I don't think JR is crazy. I think he was drunk and stupid. Not crazy. As to Babe driving him to drink and driving him to push himself threw a window. He chose to do that all on his own. He chose to drink (again) and he chose to jump out the window when Erica and Bianca blocked the door. It was his choice and Babe didn't force him to do either. It's his fault he is in the mess because it's his fault for chooisng to take a drink and then jumping threw a window thinking he is super man.

Okay well I think Babe drove him crazy. Most sane people don't want to jump out of a window and as usual I see the circumstances that once again propelled him to drink caused the jump more than the actual drinking and regardless I think Babydoll pushed him to do both. No one actually "causes" anyone to do anything but they can certainly push you to it. I can easily say Michael didn't "cause" Bianca to blow his head off but she did in reaction to what he had done to her before. JR IMO is somewhat mentally out of sorts because of the things Babe has done to him and I stand by that and I use the throwing himself out of the window as the biggest confirmation to me. To me it's rather easy, he wasn't drinking OR throwing himself out of a window BEFORE Babe decided to get him to make a fool of himself for her and then tell him she was cheating and lied once again and then after he's drinking and leaping from a window. I don't see how she can't be added to the equation here. He wasn't magically on the wagon and in a good place and then magically not. To each their own I guess.

Umm usually you don't break into the hotel room of a person "you just want to talk with". Add that he told Bianca that someone had to "pay" and that she wouldn't see her brother ever again leds me to think that he wasn't there to play yahtzee. He was going to hurt Josh. According to what he said and due to his action of breaking and entering. Had Josh gone home earlier I have no doubt that Josh would be on that street because of JR.

Yeah he told Bianca someone had to "pay" and then he said for the Mini bar etc etc (like she said he was everywhere. Happy, sad, angry, depressed etc etc and that was NOT just from alcohol...that was from Babe's lovely news). If he was there to hurt Josh then I would have cheered for it and maybe he was but there IMO is no proof he was there to kill him and please don't even get me started on breaking and entering as some sort of confirmation that JR was there to kill Josh haha. If I used that then Josh is an axe murderer with as many times he's slithered his way into the Chandler tunnels uninvited to continue his pathetic stalking of Babe when he himself I think is somewhat off his rocker as well but I can't put that on her. I guess that's more on Tad more anyone for killing Madden like that. Although I DO think in some ways Babe plays with Josh's head as well, I just don't care because I think he's an idiotic jackass who for some reason thinks he's better than JR when in reality HE (not JR) does things completely unprovoked but his "Mother" and sisters are so into his propping he can't see this and with daddy jackass goading him on he's golden .

JR wasn't sad when he pushed those blocks on Kendell. He was happy. He was smiling and then he saw that it was Kendell on the ground and then he worried. He wasn't sad when he first pushed those blocks down he had a hint of a smirk growing it wasn't until he saw Kendell there that his face fell

I don't recall him smiling. I recall him thinking about all the good times with Babe and then he pushed it. Even Babe told him that she knew the reason he did it that way was so he wouldn't see her because she knew he still loved her. So I don't think he was smiling at all. And of course once again it was a time when she was lying her butt off and telling everyone in the whole town about it EXCEPT him, kinda like she did with this cheating thing. Sometime it makes me wonder if Adam in fact is correct and she slowly IS trying to drive JR insane. She sure makes a lot of slips that's for sure. To people who are all to happy to tell JR this stuff too.

According to what JR said he bragged about sleeping with a girl named Susie to Adam (on his wedding day)and saying he used Tad's name to cover it up.

Yeah I said that LOL. I said JR said he did that, I just said we never saw it and part of me doesn't believe it since eh it's been three years and he's only seemingly loved ONE woman in all the time he's been on the show and it's the blonde walking playground. But even if he HAD? like I said it was at a time when #1 he just found out he was even friggen married and didn't believe she loved him. VS her stabbing him in the back with her what 4 attempted cheattings (2 successful) and turning him against his siblings as icing on the cake. Like I said she doesn't = love to me in the least. Today I was glad most of the characters went in that direction as well. I mean at the very least we can say that she and JR have done things that aren't wonderful and yet it's been constantly JR = evil and Babe = goddess of love. I for one am glad we got a least one day where the choir was more for JR and calling her on HER crap.

As to JR's revenge he has tried to harm people several times.

He almost killed Tad when he almost shot him at gunpoint for not revealing Jaime's location, he beat Ryan several times with a tree branch which almost resulted in him dying according to Julia and Jaime, He kidnapped Krystal shot her and resulted in almost killing his mother Dixie all the while telling men he hired to shoot Babe if they saw her, then trying to kill Babe but getting Kendell instead and then trying to hurt/kill Josh in his hotel room.

Those aren't accidents those are real attempts on life. Those are attempted murders and I don't think any of his reasons make his action understandable.

Lets see I can go through this quickly. JR with Tad, Babe and Krystal was in attempts to get his son back each time. Doesn't = revenge it equals a father wanting his child and getting the child anyway he can (and really what parent wouldn't? Brooke shot a man in the back because she didn't like what he said for goodness sakes, Tad put a man in the ground, Bianca killed a man I could go on and on). Didn't mama Krystal basically do the same thing to Adam the day before on behalf of HER child? With the gun going off to boot as I recall. That's not revenge and the Ryan thing was basically for Kendall and lo and behold right after the Di situation (which is why I said to be fair Di and Dixie had some hand in his mental state) Not saying the Ryan thing was justified but it was right after the Di thing and it certainly wasn't even on JR's behalf so it couldn't possibly = revenge. So again when it was straight revenge it's been rather lame.

If Josh got a beatdown I would be all for it but in the end we can only speculate because JR didn't hurt the asinine jerk, he only hurt himself when he certainly was in a position TO hurt Bianca and Erica if he had wanted to. When he came at them he was trying to leave, they kept him locked in and then he leaped out the window and if you think Babe didn't have some hand in that well then we couldn't differ in our opinions. I certainly didn't see him trying to leap out the window the day before she decided to once again put a number on his psyche with her mind games. But that's just me

Good episode today...but Dixie is the LAST person who needs to be lecturing Babe. She's the one who had an affair with David. What a hypocrite. Ughh..

I just have to say that this is all JR's fault. Not Babe's, not Dixie's, not Bianca's, not Josh...JR's. He's an idiot and I wish he would just die.

Okay well I think Babe drove him

We'll I guess were just going to have to continue to disagree. I don't think JR is crazy and I don't think Babe drove him to do it. Overall JR had a choice weither to drink or not and he chose to drink. He could have stopped himself when ever he wanted to but he chose not to. He could have chosen not to break into Josh's room but again he chose to break into the room. He could of chose not to threaten Bianca but he chose to. I'm noticing a pattern here. He had a choice and he chose to do what he did.

Babe didn't make him and while her cheating on him may have hurt him it doesn't excuse him of drinking and trying to commit yet another act of violence. So I don't think Babe is to be blammed for something JR chose to do. No more then I think Dixie is to blame for Tad killing Greg or Kendell for Bianca's rape. But JMO.

I don't think JR is insane or mentally deranged. I have never seen that and the show hasn't given us any hints of that at all. Jonathan and Janet are insane. I don't see JR as that because the show hasn't shown it. They haven't had him hearing voices, they haven't had him seeing illusions, talking to himself, raging psychosis, ect. They haven't shown him to be insane. So I don't see him as such. Janet yes, Jon yes, JR no.

I don't see him as crazy.

JR told Bianca that someone had to pay and he said that twice to Bianca the first time he said the mini bar the second time he told her that everyone who knew about Babe and Josh had to pay. That was when he started threatening her and Kendell saying that he was going to make them pay for destroying his marriage. He also said that he would tell Josh Bianca step by but then said that "He wouldn't make it" under his breath. Which Bianca caught. It's obvious that JR was going to hurt Josh.

What I am saying is there have been several times when JR has tried almost killed people and it not been an accident. Several times where he almost killed a person due to excessive force and because he wanted to do it. That is my point. It's the fact that he almost kills people and ment to do it as opposed to what you posted (saying all of them were in some form accident's which isn't true).

Good episode today...but Dixie is the LAST person who needs to be lecturing Babe. She's the one who had an affair with David. What a hypocrite. Ughh..

I just have to say that this is all JR's fault. Not Babe's, not Dixie's, not Bianca's, not Josh...JR's. He's an idiot and I wish he would just die.

ICAM!

I'm a part of Team Babe, so I felt bad for her. But she knows what she did was wrong. But JR hasn't been great to her all the time. Look at what he's done to her - what they've done to both. I was cracking up when Adam punched Jeff. Good ep.

Babe had so many options before this latest Slutbag move of hers. She dropped the charges against JR after the construction site, thing. And then she CHOSE to go back to him and give their marriage another chance.

She knew what she was getting into and who she was getting into it with.

Feeling sorry for Babe is utter bullsh!t because it's like feeling sorry for someone who runs into a burning building with gasoline draws on after having been burned twice before.

At what point does that Whorebag take responsibility for any of her own actions -- and MEAN it? She'll say it, but she'll never mean it. She expects everyone to just let things go all because she says, "I'm sorry. I was wrong," and then proceeds to do the same thing OVER and OVER again!

She lies, she cheats, she manipulates, she makes the same foolish decisions over and over again, and then plays the poor little Skankbag role when people don't simply get over the crap she pulls.

Yes, we can debate JR's responsibility in his own decision making process as an alcoholic -- but if Babe knew he was an alcoholic, and made her decisions which she knew would be triggers for him to act out... how can everything honestly be JR's fault?

"That's like lighting the fuse and getting mad at the dynamite."

-Niecey Jackson (Shar Jackson), 'Moesha'

Babe is a herpies queen. I hope she infects Bianca and Josh since they like to lick her coochie as if it were ice cream on a hot summer day. Choke on one of the hairs you wing on, Binks and Josh!

Adam needs to throw Krystal in a well.

Yes, we can debate JR's responsibility in his own decision making process as an alcoholic -- but if Babe knew he was an alcoholic, and made her decisions which she knew would be triggers for him to act out... how can everything honestly be JR's fault?

Well I look at it this way. Bianca was cheated on and she didn't fly threw a window. She handled it calmly and maturely and was an adult about it. JR however chose to act differently.

I disagree with Babe driving JR to do anything because I don't believe JR can't act out differently then what he chose to do. He had the choice to act differently and he chose not to. He has a brain, a mind of his own that has access to higher thought processes. He could of stopped all this from happening if he just chose not to drink, break into hotel rooms, threaten people and then launch himself out of a window.

I don't buy the alchoalics don't have a choice and hard things force them to drink and no AA sponser would let that person get away with that or use that as an excuse. They have a choice to drink or not and they ultimately choose to drink. No one can force another person to do something or drive a person to do something. Ultimately JR's desicions are his and Babe can't be blammed for something JR chose to do.

JR is his own person and he makes his own choices. Something that other's can't be blammed for.

Well I look at it this way. Bianca was cheated on and she didn't fly threw a window. She handled it calmly and maturely and was an adult about it. JR however chose to act differently.

I disagree with Babe driving JR to do anything because I don't believe JR can't act out differently then what he chose to do. He had the choice to act differently and he chose not to. He has a brain, a mind of his own that has access to higher thought processes. He could of stopped all this from happening if he just chose not to drink, break into hotel rooms, threaten people and then launch himself out of a window.

I don't buy the alchoalics don't have a choice and hard things force them to drink and no AA sponser would let that person get away with that or use that as an excuse. They have a choice to drink or not and they ultimately choose to drink. No one can force another person to do something or drive a person to do something. Ultimately JR's desicions are his and Babe can't be blammed for something JR chose to do.

JR is his own person and he makes his own choices. Something that other's can't be blammed for.

Since you want to keep using Bianca as an example, is Bianca an alcoholic who has issues with trust and intimacy and has been lied to and cheated on repeatedly by Maggie? She was raped. Yes, it was horrible. But nobody sat around and picked sides and determined if Michael violating her was her fault or not, and nobody blamed her for reacting the way she did. Pushing Lena away, lying to her mother, covering up the pregnancy, etc. She had people rally around her and support her. She knew she was loved, and she knew that she wasn't alone.

JR, on the other hand, has been lied to and betrayed by Babe, Jamie, Tad, Dixie and Di... and when he acts out, everyone tells him, "Yeah, we lied to you countless times to cover our own asses, but so what? You need to get over it!" He didn't have people rally around him and support him. He felt disrespected, disregarded and alone. So, for him to move past all of that, and let Babe in -- at her request, mind you -- after all the times she's betrayed that trust only to have her turn right around and do it again?

And your attitude about JR's alcoholism resembles that of a person who doesn't have the disease or hasn't lived closely with someone who does. I don't know you, so I'm not saying that you have or you haven't -- only your response resembles that of a person who hasn't.

As a person who's dealt with alcoholism in my life, I KNOW what Babe was doing was extremely reckless. JR was in his infancy stages of sobriety, yet she turned his transference issues (JR transfering his need to hit the bottle during an emotionally stressful time into being proactive in the search for Colby) into All About Babe's Need to Feel Needed, and used it to justify her adultry.

Now, people who actually KNOW about the disease can testify that Babe's thought process leading up to her actions (her ego's not being stroked so she sleeps with Josh in that damned wading pool) were horrible and one hundred percent selfish. Sure, she can mask it by saying she was concerned for JR because he wasn't letting her in, but that's rubbish. If her concern and love for JR were genuine, she would've known that JR would've needed to have his wife be a trustworthy tower of support, and that if she just waited, he would come to realize he needs her -- which he did. He realized shutting her out wasn't fair and he opened up to her. He beared his personal demons to her, in an effort to show her that he trusted her and needed her. But, she didn't have faith in their relationship, thereby allowing her to make the decision to be unfaithful. She ran to another man the moment things stopped being peachy.

What the Babe Lovers are also failing to realize, it wasn't JUST the fact that Babe slept with Josh that sent JR over the edge -- it was Babe's additional confession of her LOVING Josh, too! Here he is, making and effort to trust this woman, love this woman and further build a family with this woman, and she's going to confess that she loves another man?

What in the HELL was JR supposed to do with that?! I'm not asking about Bianca. She'll just sit by and wait until Maggie finishes taste-testing Parisian coochie, and then pick up the leftovers. What in the hell was JR Chandler supposed to do? Just shrug it off, and allow his wife to be in love with him AND her lover as well? No! He's his father's son, which makes him a man of action. Do I agree with his actions? No. I wish he didn't get drunk and react the way he did. But do I understand his need to fight back after having been hurt again? Absolutely.

JR's condition/hospitalization/whatever is his fault and his only. He chose to act this way and chose to jump out the window and be an ass and to be the stupidest person on the planet. No one forced him to do this or react this way. I didn't see Bianca fly off any buildings when she found out Maggie cheated nor did I see her try and attack Maggie's lover.

Adam and Dixie never made Jr. accountable for any of his mistakes. They are to blame for him acting like a spoiled child. He uses any excuse to do want he wants to do,dive into a bottle and hurt someone. Jr. needs to grow up and start excepting responsibilty for his actions. he tried to when he almost killed Kendall and her son but his stupid Mother rescued him again. Please if he ever paid for any of his crimes I might have sympathy for him but I don't now.

Singing for the deaf, dancing for the blind.

"What'd you say?" "I can't see nothin'!"

Babe had so many options before this latest Slutbag move of hers. She dropped the charges against JR after the construction site, thing. And then she CHOSE to go back to him and give their marriage another chance.

She knew what she was getting into and who she was getting into it with.

Feeling sorry for Babe is utter bullsh!t because it's like feeling sorry for someone who runs into a burning building with gasoline draws on after having been burned twice before.

At what point does that Whorebag take responsibility for any of her own actions -- and MEAN it? She'll say it, but she'll never mean it. She expects everyone to just let things go all because she says, "I'm sorry. I was wrong," and then proceeds to do the same thing OVER and OVER again!

She lies, she cheats, she manipulates, she makes the same foolish decisions over and over again, and then plays the poor little Skankbag role when people don't simply get over the crap she pulls.

Yes, we can debate JR's responsibility in his own decision making process as an alcoholic -- but if Babe knew he was an alcoholic, and made her decisions which she knew would be triggers for him to act out... how can everything honestly be JR's fault?

"That's like lighting the fuse and getting mad at the dynamite."

-Niecey Jackson (Shar Jackson), 'Moesha'

So much WORD!

Since you want to keep using Bianca as an example, is Bianca an alcoholic who has issues with trust and intimacy and has been lied to and cheated on repeatedly by Maggie? She was raped. Yes, it was horrible. But nobody sat around and picked sides and determined if Michael violating her was her fault or not, and nobody blamed her for reacting the way she did. Pushing Lena away, lying to her mother, covering up the pregnancy, etc. She had people rally around her and support her. She knew she was loved, and she knew that she wasn't alone.

JR, on the other hand, has been lied to and betrayed by Babe, Jamie, Tad, Dixie and Di... and when he acts out, everyone tells him, "Yeah, we lied to you countless times to cover our own asses, but so what? You need to get over it!" He didn't have people rally around him and support him. He felt disrespected, disregarded and alone. So, for him to move past all of that, and let Babe in -- at her request, mind you -- after all the times she's betrayed that trust only to have her turn right around and do it again?

And your attitude about JR's alcoholism resembles that of a person who doesn't have the disease or hasn't lived closely with someone who does. I don't know you, so I'm not saying that you have or you haven't -- only your response resembles that of a person who hasn't.

As a person who's dealt with alcoholism in my life, I KNOW what Babe was doing was extremely reckless. JR was in his infancy stages of sobriety, yet she turned his transference issues (JR transfering his need to hit the bottle during an emotionally stressful time into being proactive in the search for Colby) into All About Babe's Need to Feel Needed, and used it to justify her adultry.

Now, people who actually KNOW about the disease can testify that Babe's thought process leading up to her actions (her ego's not being stroked so she sleeps with Josh in that damned wading pool) were horrible and one hundred percent selfish. Sure, she can mask it by saying she was concerned for JR because he wasn't letting her in, but that's rubbish. If her concern and love for JR were genuine, she would've known that JR would've needed to have his wife be a trustworthy tower of support, and that if she just waited, he would come to realize he needs her -- which he did. He realized shutting her out wasn't fair and he opened up to her. He beared his personal demons to her, in an effort to show her that he trusted her and needed her. But, she didn't have faith in their relationship, thereby allowing her to make the decision to be unfaithful. She ran to another man the moment things stopped being peachy.

What the Babe Lovers are also failing to realize, it wasn't JUST the fact that Babe slept with Josh that sent JR over the edge -- it was Babe's additional confession of her LOVING Josh, too! Here he is, making and effort to trust this woman, love this woman and further build a family with this woman, and she's going to confess that she loves another man?

What in the HELL was JR supposed to do with that?! I'm not asking about Bianca. She'll just sit by and wait until Maggie finishes taste-testing Parisian coochie, and then pick up the leftovers. What in the hell was JR Chandler supposed to do? Just shrug it off, and allow his wife to be in love with him AND her lover as well? No! He's his father's son, which makes him a man of action. Do I agree with his actions? No. I wish he didn't get drunk and react the way he did. But do I understand his need to fight back after having been hurt again? Absolutely.

WORD!

Best episode of AMC in quite awhile. Loved Adam hitting Jonathan while pushing Babe, and then him hitting Jeff.

I now once again hate Krystal. She's a lying slut and a hypocrite. Threatening to take her and "Adam's" daughter away from him, even though she's a slut that slept with Tad and is preganant with Tad's baby. Like mom 'ho like daughter 'ho. I so wish Krystal and Babe would be killed off, but probably won't be ever.

R. Sinclair a great, great, great post and so TRUE. JR's the victim and Babe is a total b i t c h, ho and hypocrite.