Reverend Ruthledge

Yes, once again we see things eye to eye when it comes to the soaps. When I mentioned back from the dead nonsense, I wasn't just talking about "presumed" dead. That's bad enough when overdone but it is at least somewhat realistic. I'm talking about characters that have literally died and then been brought back to life through some serum or something silly like that.

The Ice Princess, I believe, was the introduction of stupid sci fi/fantasy crap invading soap operas. Like a cancer, it unfortunately spread over the years. I think Days was intelligent until 1983. I'll never forget the moment Eugene Bradford made a talking robot who became a character. I remember thinking, this doesn't look good for the show. And I was a kid then! Sure enough, that signaled the beginning of the end for Days being an intelligent, realistic show. That was the same year that Renee DiMera was murdered and her murder was so well-written that I thought, "Ok. Maybe the Eugene/robot thing was just a blip." Then, people started ripping off masks and coming back from the dead and it's been downhill ever since. But I think Days of Our Lives from 1965-1982 was excellence! If THAT show was still on the air today, I'd be happy. But in the odd times I tune into the show now (usually for the death of a vet), it's just unrecognizable. And I'm not talking about the new characters. They just went campy and never got back to their serious, realistic drama. Is there any character on that show who hasn't come back from the dead at least once? Except when a vet dies in real life, no death has any meaning on that show.

How does one get "Bernadette" out of "Bertha"? Weird. I guess it's not anymore weird than "Berta" and "B.B.".

It's no wonder I grew up so neurotic. I was watching some very traumatic things as a child! LOL.

Now that you say this, it's coming back to me. I remember that he had intended to rape Chris now. Wow. I hadn't thought of that in 50 years. Your memory is incredible. Even when I remember things, it's often distorted because I mix things up. Sometimes I've even imagined things that didn't happen. I guess that's a good sign that I have a creative mind but it makes memories less reliable. I would imagine if they ever stream the old shows of Y&R and DOOL that a flood of memories would come back to me as I watch them.

Ok. So, I guess it was Peggy that I remember. I guess I remember Chris' shower flashback. I vaguely remember Chris looking at Peggy and knowing what was up even though Peggy wasn't letting anyone know. These memories are very vague. I don't trust them.

You gave me flashbacks of having to get to the student lounge early enough to turn the channel to CBS before ATWT came on. It was ALWAYS turned to ABC. If I remember correctly, I always had to watch the end of All My Children or whatever was on and turn the channel immediately before any One Life to Live or whatever came in. I may be getting the shows confused. Anyway, I remember people walking in, giving me a dirty look and then walking out. I remember thinking, "You don't know what you're missing".

Oh yes, I would definitely include the 70s in the golden era. I think I was just too naive to know that I was in the golden era in the 70s. Otherwise, I would have watched a lot more soaps. Y&R and DOOL were the only ones I watched and that only started because that's what my babysitter watched. I'm glad she had good taste. I didn't realize at the time how great it was that I was watching these show first-hand during the last golden decade. I actually think, in retrospect, that the 70s was the best decade ever for soap operas. I would also include AW in the group of best-written soaps during the 70s. However, I think the decade just gets tainted for me because so much started going really south starting in the middle of the decade. But I actually think AW from 1964-1975 is soap opera at, perhaps, its finest. To be honest, I might be confusing Chris and Peggy's rape storyline. It's a faint memory. However, I think it was Peggy. It was whoever was raped by Ron Becker because I remember him. And I remember whoever it was, Peggy or Chris, compulsively showering. Not sure why I remember that. Stood out to me as interesting as a child for whatever reason. Now that you mention Lorie telling Leslie that nobody will believe her because she was mentally ill, a very faint memory of that came back to me. I think I saw that as well.

Great thread idea, vetsoapfan. You are wealth of information having seen so much. I envy you. Unfortunately, I was born too late to enjoy the golden years of the soaps but I was alive to see the 70s. I think the mid-late 80s was golden for ATWT but there were too many things I remember seeing from that time period to name. Although I wish I had seen ATWT and TGL in the 70s, I did see what were probably the two best-written soaps in the 70s and they were Y&R and DOOL. I remember mostly moments as opposed to storylines and the moments I remember were the most sensational (since they stood out the most in a kid's memory). I remember: Kay Chancellor driving herself and Phillip off the cliff Peggy Brooks' rape Lorie slamming the piano key lid down on Leslie's fingers while she was playing the piano Vanessa and her veil Julie Anderson getting her face burned (I think she wore a veil for a while also) Trish Clayton bashing her stepfather over the head with an iron Stephanie Woodruff purposely burning her hands on a hot skillet to burn off her fingerprints Laura Horton going insane, putting Jennifer Rose alone on a bus, and then hanging herself Margo Horton waving goodbye to the Hortons as Mike drove her off to die Linda Phillips taking Mike Horton to bed to prove he wasn't gay As far as whole storylines, I remember vividly watching the Salem Strangler storyline which I loved. I was not a fan of the subsequent serial killer storylines but thought the first one was very well-written. There are many more but those are the scenes I remember seeing first-hand. Looking at the list, it's all pretty morbid but, as a kid, those things were what stood out to me more than the sweet and romantic moments. I've never been a fan of romance which people who find out I love soap operas don't understand (most people who don't watch soaps only equate them with romance).

Very ironic since the show began with a Jewish family as the core family.

No.

I think it was Scott Bryce who said that Oakdale Memorial must have had the best coffee in town because everybody would just hang out there in the cafeteria all the time whether or not they worked there or knew somebody there who was a patient.

Ok. Thanks for clarifying that. I didn't whole-heartedly believe that when I read it. It's good not to believe something false.

It always baffled me why new writers were so reluctant to bring back old characters. Then, I read that writers always wanted to introduced new characters because they would be paid future royalties for their own creations. I don't know if it that's true or not but that would explain a lot. Of course, these new creations would often be horrible characters who wouldn't stick around for a long time anyway and just weakened the show and drive away viewers. So, it would have been a bit of a false economy if that was the motivation to create new characters and ignore old characters.

You've captured the very essence of what I think set daytime soap operas apart and made them great. Funny how so few of those involved in soap operas after the pioneers in the industry were gone failed to grasp that concept.

That's pretty much all they did. Be born. Annie left town with them shortly after she gave birth. They did come to Chris and Nancy's 50th anniversary party though. There were two boys and two girls.

Various locations. I get most of my scripts from the University of Wisconsin.

Reading scripts. I WISH it was by watching episodes!

Yeah, everybody's different. I like more realism than fantasy when it comes to soaps but that's just me. Addie Horton, Bill Bauer and Claire Lowell are just a few of the examples of legacy characters whose deaths were respectable and worked. If I thought about it, I would probably think of a lot more. I'm also thinking Lee Randolph although I know I differ with a lot of people on that as well.

I'm only about 90% sure of this but I believe it's not the original Lowell house where Judge and Alice Lowell lived and raised Jim. After Jim died, Claire gets Judge Lowell to move in with her and Ellen (into the house she had with Jim) and sell his house. I'm actually in the part of the story where Claire's trying to convince Judge Lowell to sell his house. Once I get further in the story, I'll probably become 100% sure that the house Claire and Doug lived in was NOT Judge Lowell's house.

For what it's worth, I have a different opinion. And it's not worth much because it's just one person's opinion. LOL. But I don't have a problem with legacy characters dying on soaps because I want my soaps to be as close to real life as possible and, in real life, "legacy people" die. As long as it's written well. That's my only request. I'm even of the very small minority that didn't mind Maureen Bauer being killed off. My objection is that it was all for naught. It was not written well after the initial storyline ended. And that was almost immediately after her death. Ed became a non-entity. The Eve romance went nowhere. The Bauers were diminished. There have been many spouses of core family members who have died but it just created more story (I'm thinking Jennifer Hughes, for example). The Maureen death just seemed kind of pointless in retrospect. But the death of a legacy character can be good story and is true to life. I didn't even have a problem when they killed off two of my favorite legacy characters (Bill Bauer and Claire Lowell). It was good story and they were able to move on from it with more good stories and more good characters. When I refer to Bill Bauer's death, I'm referring to his first death. As much as I loved the character, I wish they would have kept him dead and not bring him back. It really served no purpose to do so and his ultimate death was such an insult to the character and the history of the show. Anyway, I would much rather a legacy character die then fade away like they never existed (which is what happens to so many legacy characters). That seems more offensive to me.

Thank you, FrenchFan.

I've never equated large audience numbers with artistic excellence. In any genre.

I totally agree. I think Monty was one of the worst things that ever happened to daytime.

And did Glory really say there are so many people who want to be raped? I know she was joking but...wow.