2 minutes ago, Gatecrashers said:

BTG brought a lot of that back. Have you had a chance to watch it?

No, I have not really watched BTG except for the first episode.

By saying that it "brought a lot of that back," do you mean it offers over-the-hill camp like the 1980s+ soaps gave us, or the more naturalistic, down-to-earth style of daytime drama from earlier decades?

20 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

No, I have not really watched BTG except for the first episode.

By saying that it "brought a lot of that back," do you mean it offers over-the-hill camp like the 1980s+ soaps gave us, or the more naturalistic, down-to-earth style of daytime drama from earlier decades?

The latter, with well-drawn characters written in shades of gray. One villain is quite campy, but they have recently been balancing her with more of a back story to explain her motivations.

All the characters had layers.

Laura became a sensation on GH because she was essentially a good person who was deeply troubled. You would have Bobbie being outright vicious towards her, cynical with Luke, and scheming with Scotty. And yet, Bobbie was also a good person, a dedicated student nurse, and you grew to understand why she wanted the security Scotty represented in her mind.

If you only watched Kay and Jill in the later years of Y&R, you didn’t see that Katherine could be a nasty piece of work, was delusional about Philip, insecure about being older, and took it too far with Jill. And Jill did break Katherine’s confidence and trust with the affair and child. But Jill was also very young, and what Katherine did to her led to her becoming harder, more driven, and looking for stability in marriages and the lacking passion outside her marriages. 
 

Speaking of which, I think the 1980’s reinvigoration of the feud between Jill and Katherine was also a classic. I watched it as it was happening once we got to Nina becoming pregnant. The tragedy of losing Philip for all three of them allowed the story to have many layers, then the fallout of fighting with Nina over her baby and inherited fortune.  I have seen a lot of the earlier part though too- the cut up photograph, the Memorial Day episode, Kay becoming increasingly unhinged, and Jill scheming and vamping all over the Jabot offices. The court case over young Philip. It still had some grit to it, before the show became much slicker as they headed into the 90’s.

I know James Reilly is an acquired taste, and I don’t really enjoy his work past the first month or so Marlena was revealed as possessed. But I also think the last truly classic affair was Roman/Marlena/John. It made sense in the world of DAYS where we have two Romans. It also involved the slow descent of Sami from troubled to pretty much a villain by the end of his run. Her sexual assault, bulimia and body issues, attachment to the returned Roman, and knowing about Belle helped create the monster she becomes. Like any great story it also had a couple of amazing Turing points, like Sami kidnapping baby Belle and returning her at Christmas, and the reveal at the baptism. 

On 9/5/2025 at 2:08 PM, vetsoapfan said:

I naively took for granted that soaps could and would always be this good, because I had only witnessed them offering high quality since I first started tuning in. Little did I know how suddenly and how far they would later fall.

My sentiment, exactly.

Yes, I was saddened to see AW spinning out of control and down the drain after 1975. My anger was particularly pointed, because I knew it had been gratuitously decimated, and it didn't need to be.

Chris was raped in 1973 by George Curtis, who was played by Tony Geary. Peggy was the one raped by Ron Becker, on June 16, 1976. Upon finding her baby sister had also been assaulted, Chris had memory flashbacks of compulsively showering after her own assault, to wash the stain off. It was heartbreaking.

That was the first time I ever heard the word "bitch" uttered on a soap. As the scene faded to black, a split second before dissolving into the commercial, Leslie screamed, "BITCH!" at Lorie. I always wondered if placing the curse word at the last possible moment was a safeguard the show made in case they had to cut it out before broadcast.

I would love to see that scene surface. I bet Bill Bell did do that on purpose so he could get that past the censors. I also read about the infamous Jed Andrews (Tom Selleck) & Lorie Brooks (Jamie Lyn Bauer) 1974 shower sex scene. Supposedly it was very graphic with their blurred naked bodies grinding up against the glass shower door. Selleck and Bauer said they are always reminded of that by longtime fans. 

6 hours ago, Gatecrashers said:

The latter, with well-drawn characters written in shades of gray. One villain is quite campy, but they have recently been balancing her with more of a back story to explain her motivations.

I thought about giving BTG a try when  it was first announced, but I guess a combination of being really busy and having been burned out by decades of bitter disappointment in modern soap opera style, kept me from delving into the show.

I'm glad you are enjoying it, though. I really do want the soap format to survive and thrive, and hopefully make a strong comeback.

3 hours ago, titan1978 said:

All the characters had layers.

Laura became a sensation on GH because she was essentially a good person who was deeply troubled. You would have Bobbie being outright vicious towards her, cynical with Luke, and scheming with Scotty. And yet, Bobbie was also a good person, a dedicated student nurse, and you grew to understand why she wanted the security Scotty represented in her mind.

Laura was a pain in the butt when she was a teenager. She was arbitrary, touchy, headstrong and refused to deal with conflict like an adult, even though she demanded to be treated like one. That being said, the character was a very recognizable and realistic teenager like we have all encountered and known in our lives. Bobbie truly felt that she was better for Scotty than Laura was, and she wasn't totally wrong for believing this, considering how Laura ended up betraying her true-blue young husband and running off with a hoodlum rapist. The fact that characters were drawn in shades of gray, and made you root for them as well as want to smack some sense into them at other times, made the soaps much more compelling and believable.

3 hours ago, titan1978 said:

If you only watched Kay and Jill in the later years of Y&R, you didn’t see that Katherine could be a nasty piece of work, was delusional about Philip, insecure about being older, and took it too far with Jill. And Jill did break Katherine’s confidence and trust with the affair and child. But Jill was also very young, and what Katherine did to her led to her becoming harder, more driven, and looking for stability in marriages and the lacking passion outside her marriages. 

Neither woman was totally innocent/blameless in any of this, and we could understand the motivations driving them both, so our loyalties and opinions could shift from time to time, which kept us on our toes and the show engrossing. The fact that Jill and Katherine ended up hating AND loving each other lead to an endlessly fascinating roundelay of emotions for the audience to enjoy.

3 hours ago, titan1978 said:

Speaking of which, I think the 1980’s reinvigoration of the feud between Jill and Katherine was also a classic. I watched it as it was happening once we got to Nina becoming pregnant. The tragedy of losing Philip for all three of them allowed the story to have many layers, then the fallout of fighting with Nina over her baby and inherited fortune.  I have seen a lot of the earlier part though too- the cut up photograph, the Memorial Day episode, Kay becoming increasingly unhinged, and Jill scheming and vamping all over the Jabot offices. The court case over young Philip. It still had some grit to it, before the show became much slicker as they headed into the 90’s.

Having Phillip later turn up alive, and having hidden himself for years to cover his sexual orientation, was a cheap and tacky (i.e. ridiculous) choice, but it could never erase the years of fine drama that had preceded it.

3 hours ago, titan1978 said:

I know James Reilly is an acquired taste, and I don’t really enjoy his work past the first month or so Marlena was revealed as possessed. But I also think the last truly classic affair was Roman/Marlena/John. It made sense in the world of DAYS where we have two Romans. It also involved the slow descent of Sami from troubled to pretty much a villain by the end of his run. Her sexual assault, bulimia and body issues, attachment to the returned Roman, and knowing about Belle helped create the monster she becomes. Like any great story it also had a couple of amazing Turing points, like Sami kidnapping baby Belle and returning her at Christmas, and the reveal at the baptism. 

James Reilly just left a bitter taste in my mouth, and I loathed basically everything he did on the soaps, but I recognize he had his admirers. I've just never been able to tolerate unbelievable camp and fantasy on soaps, which destroy the "reality bubble."

1 hour ago, SoapDope78 said:

I would love to see that scene surface. I bet Bill Bell did do that on purpose so he could get that past the censors. I also read about the infamous Jed Andrews (Tom Selleck) & Lorie Brooks (Jamie Lyn Bauer) 1974 shower sex scene. Supposedly it was very graphic with their blurred naked bodies grinding up against the glass shower door. Selleck and Bauer said they are always reminded of that by longtime fans. 

The soaps in the 1970s were surprisingly frank in their depiction of mature, adult storylines and sexuality. It's so weird that they became much more conservative and restricted in later years.

On 9/5/2025 at 9:41 PM, P.J. said:

The world before spoilers and the internet was awesomer than we give it credit for. It's also great that now I can see stuff I didn't get to (like Rita in the Hall of Mirrors), but that shock and awe moment of getting surprised is gone.

^Agree 100%. The shock and awe moment before spoilers/internet was such a strong feeling that we can't ever get back (except maybe when you allow yourself a rewatch and haven't read anything about the soap/characters, which I'm considering later in life with maybe 90s Y&R or B&B since I really don't know much about them).

From my generation/era, I feel like these AMC storylines really were must-see, water cooler talks in the early/mid-90s (huge ratings):

-Natalie in the well; Janet impersonating her; Janet kidnapping Hayley; the start of Dimitri and Wildwind.

-Tad and Dixie's first coupling; Adam and Brooke's involvement; Tad "dying" while struggling with Billy Clyde Tuggle on the bridge all while Brooke was pregnant with Jamie; Tad's eventual return and having to convince Dixie it's really him.

-Noah/Julia's interracial coupling; her abortion after being raped by Louie.

10 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

^Agree 100%. The shock and awe moment before spoilers/internet was such a strong feeling that we can't ever get back (except maybe when you allow yourself a rewatch and haven't read anything about the soap/characters, which I'm considering later in life with maybe 90s Y&R or B&B since I really don't know much about them).

It's funny, you know I've been rewatching GL, and I've forgotten so much, it's not funny. It's like being spoiler free....but not quite. lol 

41 minutes ago, vetsoapfan said:

James Reilly just left a bitter taste in my mouth, and I loathed basically everything he did on the soaps, but I recognize he had his admirers. I've just never been able to tolerate unbelievable camp and fantasy on soaps, which destroy the "reality bubble."

And let me be clear, I mostly agree. I think he was an integral part of what was working on GL as part of that head writing team with Curlee as the leader. And I think he did great stuff on DAYS up to a point. I think the whole Curtis Reed story worked and really set up the Adair version of Kate, Billie and Austin. Focusing on Marlena was the right decision. I also thought Hope’s return was well told. Where he lost me, and I have said it around here before, was when Marlena’s possession kicked into gear, and was dragged out longer than it should have been. All of a sudden every character became incredibly stupid, and it just got campier and campier. My line in the sand is pretty much after Maison Blanche it started to go in a direction I wasn’t a fan of. I wasn’t one of the people that enjoyed Eileen Davidson playing multiple characters, no matter how good she was.

34 minutes ago, alwaysAMC said:

^Agree 100%. The shock and awe moment before spoilers/internet was such a strong feeling that we can't ever get back (except maybe when you allow yourself a rewatch and haven't read anything about the soap/characters, which I'm considering later in life with maybe 90s Y&R or B&B since I really don't know much about them).

The problem is now widespread. With spoilers so prevalent in the media, whatever you want to watch (soaps, primetime TV, movies) is bound to be spoiled anywhere/everywhere, often immediately upon its release and before many people even get a chance to see it. If you dare turn on the TV or radio, and if you dare surf the internet, you will be hit by spoilers even if you actively strive to avoid them. Many folks spread spoilers on purpose, for fun, which is so annoying.

30 minutes ago, P.J. said:

It's funny, you know I've been rewatching GL, and I've forgotten so much, it's not funny. It's like being spoiler free....but not quite. lol 

Unfortunately for me, I only forget all the painfully bad, unforgettable moments...which I would never want to watch again, anyway. Great material, worth rewatching, would hold no surprises for me.

28 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

And let me be clear, I mostly agree. I think he was an integral part of what was working on GL as part of that head writing team with Curlee as the leader. And I think he did great stuff on DAYS up to a point. I think the whole Curtis Reed story worked and really set up the Adair version of Kate, Billie and Austin. Focusing on Marlena was the right decision. I also thought Hope’s return was well told. Where he lost me, and I have said it around here before, was when Marlena’s possession kicked into gear, and was dragged out longer than it should have been. All of a sudden every character became incredibly stupid, and it just got campier and campier. My line in the sand is pretty much after Maison Blanche it started to go in a direction I wasn’t a fan of. I wasn’t one of the people that enjoyed Eileen Davidson playing multiple characters, no matter how good she was.

I turned away from DAYS the moment I saw Marlena levitating above her bed. I just couldn't stand it. The DAYS I loved had been adult, subtle, layered and grounded in reality. The show I knew and the character of Marlena, were destroyed for me that day. And I must say, watching Marlena "murder" beloved characters (especially Alice Horton) was so morally repulsive, it made me sick.

I have no problem with shows telling campy, absurd, supernatural based stories if they were conceived and introduced to do so. But, IMHO, inflicting this onto once-erudite and serious soaps destroys their DNA in a way from which they never recover. I do not want to see the Great Gazoo floating around Maggie Smith's head on Downton Abbey and taking her on trips to visit Dr. Who, LOL.

Edited September 8Sep 8 by vetsoapfan

James Reilly's version of Days may have gotten some short-term big ratings, but IMO, it turned that soap's image into a never-ending joke, which took FOREVER to shed.

(I say this because I think this year is the first in ages that I can recall Days getting multiple Emmy nominations. Yes, there are only three other soaps to compete with this year [as BTG is new and was not eligible!], but let's be real, the show has largely been shut out over the years, and I think the campy mess was a huge factor as to why.)

The big ratings were more of a "car crash" mentality: People tuning in to see how ridiculous things could get, but then they got tired and moved on, and Days was left with the stigma of being a ridiculous clown show.

It makes me almost grateful that NBC let Reilly create Passions, so that he eventually could not totally kill Days, keeping his focus elsewhere with his own show.

Edited September 8Sep 8 by Wendy

12 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

However, the episode where Laura Palmer's killer was revealed wasn't a surprise since my mom since episode 1 had guessed the killer correctly.  

So did mine, in the first season. I was about 9 or 10 and when I asked her why she thought that she said 'his reaction was too much' and didn't elaborate. Later it became pretty clear.

I hid under the dining room table for a good portion of the ending of the big reveal episode, and was too scared to watch much of the show live for the rest of the year after that ("BOB" terrified me, and they showed him in the mirror in a promo during China Beach a week later when I tried to come back lol) though I did catch the finale. But I remained utterly fascinated by the show, and came back to it on Bravo reruns in high school. It's still very close to my heart.

Edited September 8Sep 8 by Vee

1 hour ago, Vee said:

So did mine, in the first season. I was about 9 or 10 and when I asked her why she thought that she said 'his reaction was too much' and didn't elaborate. Later it became pretty clear.

When you look at the overall vibe of the show - that it's 50s wholesome Americana with a dark undercurrent in combination with how nothing is as it seems with the "perfect" Palmer family, it's obvious from that point alone. And who is the most likely perpetrator in such a situation? I suspect it's logical deduction, even if your mom might've done it subconsciously. 

20 minutes ago, te. said:

I suspect it's logical deduction, even if your mom might've done it subconsciously. 

Oh, I think she knew. I think she just didn't want to spell it out for me because I was so young. But she let me watch that and a lot of other gritty stuff with her (China Beach, Prime Suspect) and it was not a secret what happened when the truth came out.

2 hours ago, Wendy said:

James Reilly's version of Days may have gotten some short-term big ratings, but IMO, it turned that soap's image into a never-ending joke, which took FOREVER to shed.

(I say this because I think this year is the first in ages that I can recall Days getting multiple Emmy nominations. Yes, there are only three other soaps to compete with this year [as BTG is new and was not eligible!], but let's be real, the show has largely been shut out over the years, and I think the campy mess was a huge factor as to why.)

The big ratings were more of a "car crash" mentality: People tuning in to see how ridiculous things could get, but then they got tired and moved on, and Days was left with the stigma of being a ridiculous clown show.

It makes me almost grateful that NBC let Reilly create Passions, so that he eventually could not totally kill Days, keeping his focus elsewhere with his own show.

YES!!! 👏👍👏👍👏

Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes!

I have staunchly made these exact same points for over 40 years, ever since the idiotic Ice Princess/The Cassadines Freeze the World crap on GH opened the floodgates to the low-brow, cartoonish camp stories which ended up permeating daytime TV. 

I knew that insane clown plots would garner temporary interest from outsiders, the media and kids, but not the dedicated, already-loyal and emotionally-invested viewers who had loved and stuck with soaps throughout their lives. They watched for vastly different reasons; not to laugh at the latest, outrageous stunts.

It took a while (TPTB are nothing if not dogged in their determination to beat dead horses into the ground), but the cringeworthy camp phase did end up making a huge swath of the audience drift away from soaps, and the ratings plummeted.

The damage is still being felt to this day, but at least sci-fi/supernatural plots are not at the forefront of the shows anymore. With Ron Carlivati gone, hopefully even DAYS won't be resorting to another devil possession.