Similarly, Katherine never worked when MAB and team tried to make her everyone’s grandmother and friend. At her core Katherine was often a deeply insecure and miserable woman, to try to settle her in that type of a role felt like a betrayal, regardless of how old she was.

With a little better writing, Maggie on Days could fill that role.  Maybe Jennifer if the shows still on in ten years.

3 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Similarly, Katherine never worked when MAB and team tried to make her everyone’s grandmother and friend. At her core Katherine was often a deeply insecure and miserable woman, to try to settle her in that type of a role felt like a betrayal, regardless of how old she was.

A lot of Katherine bashing of late.  First as her portrayal as a business power player then as a matriarch.  Guess some people hated to see her evolve at all from.  Just an observation, I don't have "a horse in the race."

12 hours ago, Joseph said:

Loving has a rare nice Rich Matriarch who i assume was also a loving Mother, Isabelle Alden, Originally played by Meg Mundy who had played the Matriarch from Hell Mona Aldrich on The Doctors, Then Lovingly by Augusta Dabney, Then Bitchly by Celeste Holm who seemed to be channeling Anna Rossini from Falcon Crest, Then By Patricia Barry whose portrayal i wasn't lucky to find and then again and lastly by Augusta Dabney

I remember reading and agreeing recently that the Main Reason GL was cancelled was because after Bert's Death there was never a true Mother Figure/Matriarch, The closest ever was Maureen and they killed her! I think that messy as she was Lillian might've worked but a true possibility of that was killed together with poor Maureen on that Stupid storyline (i always thought they should've let Lillian Battle Cancer instead), ANd they made an effort with both Vanessa and Nola in the 1990's but later gave up

Another reason we need Dru Back!

I still say Abuella Santos could've been positioned as Bert 2.0

19 minutes ago, BetterForgotten said:

Similarly, Katherine never worked when MAB and team tried to make her everyone’s grandmother and friend. At her core Katherine was often a deeply insecure and miserable woman, to try to settle her in that type of a role felt like a betrayal, regardless of how old she was.

It would have been like AMC making Phoebe Wallingford the matriarch of Pine Valley.

14 minutes ago, Spoon said:

With a little better writing, Maggie on Days could fill that role.  Maybe Jennifer if the shows still on in ten years.

I think the problem with Maggie (outside writing-which agreed) is that she doesn't have strong enough ties to the canvas to be the matriarch.  She has mostly left the Horton side behind to marry Victor and when she doles out advice to people like Brady, Will, Sonny, etc you left thinking why they aren't just talking to their parents or grandparents about it.  She lives in a Kiriakis bubble and even if the writing changed or shifted she has spent years like that so any bonds she created would seem random at this point.

In theory, Jennifer would be more likely because she has stronger ties with more of the cast.

1 hour ago, Spoon said:

 

A lot of Katherine bashing of late.  First as her portrayal as a business power player then as a matriarch.  Guess some people hated to see her evolve at all from.  Just an observation, I don't have "a horse in the race."

I guess I don’t see comments like that as bashing.  It was well established and in her nature to let her insecurities get the best of her, which often lead to drinking again.  Back when I was more attached to the show, she clearly had a mentor relationship with Nikki, but I never saw her as a matriarch.  They don’t have to be sweet either- Stephanie on B&B is the antithesis of someone like Alice on DAYS, but I would still codify them both as matriarchs.

With conscientious and considerate writing Katherine could have evolved into a sort of matriarchal figure but the writing was just never there to make that happen. For one, Brock only made sporadic appearances and many viewers like myself don’t remember seeing Brock as a regular character onscreen and by then, memories of Katherine “Mothering” Brock were long gone. The memories that are ingrained via flashbacks are Katherine, drunk and bitter and out of control. It’s not hating on the character, it’s recognizing what the writing for that character lacked in order to make most of us see Katherine as a genuine matriarchal figure in the style that soaps are usually known for. 
 

Nikki was always much too insecure and self-absorbed to fill out that show’s matriarchal figure. I do think Y&R has an ageist issue in their lack of vision when it comes to writing characters of “a certain age” as both matriarchal and vital at the same time. One of the reasons why I referenced Kim Hughes on ATWT is because for a number of years the writing seemed to be able to strike that balance. 

32 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

One of the reasons why I referenced Kim Hughes on ATWT is because for a number of years the writing seemed to be able to strike that balance. 

I agree that Doug Marland played Bob and Kim Hughes as the new more modern version of Chris and Nancy (patriarch and matriarch of the entire show).  Even going so far as to host the annual Hughes 4th of July picnic, and raising the flag during Bob's (formerly Grandpa Hughes's and Chris's) speech.   Bob and Kim slowly diminished as patriarch and matriarch of ATWT with later head writers, and especially after Bob and Kim's home completely stopped being used around 2000-01.  You can't have a real patriarch/matriarch if they never have scenes in their home.  

Edited June 6, 20223 yr by Neil Johnson

20 minutes ago, Neil Johnson said:

I agree that Doug Marland played Bob and Kim Hughes as the new more modern version of Chris and Nancy (patriarch and matriarch of the entire show).  Even going so far as to host the annual Hughes 4th of July picnic, and raising the flag during Bob's (formerly Grandpa Hughes's and Chris's) speech.   Bob and Kim slowly diminished as patriarch and matriarch of ATWT with later head writers, and especially after Bob and Kim's home completely stopped being used around 2000-01.  You can't have a real patriarch/matriarch if they never have scenes in their

You bring up an important point. The budget cuts that lead to a diminished idea of home and hearth, such a big part of seeing characters function as family. Having meals in the dining room, coffee and dessert in the living room, barbecues on the patio in the backyard. Without those things, you lose opportunities to seamlessly present that familial side of these characters as well as their place within the family. I always enjoyed those freewheeling gatherings when family and friends would gather, sometimes spontaneously. You get to see a character like Tom Hughes as a husband, a son and brother, Margo as a wife and sister, Kim as a wife, mother and stepmother and Bob as a dad, husband and stepdad.  Put Lisa into the mix for good measure and it really gets interesting, all in one setting.

If Dina Abbott had been returned as the vital businesswoman and force of nature she always was (and the actress is) maybe (again with good writing) Dina could have filled a matriarchal role, mentoring and advising the Abbotts and others she came into contact with through business and family ties.

Traci kind of functions in that role...

8 hours ago, BetterForgotten said:

Similarly, Katherine never worked when MAB and team tried to make her everyone’s grandmother and friend. At her core Katherine was often a deeply insecure and miserable woman, to try to settle her in that type of a role felt like a betrayal, regardless of how old she was.

Yes! I don't mind Kay as business player if it gives her story outside of obsessing over Jill and Phillip. But bitter 70s-90s Kay made for great television and would have been more entertaining than the sweet old lady role that older actresses often become relegated to.

Bert Bauer started out being impossible and unlikable.. gradually softening to become a beloved grandmotherly type.  There was one scene where Bert was visiting Phillip in the hospital and after he told her what he did to upset Beth, she basically called him a jerk LOL

Maureen was a worthy replacement for Bert, but after she was killed off, there wasn't anyone to take over for Maureen.

34 minutes ago, Soaplovers said:

Bert Bauer started out being impossible and unlikable.. gradually softening to become a beloved grandmotherly type.  There was one scene where Bert was visiting Phillip in the hospital and after he told her what he did to upset Beth, she basically called him a jerk LOL

Maureen was a worthy replacement for Bert, but after she was killed off, there wasn't anyone to take over for Maureen.

Maureen was a natural fit to take on that matriarchal role. GL lost far more than they ever gained by killing the character off. In a strange way, had she stayed on the canvas, over time I could have seen Bridget eventually filling out that role as well, but the series would have needed to last longer than it did. 

Capitol’s two leads were matriarchs. Best friends turned enemies, Myrna Graves Clegg and Clarissa Tyler McCandless. They had very different relationships with their children.

On Days the matter of the Missing Matriarch on Days could be simply fixed by Bringing a character of Mature age who has been off Canvas but is still alive, Like Marie Horton or Sandy Horton, it wouldn't hurt they're from the Show's Core Family