28 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Yes, this. Again, while at the time when the AMC 1995 episodes were airing I think fans were already calling out the show for losing some of what made it so special. And yet, watching now, we still have SO many of these wonderful types of scenes that add nothing to the plot, but add tremendously to the sense of a lived reality (and, with the right actors, are enjoyable to watch.) Stuff like Peggy (played by the wonderful Ann Meara) and her interactions while working at Wildwind, Myrtle mocking Marian and Enid Nelson when they come into her dress shop, Jackson talking about how much he enjoyed the Summers as a kid in the South, just to name three moments in the episodes that aired this week. I have no idea why these types of scenes and dialogue seem so absent from soaps (and have for a long time now,) because they really don't seem difficult to do. So I can only assume that the powers that be feel they are a waste of time now...

I think part of the reason is because soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays, whereas now they just attract people who are more focused on the parody of a soap. That whole Carlivati or Giddens mentality is soulless.

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

I think part of the reason is because soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays, whereas now they just attract people who are more focused on the parody of a soap. That whole Carlivati or Giddens mentality is soulless.

Right--when you read about the ABC writers workshop program (whatever it was called) they would send finders/feelers looking out everywhere, at new play festivals and contests, etc. Now it does seem to just be insular--soap writers come from soap viewers, often even it seems that being their only qualification. (No offence to Giddens, or Carlivati for that matter, but did they have ANY experience writing in any other format?)

On 6/6/2026 at 5:16 AM, Soaplovers said:

One thing that BTG has done right is presenting a character like Kat, who isn't pre-occupied with sex.. and when she did lose her virginity, it was realistically done because some people don't have these magical first time experiences with sex. And there was a process where she had to learn to kind of get into having sex with her partner that was relatable. Even though she's a Have character, I think she's probably one of the best written and realistic characters.. someone that means well.. but sometimes is blinded by her privlege and ends up doing the wrong thing. If her on screen partner could act.. I would say that they have a good rapport because the conversations they have are semi realistic.. but it would be nice if she didn't have to do all the heavy lifting.

@Taoboi I actually think Kat is my favorite on this soap.

I agree. Kat is the most layered, well-written character on that show. In fact, she's the only reason I watch these days. And the funny thing is I don't even think she's the writers' favorite character to write for. I think it was just by chance they conveyed all their most genuine stories into her, the actress is solid and voila, you have a great character.

11 hours ago, DRW50 said:

I think part of the reason is because soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays, whereas now they just attract people who are more focused on the parody of a soap. That whole Carlivati or Giddens mentality is soulless.

Very well said.

12 hours ago, DRW50 said:

soaps used to attract writers who wrote books and plays

Danielle Paige writes for BTG. She is a published author.

Cheryl L. Davis writes for BTG. She is a playwright and a musical theater librettist. Ms. Davis was just appointed to the board of Cady McClain's Axial Theatre in New York.

1 hour ago, janea4old said:

Danielle Paige writes for BTG. She is a published author.

Cheryl L. Davis writes for BTG. She is a playwright and a musical theater librettist. Ms. Davis was just appointed to the board of Cady McClain's Axial Theatre in New York.

No one likes a know it all.

True, those particular individuals have outside writing credits... but the vast majority of those in charge of the writers rooms are insulated and not hired from the outside the soap genre.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by Soaplovers

15 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

though by the mid 90s Pine Valley was centred around three extremely rich households (the Chandlers, the Wildwind group and, though featured less heavily by now, the Cortlands... I suppose Phoebe Tyler is still around as well, although the Tylers were no longer much of a presence,) there still was an attempt to show a lot of middle class and even poor characters and families. It's debatable how well this is handled

We were a long way from the early Nixon OLTL with the structure of the show set up around the wealthy Lord family and the working class Woleks, but there was still more verisimilitude inherent in the settings and situations.

That mid 90’s period is a fascinating place because you can kind of see the shift happening on many of the soaps. Up to that point I feel like we saw the characters working more. Even someone wealthy like Erica had scenes taking place at Enchantment, or Liza/Tad producing the talk show. Homes were staged differently, the decor and style of Wildwind was not at all the same as Adam Chandler’s home. Victor Newman was an incredibly wealthy tycoon surrounded by rich folks. But they still went to work! Ashley was still in the lab developing new formulas, Neil was an executive but still learning from Victor and not in the same place economically yet, we saw Ryan start in the mailroom! We saw them launch new lines at Jabot.

On GH of the same era Luke’s club was clearly not in the best part of town and we saw him and Mike behind the bar, we still saw scenes of the doctors at work at GH like Kevin with therapy patients, Mac and Felicia took turns at The Outback, etc. Britt living above Bobbie’s recently was just used as another gimmick to show how far she had fallen. Nobody lived there next to her to show any semblance of dignity about having the kind of life where you did live someplace like that, even short term.

I think somewhere along the way soap showrunners/networks decided this was all mundane, and as they became more plot driven and focused on easy network approvals (like pregnancy stories and baby switches), the basics have just been leached out. I just think those little details matter, even if the story isn’t about that.

His overall run did not work out, but by simply paying more attention to emotional weight and better scripting Patrick Mulcahey made me care about Dante and Sam on GH as a couple in like two days and before that they were just there doing nothing.

Writing for sets already up, regurgitating plot without any character specificity, not being able to use the canvas fully, and revolving the shows around generic settings has hurt the genre. But these shows used to star actors that did their own wardrobes because they were wearing their own clothes. It’s not just a budget problem.

15 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

but I did love how with the Hulu All My Children they finally addressed abortion in a relatively honest and layered way (and despite showing different sides of it--in this case Angie not approving of the act itself--they still went through with the abortion because it was right for the character of Cassandra and her situation

They explored the story from multiple sides. Yes it was a controversial topic, but they explored it. The reason Lulu’s abortion stood out to me at the time (besides even touching the subject) was they didn’t sugar coat it either, even though the circumstances were different. She was young, was surrounded by people with money who could have had the baby cared for, and they still supported her through the procedure and the story because it was about bodily autonomy. That would be unheard of in 2026. It’s also very real too.

15 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Watching so much of 1995 AMC, and this might be more in hindsight, Erica still works for me even if she is not "acting her age." But she works because she is still at this point the exception on the soap, is completely in character (some people simply do NOT mature, especially if they never have to,) and it's even pointed out by other characters

We also saw her growth and then the show start to regress her. You could argue in character that Mona’s death caused her to break down in such a way that she lost some of that hard earned maturity she had been given. I think part of why there were some bts issues with SMG’s Kendall is that it inherently aged Erica closer to reality physically and that period of time also did it emotionally, and they decided to pull back from that. I think her accident and addiction story also showed Erica having her own kind of maturity, and then the baby story kind of erases all that.

It’s a tough business for women as they age. Jackie Zeman’s Bobbie becomes the mother to Carly and a grandmother within like two years, and then undergoes a fairly significant and noticeable cosmetic procedure, grows her hair out and died it darker red and started being styled more sexy. The show also froze Lucas in age until they were not really writing for Bobbie anymore, and barely used him anyway as a teen, so we didn’t see her dealing with any of that. An older person should feel as sexy as they want to, I don’t fault that. But because TPTB began to stunt characters like Erica and Bobbie at mid 30’s to 40’s waiting to SORAS their kids (see also Sharon & Nick on Y&R, Hope on DAYS, etc), everything is out of whack. Again, I’m not saying all these older characters should have become Alice Horton. Alan and Monica for example were believable grandparents for their characters, but they still matured them away from the kinds of things Victor and Nikki had to endure starting in the mid 90’s on, or Tom and Margo, or Marlena , the patron saint of characters forced to repeatedly be de-aged mentally until Will came out of the closet!