AMC Photo of Zarf as Zoe

[Kylie]

Exactly. That's it exactly. I waited 35 years for Erica to have a son, and instead I got the biggest slap to the face of AMC, in the show's history. A slap that stared the fans in the face, and told us we don't matter. And that it's all about what they want, what they think, and what they believe we want to see. A slap that is still echoing throuhgout the canvas. They still pimp Erica's abortion as though it's highly respected, somthing sacred, a means in which this storyline will be modeled. And that sounds nice to people who don't watch AMC all time, but when I read that...I read them telling the press what they want to hear, and seeing the fans as peaons.

Unlike with Josh, MMT might actually have good intentions this time, she just has very limited touch with reality. Very limited touch with the fact that we have minds, that we're smart, and that we care about AMC"s history and the respect behind it. She thinks if she tells us, " Here's Zoe, isn't she pretty?" that will be the end of it for us, "aren't they pretty together?" And that's done with. She sees the reveal, and nothing more.

I want this storyline to succed, because I still and always will love AMC. But I also know that people wanted Josh to be the fetus, or at the very least were okay with Josh being the fetus...and were willing to just take MMT's reasons.

I'm scared what they can do with this, both in good ways and in bad. I'm expecting the worst, and hoping for something decent.

[PAsoapfan]

WEll I"M in the Minority here I hate this storyline with Zarf. I will give AMC credit for doing a social S/L. What really pisses me of is that WE had to lose Julia Barr for this along with Vincent GMAFB. NO AMC can't convince me to like this story all. They could have done this S/L featuring Brooke and her daughter. WE didn;t need another story revolving around another damn NEWBIE Nope Julia Barr would have nailed this storyline IMO, instead we get ZARF instead of Brooke. I"M not buying and I won't EVER. What a freakin wasted opportunity for AMC not to do this storyline around BRooke and her daughter Laura.

Robert

[R Sinclair]

Oh, that's it! AMC's done for. If a James E. Reilly lover is salivating to add a McTavish written soap to their viewing schedule, then you KNOW this show's gone way off course.

I always knew JER and MMT were writers of a similar ilk... but this cements that belief!

[leevo64]

I always thought that Reilly and McTavish were alike though Reilly tends to at least write for the correct core of the show he's at and showcase the actors the audiences want to see (granted having them trapped in ditches for nine months isn't such a great showcase). McTavish, on the other hand, has no problems redefining an entire show to fit a single storyline.

[bellcurve]

What is meant by the term "social relevance" with respect to this storyline? I see this term being brought up ALOT with respect to Zarf/Zoe.

Are we talking social relevance in terms of Oprah social relevance or Jerry Springer social relevance? Both of those talk shows are arguably socially relevant, but one presents the topic, whereas the other merely exploits it for cheap thrills.

If this is what Eden Riegel came back for, I'd rather of had her not come back at all. They are destroying her character.

I doubt it, but for the love of lesbians, I hope you're right.

Just curious...why? Not necessarily looking to change your mind, but I am curious your thoughts on this.

This doesn't ring true to ME. Not saying it wouldn't to anyone else, but this doesn't ring true to me, nor does it appeal to me. Whenever I think of this storyline, I (as a gay male)put myself in Bianca's place and, quite honestly, I don't think I could ever be with someone who wasn't physically and emotionally born a man. And many gay people feel the same way I do.

It's not that I have anything against transgender people(as I said earlier, I work at a gay club). But lesbians don't fall for women who were not BORN women, physically or emotionally. Same for gay men and transgenders as well.

I'm so against this storyline, because this totally negates everything Agnes Nixon wanted when she developed Bianca's character in 2000. Bianca is not the "social issue of the year" girl. She's a lesbian. More importantly, she's a three dimensional character, not the stray character to throw into some latest plot twist. And AMC is just too chickensh*t to acnowledge what Bianca really needs.

People in Middle America already have such a distorted view of gays and lesbians as is. All I see this storyline doing is drilling into Middle America that gay=wrong. Zarf was born a man and man needs to be with woman in whatever form. It's a fucked up way of thinking, I'm aware, but this is what people are already thinking.

P.S. Boy George did it better.

[All My Shadows]

And, tell me, how exactly would this storyline make sense with Brooke and/or Laura? Both of them are positively straight and I honestly have no idea how it would make any sense at all. What would Julia have nailed? Playing Brooke as a M-F transexual? Is that a showcase of more respect for Julia, Brooke, and the show's history.

Please, tell me, I'm eager to know.

[JER Soaps Fan]

Bellcurve, this may be going off topic but I'm so glad to hear I'm not the only who is/was confused about how lesbians have sex. But now for the embarrassing part: ummm, I still don't know. At 23 years old, that's right. So can anybody tell me (without being graphic), how DO lesbians have sex? I assumed what you did, bellcurve. As for the woman's response to you, what a witch! Anybody with half a brain could figure out how men have sex with each other. The basic parts are still there...I seriously don't know how women do it. It seems like there's nothing TO do.

[R!ck]

I you

[bellcurve]

Well the girl who told me is one of my closest and dearest friends, which is why I asked. We used to go clubbing together(except I was the gay tag-a-long to the lesbian dives in town, but I had fun nonetheless).

I respect and validate her opinion, and if you think about it...it makes perfect sense: a true lesbian relationship is two women together. Why would they need a "fake penis" which is essentially a "fake man"? THIS is why I am so against the Bianca/Zarf thing...lesbians would find this absolutely absurd. And it is not as though Bianca is being tricked by Zarf...she will know he's was biologically born a man. And to the lesbian population, Bianca is no longer one of them.

Also, I would be upset too by a question like that, especially if it seemed like something people asked me all the time or something that was really ignorant or offensive, even if someone didn't mean to say it.

I'll PM you what I was told(or at least what I infer from being told).

Hey Rick...You Rock!

[JER Soaps Fan]

In the story's defense, I'm sure that someone, SOMEWHERE is in Biancia's shoes. That's why I don't see the need for the harsh criticism, particularly if it's premature. If Zoe is Bianca's new love interest, just because of all the people in the world and the fact that I've heard everything else, surely we all KNOW this is actually happening somewherein the world. Why, then, can't Bianca also be the exception to this "rule" about "bio-lesbians" and whom they choose for a partner? That's what I don't get. It seems that the criticisms, to me, are politically driven, since such a story takes away from the "purest" gay agenda. It doesn't seem like the story itself is bad. That's the way I see it. Just because it's not following a certain agenda, it's being judged harshly.

[Target Demo]

Can't tell you much without being explicit, JointStrike.

But women like a lot of things besides "that." And the straight women I know complain they only get lots of "that" and not enough of what they actually enjoy. The answer to the question is the answer to "what do women like?" (And just FYI, some lesbians do enjoy the occasional toy. But I'm sure they resent anyone assuming that. :-) )

I'll bring up another issue, because I agree it is super-rare for a lesbian to be in a relationship with a transgender. So rare, I have never personally seen it. And I wonder if it is for the same reason I never see two transgenders together, even though I know many that are still attracted to women. They just don't date each other. Many of them, the ones I know, are bi, and end up dating het men. They have stated that it is because the men treat them like women, are flattering, etc. and they like that validation. They would prefer to date hetero/bi women - the ones who they feel have the most in common with them, and mirror their style choices, etc. Ones who are femmy and conventional. And that is not females like them (what one would think would be a very receptive dating pool) or lesbians.

So, by doing this story, it makes me think they're trying to make Bianca into some sort of lipstick bi. Otherwise, why have her accept Zarf's false choice between women's souls and their bodies? She, if she were a lesbian, would have said "Both, Actually!" Like ... DUH! Because the "I'm attracted to souls and bodies don't matter." is a bisexual position to state.

And this? Makes me mad. Very mad at the writers.

They're doing a stunt and wrecking Bianca's character in the process.

A more valid and common and real way to to the TG story would be if it was a male huband or boyfriend of a female character that transitions. Because that is the real story I see all the time. Mucho drama, yo.

[bellcurve]

Yes, but the fact that this COULD happen in real life is beside the point. Many people who have followed Bianca's story(I, as soon as I found out she was coming out) have wanted to see the show follow through on their promises to give Bianca a REAL love interest and a REAL storyline, something not driven by shock value or a lame-o plot twist.

We've seen Bianca get her heart broken by so many "bi-curious women" before. All I ask is that Bianca is "one of us." Strong, gay, and unashamed of what she likes. Instead of giving Bianca the love interest we want for her and have wanted for her since day one, they force us to accept her as a "bisexual female." There is NO skirting around the issue. If Bianca hooks up with Zarf, she is NOT GAY! And that defeats the entire purpose of what Agnes Nixon tried to do when they launched the character to begin with.

Nixon wouldn't mind introducing us to Zarf if this was her story. But she wouldn't want Zarf to be exploited as some kind of freak. And she sure as hell wouldn't pair him with Bianca.

Because I said so. LOL.

Also, because this is what people want to see...a sexually confused woman who declared herself gay and now is not so sure. It gives the impression to the audience that every gay person wants anything from the GLBT community. Single lesbian in town...single tranny in town...let's hook 'em up with each other. She's gay, it doesn't matter. She has no preferences whatsoever. And she was raped by a man. Surely she won't mind a creepy guy wearing makeup(raging hard-on included) getting into her face, is alone with her, meeting her daughter, etc.

The logic in this is just stupid.

The story *IS* bad. A creepy tranny candidate with NO family connections comes to town and is the prime suspect in the murder of two women and all of a sudden, kisses the town lesbian(who was brutally RAPED by a man) and forces her question her sexuality. That sounds like something out of a FOX NEWS Alert or a CourtTV re-enactment show.

No matter how you, the show, or the super loyal fans spin this, "Barf" is a bust.

EXACTLY!

Yeah, but the show is too chickens**t to do that. They would rather have Zarf come in and sweep Bianca(the sole town lesbian) off her feet and kill two birds with one stone instead of doing this from a more realistic and dramatic perspective.

[Canfan]

I think that is my main problem with the storyline as well. At this point it has become more of a question of Bianca's homosexuality than Zarf's trangenderism. If he dresses as a woman but still has a penis is he then a woman, and someone Bianca could potentially be with as a girlfriend? Thus in theory still making her still a lesbian. Some people have said yes. My question is why is Bianca his only possible love interest, because I have never seen her express any interest in a person with a penis before. Unless of course they are never actually going to present Bianca/Zoe as attempting to have sex. Seems to me likes its just another way to make the lesbian palatable to a large segment of the audience that is uncomfortable with the fact that she is gay. Either keep her celibate or pair her up with a male actor.

The purest gay agenda I am sure is to be presented/seen like everybody else except with a different preference in sexual partners than most of the population . I don't think that is what this storyline is highlighting at all. In fact to me it seems like they just want to throw the "two sexual freaks" together in one storyline. If anyone's got an agend its ABCD. They want to use two gay characters to generate some publicity and ratings. When the initial interest wans they will then just write them off into the figurative closet of the show. Its nothing more than a PT Barnum worthy stunt. Bianca has been out on the show for six years and the viewers have never seen her in a long term lesbian relationship onscreen. That is what is pissing off alot of people the most. She has never gotten equal character treatment in terms of romance as compared to the straight characters. Its not the transgender storyline its what its being used to accomplish onscreen. Keep the presentation of two female actresses being intimate off the tv. Sounds like more of a 'straight political agenda' to me.

I agree. Binks as a friend to Zoe is fine but not a girlfriend. Since Babe is of course so accepting of him with her open mind she should be his love interest. I am sure that has happened out there in the world to someone. Married woman leaves her husband for her transgenderd friend. I think that would actually benefit Babe's character more than hurt it but McTrash is too chicken to do that. She'll trash Bianca instead which is what she has been doing since she started writing for her. Bianca has gone from a headstrong, defiant proudly gay woman to a sexless, preachy doormat. I personally think she hates all the Kane women.

BTW If you are interested in the dynamics of lesbian sex you may want to check out some femslash sites. I doubt you will read much about the need for a penis there.

[Pine Charles]

Wow. Zarf is hot as a woman.

[Juliajms]

What if Zarf has the reassignment surgary? Then would people see Zarf as a "real" love interest for Bianca? If he doesn't who would it be ok for his love interest to be? As a straight woman I find JC very attractive, but I would never be with a guy who felt like a woman. If he hooks up with a straight man without the surgary it seems like the same as hooking up with Binks. If it's about body and soul then straight men shouldn't be any more attracted than a lesbian woman. So, it seems straight woman, straight men and lesbians are out. I guess that leaves gay men?

I don't know. Personally, I'm willing to see where this leads. We don't really know these two are going to be a couple for long. Maggie could come back and break them up at any point. And if he does have the surgary isn't he a woman body and soul anyway?