then she will with a good story coming for even her.

Drew I find it surprising from many of your other posts on the board that you would find this bad that Amber is or might end up being the total center of the story.

I don't mean that rude but you are always about the vets just passing the torch to the next generation. If that is what Latham does, then to me that would fit in with that.

Personally I hope that she doesn't and if she completely does I will be the first to complain just like I have now that Hogan has turned the attention away from Victor to Philip. I think that is wrong so far. I still have a little glimmer of faith that Hogan will bring Victor back to the forefront again, but it that glimmer grows dimmer each day.

I still hold out faith that right now Latham is setting this up for the big fight and that Walton & Cooper will once again be a big part of the story and a big part of the fight.

But if they are not then you will hear no one preach louder about it than me.

Just as Victor should still be a big part of the Philip story and the fight for Claire because he set it up - then Walton & Cooper should always be a part of this story.

It is getting old that vets are just props in stories. So far Latham has not destroyed the full balance of Y&R. She has managed to rotate everyone in and out except for Nikki and Ashley so far. So I have hope that even Nikki will get something more meaty in the near future. And if spoilers are right then she will with a good story coming for even her.

There is a BIG difference between Victor passing down the torch to Philip on DAYS and Amber taking over the show on Y&R. Yes, I'm a firm believer that writers need to bulk up the next generation of the shows. In doing so, vets do sort of become a support system to build the character of their offspring. I have no problems with Colleen, Kevin, Lily, Daniel or even JT getting a lot of airtime. However, Amber is not getting the torch passed down to her. What connection does she have to vets? She's had 3 or 4 scenes with Kay and Jill? That's it.

If you're going to quote me, please use a better example.

Yes, Jill may share a connection with Cane because she gave birth to him, he is not Phillip. Phillip is buried 6 feet under ground and it seems that Jill is totally forgetting about that. She is totally forgetting the young man she raised, the young man that had he alcohol problem, and the young man that she buried due to his problem. To me, it seems like Jill got over the real Phillip too soon. It's like, "Oh well, the boy I raised, knew and loved, he's dead. My real son is out there, so that is all I am concerned with." This storyline is so contrived and I find it very funny that the same people criticizing other writers for the lack of creativity are the same praising The Hack.

I agree that the way the story was suddenly introduced, then shifted to Amber was contrived. But I don't believe Jill wanting to connect with the son she gave birth to falls into that. Jill is not saying (or acting) as if she doesn;t give a damn about the Phillip she raised. What can she do about him? He is dead and gone and part of her heart was taken with his death. There is no way I would ever believe she'd just be like, "OH, well, now I have a new son! YAY!"

As a mother of 3, I can't imagine one day finding out that one of my children was switched at birth. (I have my own personal hospital story on that issue...one of the nurses actually called security and stopped my mother and I as we were leaving thinking I was STEALING my own son because he didn't look like me ...LONG STORY). Anyway....I just can't imagine that scenario. But I don't have to imagine that I would want to know who my real child is and WHERE he/she is. How could a mother not? Yes, this child would be a complete stranger, but he/she is still YOUR child. Your flesh, your blood. No mother would turn her back on finding her child. It doesn't mean you have forgotten or love the ones you raised any less. I don't feel she is "getting over" Phillip. She isn't and I don't know how any mother would ever completely get over their child dying. But time is of the essence. Speaking for myself, I wouldn't want to waste any time in locating my child if I'd already missed out on 3 decades of their life.

I missed most of today's show and only got to see Brad sucker punch Kevin as he we doing the perp walk in handcuffs. Yep, Brad's to remain on my scum list. A sucker punch? A SUCKER PUNCH?

I haven't watched Friday's episode yet, but I did get a chance to see Thursday's debacle on SoapNet last night and all I could do was shake my head.

Thank God they're not keeping Alison around long-term, because the actress is beyond wooden. Hate, hate, hate her. Her and Amber doing their pathetic (laughable, really) sexy dance for Cane was... well... painful to watch.

The wedding scene was a complete joke. I can't believe LML has allowed Y&R to spiral down to plot-driven material like this. Y&R was always above this kind of sh!t. Would anyone actually believe that Alison was a man? She looked like a farking alien! And where did this come from? It's all totally out of left field, and I can already see where it's going... it ain't pretty.

If I were Jess Walton and Jeanne Cooper, I would quit right on the spot. Screw contracts. Either that, or I'd be such a miserable b!tch to LML that she'd write me out and I couldn't be sued for breach of contract. They're so islanded on this show, in their own little corner... it almost feels as if they're part of a completely different program.

The relizzzzzzzzz. Please Jesus, let it be over.

From the spoilers I've read, things are only going to get worse. The hack needs to be fired, like, yesterday and an hour ago.

The wedding scene was a complete joke. I can't believe LML has allowed Y&R to spiral down to plot-driven material like this. Y&R was always above this kind of sh!t. Would anyone actually believe that Alison was a man? She looked like a farking alien! And where did this come from? It's all totally out of left field, and I can already see where it's going... it ain't pretty.

Yes. It was right out of Passions or DAYS & OLTL at their worst.

There is a BIG difference between Victor passing down the torch to Philip on DAYS and Amber taking over the show on Y&R. Yes, I'm a firm believer that writers need to bulk up the next generation of the shows. In doing so, vets do sort of become a support system to build the character of their offspring. I have no problems with Colleen, Kevin, Lily, Daniel or even JT getting a lot of airtime. However, Amber is not getting the torch passed down to her. What connection does she have to vets? She's had 3 or 4 scenes with Kay and Jill? That's it.

If you're going to quote me, please use a better example.

What better example I have seen you use the same scenario for many newcomer characters. Why in another thread you were talking to Ms. Walsh about other newbie characters being the future. Many of those newbie characters that you have mentioned as being the future of their shows fall into the same category as Amber - they have no real ties to the show. That is the only reason I brought it up.

Sorry but I have seen you use if for many different characters - not only characters like Philip. I just used him because he was the example I was thinking of at the time.

Personally I see Amber just like Willow - the sooner both of them are off my TV the happier I will be but unfortunately I think we are stuck with both blondes from Hell.

And sorry as I have said before vets should never be just the support system - they should always be equals and coexist at the same level. They are not props. They are the heart of the show.

And that is your opinion. I disagree.

I can understand a mother's connection to a child she gave birth to. I'm not a woman, nor do I have any children, so I cannot go by experience, only by thought. I'm sorry, but I feel a parent, not even just a mother, is going to have more of a connection to a child she raised than a total stranger. That is what Cain is to Jill. Yes, biologically, he is her son. But he's a complete stranger.

I'm not saying that Jill should never accept Cain as her son. But this is all happening too fast and with very little emotion. Jill showed little resistance after she found out about the baby switch. She instantly wanted to find her son. I would have rather Jill been in denial for a while and even spite Katherine for what she's done. No, we have a day of spite and then the next day the two are sipping tea together and laughing, attached at the hip again.

This storyline is one of the most contrived storylines I have ever seen on Y&R. Katherine suddenly, afer 30 years, suddenly has a breakthrough and starts dreaming about a ring. Then, she just coincidentally met a woman in a bar that knew how to steal babies. Cain coincidentally landed in Genoa City after talking to Amber, who coincidentally has been put in a storyline with Jill and Kay. Cain and Phillip coincidentally share the same birthdate. Jill and Cain coincedentally share scenes together where Jill talks about how wonderful of a man Cain is and Cain talks about only wanting to see his parents, just as Jill is telling Ji-Min about her son, Phillip.

It's BS and I'm embarrassed as a Y&R fan to say that I continue to watch this garbage. But, as for most of the world, the television is on out of habit and I am usually in the other room.

Exactly.

If someone were to tell me tomorrow that my mom isn't my bilogical mother, she would still be my mom. The bond we have does not change because of DNA.

Exactly.

If someone were to tell me tomorrow that my mom isn't my bilogical mother, she would still be my mom. The bond we have does not change because of DNA.

The difference is that Jill's Phillip is dead and as a mother she like feels she could have done more to give him a longer, happier life. Cain is a second chance to be something resembling a better mother.

Not that I have a whole lot of confidence it will play this way. At it's worst it will be about Amber being a golddigger and Catherine's character being trashed even more.

*fingers crossed for something better than that*

This show? Isn't Y&R.

It's a show.

But it aint Y&R.

...And that's pretty much is all that needs to be said.

The difference is that Jill's Phillip is dead and as a mother she like feels she could have done more to give him a longer, happier life. Cain is a second chance to be something resembling a better mother.

Not that I have a whole lot of confidence it will play this way. At it's worst it will be about Amber being a golddigger and Catherine's character being trashed even more.

*fingers crossed for something better than that*

That makes more sense, but I just find it strange the way Jill keeps going on about her "real" son. It's as if the guy in the ground was just a waste of her time. I can understand Jill wanting a second chance, but she has no trepediation that this grown man may already have a mother who raised him.

About a decade ago, there was this controversial story involving a girl who was taken from her biologicla parents but raised by her adoptive family. When the whole ugly came out, she refused to go back to her natural parents and it became this big court battle. The names escape me at the moment, but it goes to hsow that you don't just stop loving someone--esp. not a child because there was a mstake at the hospital or my evil Mommy switched babies. Jill and Katherine are being so causal and Amber is just a grimy slut.

Anyway...

Phyllis as so pathetic. This ho has some nerve acting like some wronged wife. He'll stray from your leash too.