17 minutes ago, Broderick said:

About Luke & Laura -- as a kid in 1979, I never understood why there was a rape in the first place.  

If you'd given me a typewriter, a blank sheet of paper, Genie Francis, Tony Geary, Kin Shriner, a disco, and Herb Alpert's "Rise", I wouldn't have crafted a "rape".  

I would've written a seduction -- a little misunderstanding or miscommunication between Laura & Scotty, a kind-hearted and unexpected gesture from Luke (a knick-knack or a flower), and a gloomy event on the horizon (the death of Mitch Williams).  Put Luke and Laura in the disco, turn on the music, let them dance, let him seduce her, let her respond, let them have sex.  

And the subsequent storyline would've been the two of them "re-framing" what happened.  She could convince herself he'd raped her, and then remind herself he hadn't.  He could remind himself she'd willingly responded, and then convince himself she hadn't.  

To me, that would've been far more interesting and opened far more complex emotions than what Monty and Company actually wrote.  And it would've gotten the two characters to the same destination without the absurd "I'm in love with my rapist" aspect of it.  

I agree. Or they have avoided the whole scenario to begin with. 

Again Luke and Laura should have happened, the rape should NOT have. 

Were they thinking because L&L had feelings for each other the audience would have accepted this more than a woman falling in love with a random rapist off the street??? IDK.

6 hours ago, Vee said:

All I'll say re: the Y&R thing is it took real chutzpah to name a Black character "Mamie" even in the '80s. I did a double take when I first learned the Abbott maid was called that and I've never recovered.

Between "Mamie" and "Jazz" and "Kong" - not to mention the whole "he's passing himself off as a WHAT??" storyline with Tyrone - let's just say '80's Y&R could be rough going at times for its' more progressively minded viewers, lol.

Re: Agnes Nixon and OLTL - I've always been fascinated as to why she didn't remain as involved with the show as she had with AMC and LOVING, even though she also sold AMC to the network.  I'm sure she was kept abreast of everything happening on OLTL, but it seems like once she turned all her attentions to AMC, she remained hands-off with her first show.

47 minutes ago, Broderick said:

About Luke & Laura -- as a kid in 1979, I never understood why there was a rape in the first place.  

If you'd given me a typewriter, a blank sheet of paper, Genie Francis, Tony Geary, Kin Shriner, a disco, and Herb Alpert's "Rise", I wouldn't have crafted a "rape". 

As soon as Gloria Monty knew that Tony Geary was staying and that he and Genie Francis had chemistry, she (and Pat Falken Smith) should have rewritten the rape as a mutual, if ill-advised, one night stand IMMEDIATELY.

Edited November 19, 20241 yr by Khan

8 minutes ago, Khan said:

As soon as Gloria Monty knew that Tony Geary was staying and that he and Genie Francis had chemistry, she (and Pat Falken Smith) should have rewritten the rape as a mutual, if ill-advised, one night stand IMMEDIATELY.

I don’t think they could pull that off. Laura’s dress was torn, and she was near catatonic. I recently saw the scenes where Jessie talks to her when she arrives at the hospital, and the scenes when Luke brings her flowers in her hospital room (like the next day!) and basically lets him know she isn’t going to admit it was him.

They will never be able to escape the fact that they told the story the way they did. Equally crazy is the audience at the time largely wanted them together after the rape, would yell rape me to Tony Geary at public events, and gave the show its largest audience following their story to the wedding. All of our modern commentary completely glosses over the majority of the audience supported this from 1979-1981 and beyond.

At least we saw both of them tortured by what happened. I watched DAYS during the supercouple era and what they did with Jack was just as horrendous, as well as turning Lawrence into a romantic character with Carly, amongst other stories. EJ/Sami wasn’t even that long ago all things considered! 

20 minutes ago, Khan said:

As soon as Gloria Monty knew that Tony Geary was staying and that he and Genie Francis had chemistry, she (and Pat Falken Smith) should have rewritten the rape as a mutual, if ill-advised, one night stand IMMEDIATELY.

Totally agree with this but there's one slight problem. Douglas Marland ONLY left because someone decided to call the rape a "seduction" so if they had not done that & fixed it some other way, he would still be there with PFS second chair. 

Just imagine how great that would have been!

8 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

I watched DAYS during the supercouple era and what they did with Jack was just as horrendous, as well as turning Lawrence into a romantic character with Carly, amongst other stories. EJ/Sami wasn’t even that long ago all things considered! 

Bill Bell wrote Bill/Laura rape storyline that resulted in Mike but did Bill Bell write Bill/Laura marriage?

Edited November 19, 20241 yr by kalbir

NOPE. Luke raped Laura. Period. End of story. They messed up when they tried to romanticize it. 

4 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Bill Bell wrote Bill/Laura rape storyline that resulted in Mike but did Bill Bell write Bill/Laura marriage?

I believe this is gonna come right down to the wire because they got married in 1975 & that was Bill Bell's last year as HW. So, I'm sorry I don't know conclusively without month & day. Off to look it up. 

4 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Bill Bell wrote Bill/Laura rape storyline that resulted in Mike but did Bill Bell write Bill/Laura marriage?

I am not exact on the timeline, but if he didn’t write the marriage himself it was during the time they were working from his outlines while he was prepping Y&R. So it was by his design.

This is one soap trope I hope stays in the past.

12 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

otally agree with this but there's one slight problem. Douglas Marland ONLY left because someone decided to call the rape a "seduction" so if they had not done that & fixed it some other way, he would still be there with PFS second chair.

Pat Falken Smith wrote the rape. One of the reasons Marland left the show was interference in what he wanted to do with Scotty and Laura. Every account I have seen places the blame squarely on PFS and Monty for both the rape and the later seduction angle. He was long gone when the seduction angle came about, which was months later. Lots of story plays out between the sexual assault and them going on the run. I just watched most of it for the first time. There are several shows where Bobbie knows Luke raped her and brings it up quite a bit, sometimes in sympathy for Laura and sometimes not.

7 minutes ago, Contessa Donatella said:

I believe this is gonna come right down to the wire because they got married in 1975 & that was Bill Bell's last year as HW. So, I'm sorry I don't know conclusively without month & day. Off to look it up. 

Not as bad as I thought. Bill & Laura wed 10-22-74, so the fall before I was thinking & within the timeframe for Bill Bell to have written it, although I'm not sure if that was when he wrote the long story, the thrust & made all the big decisions while PFS batted relief. Still it would have been his decision. 

Was Flannery still in the role because didn’t she leave that year? I know her replacement wasn’t very popular and Laura never again had the same status she had when Flannery was in the role. 

15 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Was Flannery still in the role because didn’t she leave that year? I know her replacement wasn’t very popular and Laura never again had the same status she had when Flannery was in the role. 

Susan Flannery left in 1975; Susan Oliver (1975–1976) & Rosemary Forsyth (1976–1980) followed her portrayal.

15 minutes ago, Liberty City said:

Susan Flannery left in 1975; Susan Oliver (1975–1976) & Rosemary Forsyth (1976–1980) followed her portrayal.

Is there any footage of Flannery as Laura? All I know of her is the tough as nails Stephanie who became progressively more butch:

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Between "Mamie" and "Jazz" and "Kong" - not to mention the whole "he's passing himself off as a WHAT??" storyline with Tyrone - let's just say '80's Y&R could be rough going at times for its' more progressively minded viewers, lol.

There has always been a long shadow cast over Y&R’s racial history. Whether it was Mamie or Tyrone with whiteface in the 80’s, to the situation regarding the two actresses cast as Keisha in the 90’s, to the dismissals of Rowell and Sherwood in the ‘00’s, to the disgusting “get this black story up and pumping” ’under MAB with her Winters Wednesdays, to Mal Young wanting to replace all the Winters with the Rosales, and more recently Josh Griffith creating and then fumbling most idiotically a new black family he created that had Major potential. While I celebrate Y&R successes with diversity, It definitely hasn’t been always been pretty to watch over the last 40 years with lots of cringe, eye roll moments, and a few cuss words thrown towards TPTB. 

Why did they have Luke rape Laura? Was it just a genre convention; that's how strong men dealt with strong women in these stories? On The Doctors, Steve raped Karen in 1968. On Days of our Lives, Bill raped Laura. Does it go back to Gone with the Wind, with strong Rhett Butler "taking" headstrong Scarlett O'Hara against her will?

9 minutes ago, Antoyne said:

Is there any footage of Flannery as Laura? All I know of her is the tough as nails Stephanie who became progressively more butch: