I really cannot stand Jonathan either. Its really pathetic how now he is screaming from the rooftops that someone needs to pay for his sister's death meanwhile he goes free for killing Edmund. Makes zero sense and the typical hypocritical and contradictory writing Megan McTavish is known for. Its sad, Jeff Brasnon's talents are being wasted.

I hate him too and keep beleive he has the gall to even go there

Zach/Kendall are boring. I know they are popular but they have no appeal to me. Im finding Kendall to be a bore and she's always been one of my favorites. Im so not interested in this murder story. Zarf is the only good thing about it.

What I really hate is that Kendall is keeping the truth about Emma from Ryan. Um why? She's coming across as jealous, selfish and petty. This only makes her look bad and I dont think she has a right to be doing what she is.

OMG! Whyyyyyyyy do you keep singing this tune? WHO jumped on you? You made a statement, some people disagreed and discussed their points of view! That was it! Hate to break it to you, but it's going to happen again at least one or two more times during your time here on this or any other DISCUSSION BOARD.

Well it's never happened before, and I've been here at SON for nearly three and a half years.

I'm sorry, but by the time you even replied to this thread, most of everything dealing with my thoughts about Zach and Myrtle were squashed. It was you who came in here, posting lists and asking me to match the number of Babe props with Zach props. Anybody with half a brain knows that Babe is propped more than Zach is. Which is why I never claimed that Zach was propped as much as Babe and Ryan. All I said was that I felt Myrtle was a Zach prop. It was *not* that big of a deal until you replied.

And I *just* had to get that in there. And I'm sure you will reply.

Yep she was kidnapped from the PH, that's where Erin was living.

Thanks for answering.

I'm glad others noticed just how much of a hypocrite Jonathan is. He is a serial killing pedophile!

Ryan has returned to my sh!t list. He has some nerve kidnapping Spike and putting him in Annie's arms.

I felt bad for Zoe/Zarf.

Well it's never happened before, and I've been here at SON for nearly three and a half years.

I'm sorry, but by the time you even replied to this thread, most of everything dealing with my thoughts about Zach and Myrtle were squashed. It was you who came in here, posting lists and asking me to match the number of Babe props with Zach props. Anybody with half a brain knows that Babe is propped more than Zach is. Which is why I never claimed that Zach was propped as much as Babe and Ryan. All I said was that I felt Myrtle was a Zach prop. It was *not* that big of a deal until you replied.

And I *just* had to get that in there. And I'm sure you will reply.

Exactly, AMS! R Sinclair started the attack by accusing those of us who don't buy the Zach/Myrtle friendship of whining and then questioning how Myrtle props Zach.

WORD to all of your wonderful posts standing up for all of us who don't care for Zach and like to freely express our opinions without being attacked for it!

And I'm tired of people whining about Zyrtle. She's not a prop -- she's Zach "talk to" (as Agnes Nixon refers to the function these characters serve). Zach needs someone to bounce his feelings and ideas off of, and since, for years, everyone hated Zach because he had Erica hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, she was the only character on the damn canvas that the Zach character could emote with. If not, there would've been ZERO outlet for Zach's inner thoughts. Myrtle is not a prop.

Bianca is a Babe prop because, "Babe is Love." End of THAT story.

Erica is a Lavery prop because there is no way that Erica would want a triple homicidal lunatic like Jonathan to actually be anywhere near her stepdaughter Lily. If Erica holds a grudge against Zach because his brother Michael raped Bianca, then Erica should hold a grudge against Jonathan and Ryan because Jonathan held her daughter and two step daughters hostage in that cave AS WELL AS terrorize her daughter Bianca and her granddaughter Miranda. But yet, Erica went around telling Jack he was wrong for disliking Jonathan's relationship with Lily? THAT'S a prop.

Myrtle being used to advise Zach and be friends with Zach isn't being a prop. It's being a friend. She kicks him in the pants when she feels he's being dumb, and she comforts him when she feels he's being a little precarious. That's what friends do.

WORD to all of my excellent points, no matter how much others may seem to twist the words. I'm so fabulous!

Exactly, AMS! R Sinclair started the attack by accusing those of us who don't buy the Zach/Myrtle friendship of whining and then questioning how Myrtle props Zach.

WORD to all of your wonderful posts standing up for all of us who don't care for Zach and like to freely express our opinions without being attacked for it!

OMG! The thread is right up there^^^! WHO DID I ATTACK? Not only that, but how am I the one who start the alleged attack THIRTY NINE POSTS INTO the thread? I was saying I was tired of the whining because for most of the previous 38 posts, that's all that was being talked about.

It's funny. You people want to have the freedom to express your opinion, but want to deny others that disagree with you that same freedom. For the last time, I didn't "attack" anybody. I disagreed and gave my reasons for doing so. If you don't like the fact that I disagreed with the Anti-Zach opinion, that's fine. But stop falsely accusing me or the others of "attacking" when we speak up for the character that you happen to dislike. I mean, really. You make a statement, and then when it's questioned, you're being attacked? If you can't handle somebody asking you why you feel the way you do, then why bother expressing it?

Start an Anti-Zach/Anti-Zyrtle thread, then. That way, you can post and post and post until your hearts are content about your Zach/Zyrtle hatred, and everyone there will agree with you. Free from all "attacking" posts that dare to question your comments and have an opposing point of view.

It's funny. You people want to have the freedom to express your opinion, but want to deny others that disagree with you that same freedom. For the last time, I didn't "attack" anybody. I disagreed and gave my reasons for doing so. If you don't like the fact that I disagreed with the Anti-Zach opinion, that's fine. But stop falsely accusing me or the others of "attacking" when we speak up for the character that you happen to dislike. I mean, really. You make a statement, and then when it's questioned, you're being attacked? If you can't handle somebody asking you why you feel the way you do, then why bother expressing it?

Start an Anti-Zach/Anti-Zyrtle thread, then. That way, you can post and post and post until your hearts are content about your Zach/Zyrtle hatred, and everyone there will agree with you. Free from all "attacking" posts that dare to question your comments and have an opposing point of view.

Great post

It wasn't my intention to attack anyone, and didn't mean for it come across that way, but geesh you disagree with some and it's "attacking them"

Okay, maybe "attack" was the wrong word. But you pretty much came and stirred the pot. It was all over and done with by the time you posted #44, which was when you talked about Babe's props and wanted me to come up with four Zach props to match the four Babe props you listed.

There was none of that until you came and posted. Just for a run-through, here are all the posts dealing with the matter in order that they were posted:

Yay, Myrtle was on today.........to prop Zach. I'm sorry, I've never liked their "friendship" at all. It is to me what many people thought the Stuart and Babe friendship was a few years ago. It's all set up to make Zach look good by letting a beloved vet sit there and tell him that he's good. Zach is a rat bastard and I don't like him. Please go back to Las Vegas. And let Emma kill you.

That's me explaining why I didn't like the Zach and Myrtle scenes.

How is Myrtle a prop for Zach, so because they're friends she's propping him? PUHLEEZE rolleyes.gif If anyone's propped it's Ryass and the hobag

Okay...and Ryan and Babe are brought into the discussion why? I understand, they're the most propped characters on AMC, but their propping has nothing to do with what I considered Zach propping.

It's much too easy to just hate on Ryan. I'm sorry, but Zach's been bothering me for a very long time. They only give him scenes with Myrtle when he's done something bad or is about to do something bad, just so that we can be reminded that Zach is friends with Myrtle, so he MUST be good.

I'm sorry, but Zach is my version of Babe. Has been for a very long time. I just don't like the bastard.

That's me further explaining why I don't like Zach and Myrtle's friendship and why I consider Myrtle a Zach prop. I even went along with the Babe reference and said that Zach is my version of her.

Didn't there was a limit to how many quotes you can put in one post. Continued in the next post...

And what is the big deal if people hate on Ryan? blink.gif

Ryan has never been a favorite of mine and I just don't like the character...I really don't find any endearing traits about him. JMO

Laurie, responding to my words about how it is "too easy to just hate on Ryan." I understand where she's coming from, but I didn't really mean that there was something wrong with Ryan...

I never implied that there was. Hell, I *hated* Ryan a lot towards the end of 2003 and most of 2004, but it was never as much as everybody else did. And it wore off a lot once Greenlee left. Why is it such a big deal if people hate Zach?

That's me, telling Laurie that I didn't mean anything about my Ryan comment. I even went on and said that I hated Ryan for a long time. I asked why it was such a big deal if people hated Zach.

Sorry I thought you were implying that. Also it's not a big deal if people hate Zach. Sorry just in a weird mood today. LOL

She apologized for thinking that I was implying something about Ryan comment. She also said that it wasn't a big deal if people hated on Zach. She even said that she was in a weird mood. Even sealed with a nice LOL.

It's okay lol. We AMC fans gotta stick together!

Me, saying that it's okay. I hate hate hate fanbase wars, especially the AMC ones, and I was really hoping that it wouldn't end up like that. Thus why I said that "we AMC fans gotta stick together!"

I say Hate who you want, no big deal to me either. I guess saying Myrtle is there to prop Zach rubbed me the wrong way cause popular characters don't need propping, it's unpopular characters that do(ie. Ryan, Babe, Krystal, Dixie). You know how weak a character is by the amount of propping they get.

This is AMC Zendall Fan's response and it makes complete sense. And he (or she) is right, I think. Ryan and Babe have been written so horribly that they are indeed weaker characters and they need other characters to sing their praises, hence their propping.

Don't you know that we aren't allowed to hate Zach? I also hated Ryan after they paired him with Greenlee, he suddenly was a character I didn't recognize. And then he worked his way back into my good graces last year right about the same time that Zach started to bug the crap out of me. Zach looks like he needs to be thrown into a shower and held down and shaved. And his riddles are just stupid. This guy never learns his lesson and is arrogant. For me Zach and Babe are the two characters that I dislike the most on this show and I hate how I now don't like Myrtle because she props for Zach! I bet she'll be the one to get killed off next!

CRPEMKE responded to something I said with this. This here really turned into something only between AMC Zendall Fan and CRPEMKE. I didn't even reply to this little part of the whole thing.

I agree, and I apologize if I insulted anyone. Guess I'm too passionate about Zach

The whole damn thing is in the process of getting SQUASHED. Done with. AMC Zendall Fan even put in a nice little smiley.

I also apologize if I insulted anyone that wasn't my intention.

This is Laurie. The thing continues to be squashed.

I'm sorry if I upset anyone.

And this is CRPEMKE...continuing the squashing of the issue...

Zach has started to remind me a lot of how Juan Pablo was in 2003, when people connected to him were getting attacked left and right. I distinctly remember me wondering why people weren't like "Dude, get the eff away from me! I ain't bout to go out like that!" whenever he showed up. If I'm not mistaken, Juan Pablo is pretty much the reason why Edmund was paralyzed and why Carloser got killed (not that I had problems with the latter).

I used to love Zach back in 2004 and early 2005. I even tolerated him, Maria, and the damned "casita" or however you spell it. I used to *love* it when he'd come across someone who didn't like him and he'd be all smiles and kind and nice to them. That was hilarious. But I don't know...ever since he and Kendall got together...he's just different. A lot of her extreme arrogance rubbed off on him and now they both annoy the heck out of me. I wouldn't be the list bit disappointed if they both left for a long, long time, because like a lotta people think that AMC has turned into "The Babe Show," I definitely think it's become "I Love Kendall." And Zach is her Ricky Ricardo.

By this time people were discussing Ryan's bastardization and all that and just before I made the above post, jenna14 mentioned that "Zach was being an ass today." My post was pretty much in response to her post (#28), but I didn't feel like going through all the quoting stuff.

For the rest of Page 2, people pretty much went back to discussing Friday's episode and all that.

Continued in the next post...

I'm another poster who doesn't care for Zach. I don't full on hate him but I've never thought he added anything to the show and I hate how Pine Valley now has a character with mob connections. To me, he's always been a watered-down version of GH's Sonny. It does also bug me how they give him the occasional scene with Myrtle to try to make us like him. Personally, I think he has better chemistry with Myrtle and Erica than any of the women the show has tried to pair him with.

Steve, agreeing with me about Zach.

And I'm tired of people whining about Zyrtle. She's not a prop -- she's Zach "talk to" (as Agnes Nixon refers to the function these characters serve). Zach needs someone to bounce his feelings and ideas off of, and since, for years, everyone hated Zach because he had Erica hospitalized for alcohol poisoning, she was the only character on the damn canvas that the Zach character could emote with. If not, there would've been ZERO outlet for Zach's inner thoughts. Myrtle is not a prop.

Bianca is a Babe prop because, "Babe is Love." End of THAT story.

Erica is a Lavery prop because there is no way that Erica would want a triple homicidal lunatic like Jonathan to actually be anywhere near her stepdaughter Lily. If Erica holds a grudge against Zach because his brother Michael raped Bianca, then Erica should hold a grudge against Jonathan and Ryan because Jonathan held her daughter and two step daughters hostage in that cave AS WELL AS terrorize her daughter Bianca and her granddaughter Miranda. But yet, Erica went around telling Jack he was wrong for disliking Jonathan's relationship with Lily? THAT'S a prop.

Myrtle being used to advise Zach and be friends with Zach isn't being a prop. It's being a friend. She kicks him in the pants when she feels he's being dumb, and she comforts him when she feels he's being a little precarious. That's what friends do.

This is you pretty much explaining why you DON'T think Myrtle is a Zach prop. It's all good at this point, I thought. Another opinion is always welcomed.

Whatever. Maybe I just can't stand Zach. Whatever it is, the Zach and Myrtle scenes always grate my nerves. Simone and Myrtle had a much more realistic friendship and had they given Simone real stories, I could only imagine how great it would have been (or could have been, since it probably wouldn't have happened anyway) to see Simone up late at night at the boarding house and Myrtle putting on some tea and the two of them talking. That would have been SO classic!

Here I am responding to you, but without a quotation. By then, I was pretty much done with it all, but I was just trying to clear it up that my dislike for Myrtle and Zach mainly stems from me not liking Zach much at all.

Continued in the next post...

I've thought about this Myrtle props Zach idea and I disagree. When Kendall found out about the blackout and she broke up with Zach it was Myrtle who told him she loved him but he deserved to lose Kendall after that revelation. If Myrtle propped Zach she would have pulled the dialogue that Kendall has to pull for Ryan or Bianca has to pull for Babe. Something about how Zach caused the blackout out of love for Kendall and he made the mistake because he loves so much. Or Myrtle would completely disregard his mistakes like Kendall does with Ryan's when she saw with her own eyes how close he came to punching Greenlee and his other King Lavery actions. I think Myrtle is more a sounding board for Zach. Babe's sounding board would more be Amanda and sometimes KWAK whereas Bianca just straight up props Babe just like Kendall props Ryan but someone had to take over Greenlee's job. I feel Kendall's propping job will now be taken over by Annie and I have no problem with that though I have a problem with propping in general. I just don't care about Annie enough. Anyone but Kendall. I actually think Dixie is the one that used to prop Zach but that stupid storyline has got nipped in the butt. Thank God.

jenna14's opinions about the whole thing. I was really just tired of talking about it then, so I didn't even respond. I was sure that my thoughts were pretty much understood.

Which brings up to post #44, one of yours, R Sinclair. It quoted the post that is above jenna14's here in this post.

Yeah, you can't stand Zach -- and I can't stand Babe. But as much as I despise that slut, I'm able to indentify her sounding boards/talk to characters from her propping characters.

Sounding Board

Krystal - her mother, so that's natural

Amanda - I can "buy" their friendship, bonding over Janet

Josh - he's obsessed with her

JR - he's the one responsible for bringing this trash to the show.

ex-David - her father

Props

Bianca - Babe is Love. End of Story

Tad - Supports BIL theory even though she's betrayed both of his "sons"

Jeff - Comes to town and two days later is defending Babe against ERICA for a son he never even knew?

Adam - Knows Babe is a whore and has betrayed his son countless times, but continues to sing her praises to JR? Please.

Now, when it comes to Zach, name at least FOUR people who have absolutely NO reason to say anything nice about him, but go out of their way to do it anyway -- and then I might be able to see why there would be a problem with Zach propping. But if Myrtle is the only person out of Zach's immediate orbit that is being nice to him, I hardly consider that being a prop.

Now here is where you're basically telling me to say that Zach has the same amount of props as Babe. Come on, we all know that CAN'T be done! Which is why I said...

Continued in the next post...

Wait a second...I never said that Zach has multiple props. I just said that I consider Myrtle a prop. What is Myrtle's friendship with Zach based on? Honestly? I don't buy their friendship one bit. And that's just how it is.

I basically reiterated what I'd been saying for a while in the thread.

And then, immediately afterwards, I replied again. This time, I quoted this, which was said in a previous post:

Myrtle says, "Zach, you love your wife. Let her support you," and all of a sudden, there's an outcry of propping?!?

I felt like you were assuming that I just watched the show on Friday, saw their scenes, and from then on, decided that Myrtle was a Zach prop. My opinion on that was made a long time ago. I responded:

I state my VERY OWN OPINION that I think Myrtle is there as a Zach prop, and there's an outcry of people knocking down the door to tell me that my opinion is wrong?!

Damn, it's perfectly fine to hate Ryan and Babe, yet god forbid ANYONE said a damn thing about Zach. I agree with whoever said that he's become the Sonny of this show.

I was pretty ticked off now. I explained my opinion several times to anyone who had questions regarding it. If you had an issue with why I didn't like the friendship between Zach and Myrtle, all answers to all of your questions were already in this thread. All you had to do was read back one or two pages. The last part there came out me being pissed because whenever anybody would say something about Ryan or Babe, nobody, not even the people who supported those characters, would continuously ask, "why? why? why?" when it came to people's opinions.

And the rest is at the bottom of page #3. Like I already said, it was already pretty much done with until you posted your list in post #44.

You know, this is all such a fricken silly thing to argue over, but I'm stubborn. I can't stand to be blamed for things that I really don't think I caused. I'm sorry if this is annoying anybody, really, because I *hate* it when ordinary threads turn into opinion/fanbase wars.

And now I want to apologize for making so many posts like this. I just worked so hard on retracing the steps of this whole damn thing I really wanted to post it all. Now I'm through pointing the finger at anybody and it really doesn't even matter anymore to me. As long as I know that I've been able to go and say how I saw it all. I didn't manipulate any of the quotes and I didn't convieniently leave anything out. It's all there, in traditional SON blue and white.

I hate fanbase wars also. Went thou enough of that during my PSNS posting days *shudder*

It is sad when a regular thread turns into a fan warzone.

It is totally possible for people with different opinions to get along. I post on another board and two of my best 'Net buddies aren't Zach/Zendall fans but we get along great

Edited January 8, 200718 yr by Laurie

I hate fanbase wars too, that's what turned me off of GH for a long time a few years ago.

Okay back to the show, so Ryan offers for Kendall AND SPIKE to come and stay with him and Annie at the PH. Ummm that kind of defeats the purpose of things

Ryan overstepping his bounds again. Freaking asshat! Yeah Spike is so much safer with Ryan's BSC brother running around grabbing women and trying to beat up everyone he thinks killed his sister.

And if I hear "MYSON" out of Ryan's mouth one more time I swear I'll kick his ass myself.

It is totally possible for people with different opinions to get along. I post on another board and two of my best 'Net buddies aren't Zach/Zendall fans but we get along great

Exactly! And I love your posts here. I don't know what it is, but whenever I read your posts on the daily episodes, it feels like I'm getting the opinion of a traditional soap fan. Someone who lives for the romance and the good (and bad) times of the characters. I just get a good feeling from your posts. Keep it up.