NBC Daytime

[Soaplovers]

I wish youtube had the promo that aired days before Generations premiered.. because the promo had fast paced music, snippets of the cast arguing, acting mysterious and seductive.  It made the show look enticing, but when it premiered.. I remember my 19 year old aunt watching it when I was very little and she said it was too boring.  A half hour soap should not be boring.

I actually think Ryan's Hope had great openings since it was about the Ryan family living in NYC.  You saw scenes of the Ryan's and friends in various sites throughout NYC with a catchy theme song.   

[Paul Raven]

Respectfully disagree here, we are talking about coming out of the Reagan era of excess so a scaling back on the mega wealthy business people might have been more appropriate.

And a half hour soap neither had the budget or scope to realistically depict that kind of enterprise. So I would have focused on something more relatable-a business that could be used as a backdrop when necessary whose ins and outs we could understand.

So yes to the cosmetics idea if it were depicted as a boutique operation.

Or maybe a real estate/property business?

[TEdgeofNight]

There was only one thing wrong with Generations: Sally Sussman!!!! That woman could never write a soap. She failed every single time as a headwriter. She is/was a disaster!! Keep her away from soaps please. 

[Khan]

Anything has to be better than an ice cream company.  Anything.

[Soaplovers]

A local coffee shop trying to resist being taken over by a larger coffee chain (i.e. Starbucks, Peets, etx).

It would be a natural gathering place for the youth and older characters 

[j swift]

Overall, it is remarkable that Generations is remembered as a soap that was more diverse and inclusive in order to attract a Black audience.  Yet, while it was re-run on BET, there were no Black creative staff people hired in the production or development.  In fact, when ratings were lagging, the network attempted to solve the issue by increasing the number of white characters. No new Black characters were introduced in the final six months, whereas the white family got at least two new family members.  And rather than hiring a Black producer or head writer, they went with Jorn Winther.

While we shouldn't judge it based on the ideals of today, one assumes that a network marketing a show toward a Black audience without hiring any Black creative in positions of power would be frowned upon in 2023

Edited December 1, 2023 by j swift

[danfling]

The show and network were trying to "attract a Black audience" or a general audience with all races of viewers?

[j swift]

In response to @danfling 's question

https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-1990-03-26-ca-235-story.html

NBC’s motives in creating “Generations” were not entirely altruistic, however.

Statistics compiled by Nielsen Media Research show that blacks watch an average of 55% more daytime television than other groups. And, before “Generations,” NBC’s daytime programming garnered fewer black viewers than the other networks’.

“Generations” ranks about equal with the other networks’ major soaps in terms of audience composition, with 21% of its audience black. It leads NBC’s other soaps: Just 11% of “Days of Our Lives” viewers are black, 12% of “Another World” viewers and 16% of “Santa Barbara” viewers.

“One of the reasons the networks have been running more black shows and more black characters is (that) blacks disproportionately don’t have access to VCRs and cable television and satellites,” said Horne, the UCSB professor.

That means they are more likely than whites to watch network advertising and buy the products offered for sale, Horne said.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by j swift

[Contessa Donatella]

My notes on Sally Sussman as guest on THE CHAT podcast, week of 1-20-23.

She was a fan first & she turned her hobby into a career. The first soap she watched was EON. Then The Secret Storm. Next, AMC, where she began with the first day. She also began watching Y&R on its first day. Bill Bell was always her hero. When she was 26 she was in a CBS Writer's Development thing & they were assigned to write a bible for one of the shows on the air. She wrote 4 stories for Y&R. Bill Bell loved them & loved her & 2 of those stories made it on the air. Right off he asked her what she liked about the show & also what she did not like. She told him. He agreed with what irked her. Good writers do not mind criticism because it's not personal. Too many today take it personally. Make the audience want more. Make them want to tune in tomorrow. It is about the journey not the pay-off. Bill Bell learned that from Ted Corday & Irna Phillips & she learned it from Bell. This was in 1982 & she got along fabulously with Kay, Jack, Elizabeth Harrower, etc. But, it happened to be a bad time for the show. The show had gone from a half hour to an hour.

At some point CBS decided they were the creative arm, which they were not, and Sony just went along with whatever. That Writing Team, headed by Kay Alden who was Bill's pick to write the show after him, all were fired & the show was handed over to Lynn Marie Latham. When she's been back, which was two times, she's been micromanaged down to the second.

Things she did: Devon & Hillary; Devon getting stopped by a cop, etc.; "Teriah" initial attraction & first kiss. CBS reaction apoplexy!! Y&R has an older skewing audience & CBS PTB worry about doing anything controversial.

Now: They have no money. There is no money for sets. They will not move sets, change sets. Extremely difficult for Writers to juggle storylines with the sets being the way they are.

What were her favorite characters that she created? Lauren. The entire cast of Generations. At DAYS Mike & Carrie as a couple.

What stories were hers? Deena home to the Abbotts, Buried Alive, Stalker, 1984 when Eve poisoned …, Jill's heart attack although she didn't get to do it as she'd have liked because Jess doesn't want to come in much. At DAYS Sami's execution. She said she saw a little moment between Christie & Roark that gave her the idea of putting them together. She said it is imperative that writers watch the show as that is the only way you will see things like that. She respects Reilly but personally doesn't like the scifi stuff in soaps. She also said she did an early sexual harassment story. Spyder Games had a fixed ending set from the get-go & that was a challenge to be writing with that in place. At GH Michele Val Jean & Elizabeth Korte had been named co-HWs & Wendy Riche asked her to consult. She did for 13 weeks only because Jill wanted to provide the writers with outlines that they would write to. Never heard of that much less did it. Outta there as soon as that 13 week cycle was up.

About Emmy reels. When you do 250 shows per year not every show is going to be a winner. But, you hope 100 are. And, you definitely should be able to find 2 for an Emmy reel.

About DAYS streaming on Peacock. Bravo to them. This may be a blessing in disguise. Be interesting to see if the rest go that way. GH will have an easier time of it than Y&R. Migrating to streaming from the network broadcast way. Y&R might have challenges going to Paramount Plus. Also older audience might react with fear that they'd have to go out & buy an Apple TV. Probably NBC to NBC UNIversal to Peacock was easier.

She doesn't watch the show. She does read fan boards. They are a barometer. Watching & loving it - great. Watching & hating it - still great. Not watching - not great. Ffing Ffing Ffing - not great. The show "meh'' - not great.

Advice to current & aspiring writers: Really be inside your characters & be true to them. Be daring & bold. Think big picture, whole cast, balance storyline & couples & suspense versus romance. KNOW your ending. Know who the killer is. DO NOT WING IT.

Problems shows have simply because they've been on the air so long: Everyone's related. All inner-connected. Complacency. Scifi stuff. Boring doppelgangers. Pandering to an audience is terrible. Dumbing down is terrible.

Oh, I forgot two important things: Soap people are the hardest working & the best people of all people! And, the job of Headwriter is harder than any other job anywhere, anytime!

One more thing that I forgot when JFP was hired as EP she wanted to bring on Megan McTavish! One #SoapKiller wanting to hire another.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Donna L. Bridges
typo

[j swift]

I know she is a controversial figure in this discussion, but it would be interesting to know if Sally Sussman's initial pitch for Generations focused on diversity. Or if that was what part of the NBC's notes on the pitch, and she adjusted her vision in order to get the show developed?  I assume we'll never find out the truth because as the saying goes, 'success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan'.  And in TV, nobody wants to be an orphan.

Edited December 1, 2023 by j swift

[kalbir]

 

 

 

Controversial take here, but I think black viewers played a big part in NBC's primetime comeback during the second half of the 1980s and NBC was hoping for those viewers to carry over to their daytime line up.

[watson71]

Also, NBC and P&G tried to integrate Another World in the early 80s with black characters with no real jump in the ratings. You had Quinn, Thomasina, and Ed Harding. The Morgan family- Bob, Henrietta, RJ, and Mary Sue.  Also, Roy Bingham and Lily Mason along with other minor black characters on the show. In 1982-83, there were 9 black characters involved in storylines out of approximately 30 contract players.  If it didn’t work in 1982, I wonder how NBC thought it would work in 1989?

[Paul Raven]

With every thing that was going on with the show at the time, I don't think you could blame the Black characters for the lack of a ratings jump. Had some of those characters stayed around and viewers got more attached and interested then it might have followed through in the ratings. But only Quinn and Thomasina had any sort of staying power and they were eventually dropped.

[Khan]

I agree.  It's one thing to cast more diverse actors; it's another to write well for them.  And I don't think AW was writing well for anyone, black OR white, during that period.

Same goes for GENERATIONS.  You can't just expect African-American viewers to watch a show and keep it on the air because we "see ourselves" on the screen.  The writing has to be there, too, or else we're not gonna bother.  

Edited December 3, 2023 by Khan

[Contessa Donatella]

Well, I disagree. I believe in general that if soap fans are into the characters, they will tolerate a good deal of bad writing. I think that the combination of the actor they like with the characterization that they are fond of that that is the glue that will cause fans to stick it out through some pretty rough periods.

Whereas good writing that is missing that actor/character combo will not keep people watching.