4 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

This is my issue.  I admit sometimes I don't watch the show super closely but I thought Hayley was a *childhood* or at least teenage friend of Naomi's??  Wasn't part of the betrayal that as an orphan she kinda grew up in their household or at least was always around?  But now it seems retconned to Naomi befriending her at the gym (presumably as adults?)  I mean she had to be an adult right if she had already grifted in similar ways several men as she said today?

There were several pages of discussing this in one of the SON monthly discussion threads in the early months of the show.  It was interesting how different posters perceived the length of time of Hayley's backhistory with the family.

My understanding/interpretation back then was that both Andre and Hayley had each lost their parents as young adults, in unrelated circumstances.   But their circumstances were quite different, even though they each mentored by a Dupree sister -- Nicole and Dani.

Andre was taken in by his biological uncle Ted and aunt-by-marriage Nicole -- but he was already an adult -- but they provided the mentorship/support that he needed. They didn't adopt him or raise him, but supplied the emotional support he needed.  Ted and Nicole became sort of like parents to Andre in the early years after his real parents' deaths before the show started. Then Andre left town with his inheritance to travel the world as a photographer.   Andre had just returned to Fairmont Crest for a visit when the show started in February, but then he decided to stay.  Now Uncle Ted and Aunt Nicole are more like older peers to him, it seems.

Hayley's story (which is now likely a hoax) -- but anyways, as I understood it back then:
Hayley's backstory in the early months of the show (Mentioned by other characters as having happened at some point years before the show started) . . . 
--  was that Hayley came to town after losing her parents as a young adult, and also Naomi thought of her as a best friend.  Naomi would invited Hayley over for dinner at Dani and Bill's house, so she sort of became an honorary member of the family.  *Maybe* Hayley stayed at Bill&Dani's house for a short while as she supposedly had nowhere to go, or *maybe* she had her own place but sometimes stayed overnight in a guest room after dinner or whatever.

I clearly remember Dani mentioning that she(Dani) had begun to have befriended Hayley herself, which made the Bill/Haley affair worse.  Dani wasn't friends with any of Bill's other women.
I got the impression Dani had *NOT* been acting in any maternal role towards Hayley.  Dani regarded herself as an older friend of Hayley's, whereas Naomi thought of Hayley as a peer and close friend/best friend.    But Dani did mentor Hayley and saw that Hayley was smart and had "potential".  (LOL).  I think Dani was the one who encouraged Bill to hire Hayley? ? ? 

Bill had been having affairs with other women all along, but Dani had known about it and had tolerated it. What upset Dani and the other characters was that they learned that Bill had been bringing Hayley into his bedroom, and that Bill and Hayley had been having sex in the bed he shared with his wife Dani.  (All of Bill's prior sexual affairs had been at other locations and not in his own home).

I think the confusion for viewers was:
Dani and Naomi kept stating in the early weeks of the show their outrage about Hayley's affair with Bill: "We took her in, and then she betrayed us!"  Maybe remarks implying she was in the bosom of the family, etc.  That and her supposed backstory of being an orphan, gave some viewers the impression that she'd been taken in by the Duprees as a child or teen and was a true member of the family for many many years.
But I think "we took her in" was meant metaphorically as "we took her into our hearts" or "we took her into our inner circle" and *not* that they adopted her.

They *never* said she'd been with the Dupree-Hamiltons since her child or teen years.
And they hadn't said it was *many* years.   Now it seems that it was just long enough for Hayley to get her hooks into the family and for them to treat her like family -- and she was entrenched in a relatively short period of time.  She works long cons, but she works them efficiently -- just long enough to be effective.  Perhaps the characters saying "We took you in" caused viewers to assume that it was a longer period of time than it actually was?

I really don't think Hayley was living with Dani and Bill when the affair began -- but that was never clarified so I cannot be positive.  Perhaps Hayley lived elsewhere but she hung out at Bill&Dani's house a lot, so it was easier to sneak her into the bedroom for a quickie?

At any rate, it's clear NOW that Hayley might be older than what some characters thought; and she is certainly older than what the viewers assumed.

Edited October 16Oct 16 by janea4old

14 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

With everyone questioning the timeline for Hayley making inroads into the Dupree family and how they assumed she had known the family for a long time.  I think we just assumed that, but Derek had previously mentioned that he/Ashley were just getting to know her when the whole affair with Bill went down.  And it has been stated that Ashley had known Naomi for a long time and that Derek/Jacob had been friends for a long time... so had Hayley been in the picture a long time, Derek/Ashley would have known her better.

Good points.

8 hours ago, Paul Raven said:

The twist is good but turning Hayley into a total scheming villianess is limiting in some ways. We will all now be waiting for her comeuppance whereas if she were a little more grey then there would be more mileage. Hayley needed more colors, for sure, but too make her so calculating?

 

 

I think sometimes we jump too far ahead into what the inevitable conclusion of a storyline will be instead of just enjoying the journey. They still have time to add more colors to Hayley and there is still so much for her to do before being exposed.

5 hours ago, EricMontreal22 said:

This is my issue.  I admit sometimes I don't watch the show super closely but I thought Hayley was a *childhood* or at least teenage friend of Naomi's??  Wasn't part of the betrayal that as an orphan she kinda grew up in their household or at least was always around?  But now it seems retconned to Naomi befriending her at the gym (presumably as adults?)  I mean she had to be an adult right if she had already grifted in similar ways several men as she said today?

They made it seem like Dani was a second mother figure to her which would have implied that she was younger when she first joined this family. The reveal makes it seem like she's only been around 2-3 years tops and Naomi would have already been out the house

 

Now that Ive thought about it more, I sure hope they know what htey are doing bc I think I prefer had the reveal been that she's been a golddigger. She genuinely did fall for Bill but her motivation was money and security which she never had as an orphan. Making her a con artist with this long criminal history is quite a bit much

Edited October 16Oct 16 by Cheap21

4 hours ago, Vee said:

I think several of us thought that. I'm not sure I recall any explicit confirmation of that though and I think what they're going with is they met in college. I'm good with it.

They never gave any sort of confirmation that they were childhood friends, people assumed it. But in real life you can literally become besties after a few months so it’s not far fetched at all. This is one of those things fans do, they assume something, and then get upset their assumption was false.

1 hour ago, Soaplovers said:

With everyone questioning the timeline for Hayley making inroads into the Dupree family and how they assumed she had known the family for a long time.  I think we just assumed that, but Derek had previously mentioned that he/Ashley were just getting to know her when the whole affair with Bill went down.  And it has been stated that Ashley had known Naomi for a long time and that Derek/Jacob had been friends for a long time... so had Hayley been in the picture a long time, Derek/Ashley would have known her better.

Also, did we all forget how quickly Naomi helped June out?  It was a mere few months and now June is making friends with the other Duprees so I can buy Hayley being quickly welcomed with open arms into the Dupree family.

Also, remember that Nicole hired Eva as her personal assistant and quickly treated her like part of the family all because of a good reference from Mona.  And let's remember that Mona had only known SPS and Eva for at least a year or so.

I think the Duprees are to blame for all these grifters and cons being pulled on them because they're too trusting.  You'd think they would be a little more leery of June considering what Hayley/Ted/Eva all have pulled on them LOL

You just summed it up perfectly.

38 minutes ago, Antoyne said:

But in real life you can literally become besties after a few months so it’s not far fetched at all.

true

If you consider how quickly Nicole embraced Eva and how willing Chelsea was to extend Eva enough grace to consider her a cousin post reveal it's obvious that the Duprees are supposed to be the embracing type. Hayley portraying herself as having no family would have been a quick, easy in with them.

36 minutes ago, ReddFoxx said:

If you consider how quickly Nicole embraced Eva and how willing Chelsea was to extend Eva enough grace to consider her a cousin post reveal it's obvious that the Duprees are supposed to be the embracing type. Hayley portraying herself as having no family would have been a quick, easy in with them.

Exactly. 2-3 years is more than enough time to be completely engrossed in the family.

1 hour ago, janea4old said:

true

Some of my closest friends I talk to every day I’ve only known for the last 3 years.

Good character revelation, even though I kinda think it was something of a rewrite. If so, that's OK. Because soaps used to do this quite a bit in the past with pretty good results. Now, will they allow this plot to flow decently, maintaining audience interest, or will they suddenly put it on the shelf and return to it in February of 2026? 

Writers:
Sara A. Bibel
Lynn Martin

Director:
Phideaux Xavier

I like the Hayley twist. It makes her more interesting to me now. She was getting a bit whiney and obsessed with Dani for my taste. It also makes Randy more interesting now. Does Joey know just how much of a con artist Randy is? Is Randy even his real name or an alias for the newest con? 

I hope this "baby drama" with Naomi doesn't last too long. It's making me not like her. I can understand her worrying about the changes in her body, but c'mon, they can easily have a nanny to watch/help raise the kids. There is no reason that she (or Jacob) has to give up their careers. Couples do this all the time. She's not once mentioned she's hesitant because she doesn't want the child to be raised by staff...which would be more understandable. 

I'm liking Smitty/Martin back together. I hope it lasts. 

June vs Leslie could be fun. I have a feeling June wouldn't be above getting down and dirty with Leslie and I'm here for Leslie getting some of her own. 

 

date: Thursday, October 16, 2025 | Sara A. Bibel, Lynn Martin | Phideaux Xavier

• The con artist child bride is wasting no time allowing her wicked ways and sinister ideas to come to light.
• Jacob is trying a bit too hard to persuade Naomi to keep the baby.
• Thai food? Not my thing, but it does sound delicious, especially if it is spicy. Sometimes spice can be delicious if done right.
• Oh Lord. Dani and Pamela need to watch more horror films and their parodies... you do not let Dani go up first! Ha. And not the "You've been robbed" line from Chelsea.
• Naomi continues to say the same thing, and it falls on the deafest of ears. Jacob needs to accept what he did when he married Naomi, unless he never did accept it?
• The con artist child bride is slapping it on a bit too thick; she needs to lessen the 'sweetness' a bit.
• Oh Chelsea, sweetie, you will be okay without all of those fashion items. I promise you will. It is not the end of the world.
• Pamela, dahling, what is it you have on your mind regarding Andre? Oh modeling. I see it.
• The con artist child bride is not being subtle at all, and it is glaring at this point. Wrapping up the 'special' cupcake in its own wrapping. Sweetie, for a con, you suck at it.
• Why do I feel like the family curse is code for he was never told about the babies, or it was not someone June expected to raise children with?
• Oops... thank goodness Naomi spat the 'special' cupcake out; otherwise, the con artist child bride would be on the hook for two murders!
• Smart of Naomi to go to Ashley about this.
• Okay, so that re-proposal was romantic, especially with Tyrell!

Notes:

• There is no way they had Samantha playing with someone's leftover French fries and ketchup. Whew. It was a choice.
• I like the use of flashback inserts to tell stories without having to do it with "remember back when?" text. It is smart.
• I still love seeing June as a fixture at Orphey Gene's. Reminds me of wait staff I have known at restaurants that I always circle back to.

I kept saying that Naomi, her pregnancy,  and Hayley would all converge but I had no idea it would be this way.

 

Hayley's plan is about to wreck so much havoc 

49 minutes ago, Melroser said:

I hope this "baby drama" with Naomi doesn't last too long. It's making me not like her.

Yeah, these arguments she starts with Jacob are hard to take -- especially when the scene ends with them smiling and getting along and declaring their love.

Naomi, you want to be you? You want to be who you want to be? Then get a damn abortion already. We've already heard enough lectures from her about what's expected of a woman vs what's expected of a man.

Of course this is her decision. She talked to Jacob and knows his feelings, but this is still her choice. Even though an abortion makes perfect sense, I think she'll keep the baby, whether it's tied into Hayley and Bill or because that's what soaps do.

 

-- The discussion and explanations here about how long Hayley has known everyone make sense and are great -- and interesting. Love it all. Bottom line is that I don't really care if it all makes "perfect sense" because the storyline turn in Hayley has been SO GOOD.