26 minutes ago, KLN said:

Exactly my point.

It's perception.

She WAS a straight villain. (After being a saint.) Still CAN be a straight villain. But they've reinvented her as someone capable of longer story and I prefer this to that. It's all in how you perceive her.

Like I said I'm not married to the nostalgia or needing things to be a certain way or 100% accurate or like it was in the past, I just appreciate an entertaining show. Stacy's Kristen gives more milk.

I know full well who Kristen is. Promise.

Both views can be valid.

Louder for the people in the back. 😄😄

Kristen is layered and complex if they let her be. Like any other character.

I think some people are stuck in old bias... nostalgia, whatever.

I have never considered Kristen to be a straight villian.  She was driven to do the things she did out of insecurity, fear, doubts, etc.  Let's be real.  Kristen was a fairly clever psycho, but she wasn't wrong about John.  He REPEATEDLY told her he loved her and only her.  He willingly made a baby with her and proposed to her.  All the time he was lying to her and Marlena.  John's kind of the villian lol.

To this day (outside of JER being JER) I don't understand why John and Marlena couldn't just be honest with one another.  Blah, blah, blah the pain of the affair, the baby, each other's happiness.  Stop being lame.  Them being together, IMO, would have legitimized their affair and stopped a lot of their problems.   For storyline purposes it was great, but it really made 0 sense.  Marlena telling John the truth about Kristen from the beginning of the pregnancy was arguably less stressful than Kristen keeping secrets the entire pregnancy, but whatever.  I digress... Plus the woman had to live as a sex slave on an island for years.  

On 1/1/2022 at 2:05 PM, carolineg said:

I have never considered Kristen to be a straight villian.  She was driven to do the things she did out of insecurity, fear, doubts, etc.  Let's be real.  Kristen was a fairly clever psycho, but she wasn't wrong about John.  He REPEATEDLY told her he loved her and only her.  He willingly made a baby with her and proposed to her.  All the time he was lying to her and Marlena.  John's kind of the villian lol.

To this day (outside of JER being JER) I don't understand why John and Marlena couldn't just be honest with one another.  Blah, blah, blah the pain of the affair, the baby, each other's happiness.  Stop being lame.  Them being together, IMO, would have legitimized their affair and stopped a lot of their problems.   For storyline purposes it was great, but it really made 0 sense.  Marlena telling John the truth about Kristen from the beginning of the pregnancy was arguably less stressful than Kristen keeping secrets the entire pregnancy, but whatever.  I digress... Plus the woman had to live as a sex slave on an island for years.  

You said it all.

JER's take on religion and morality was distorted as hell. At the time in a more black and white world, at age 13, sure... I bought what it. Now? I appreciate his craftsmanship but the dude was tortured.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

Ironically, the only place I think Stacy is actually that popular is a subset of Twitter. 

Again, talented actress, and I do think Kristen has always had layers. Just not the kind of layers to justify what the show has attempted to do with Kristen via poor writing, which is defang her and then reverse themselves with a 180, repeatedly. The show isn't capable of reinventing the wheel with Kristen. If they were I'd have been open to it, as I was with her when they originally did the time jump. But they couldn't pull it off and they haven't done it. Eileen can play layers too, the current show just isn't interested. They thought they could make a 'new' Kristen with a new actress, and instead failed to write it. Now IMO people are conflating their admiration for the actress trying to elevate the material with a legitimately good attempt at remaking the character. But DAYS hasn't delivered it.

This is something Ron has done with many villains at other shows, BTW; he falls in love with a character or actor and tries to slowly make them more palatable and rootable, usually by slanting or skewing the writing and cutting corners. In doing so he often turns initial audience favorites into overpropped messes. It happened at GH with Obrecht (among others, and some characters at OLTL as well), it happened with Gwen at DAYS and in a different way it's happened with Kristen who was an actual established character prior to him, which was a bridge too far for his usual schtick. And whenever it flops he goes back to the factory settings. Kristen is no different.

Edited January 1, 20223 yr by Vee

On 1/1/2022 at 2:26 PM, Vee said:

Ironically, the only place I think Stacy is actually that popular is a subset of Twitter. 

Again, talented actress, and I do think Kristen has always had layers. Just not the kind of layers to justify what the show has attempted to do with Kristen via poor writing, which is defang her and then reverse themselves with a 180, repeatedly. The show isn't capable of reinventing the wheel with Kristen. If they were I'd have been open to it, as I was with her when they originally did the time jump. But they couldn't pull it off and they haven't done it. Eileen can play layers too, the current show just isn't interested. They thought they could make a 'new' Kristen with a new actress, and instead failed to write it. Now IMO people are conflating their admiration for the actress trying to elevate the material with a legitimately good attempt at remaking the character. But DAYS hasn't delivered it.

This is something Ron has done with many villains at other shows, BTW; he falls in love with a character or actor and tries to slowly make them more palatable and rootable, usually by slanting or skewing the writing and cutting corners. In doing so he often turns initial audience favorites into overpropped messes. It happened at GH with Obrecht (among others, and some characters at OLTL as well), it happened with Gwen at DAYS and in a different way it's happened with Kristen who was an actual established character prior to him, which was a bridge too far for his usual schtick. And whenever it flops he goes back to the factory settings. Kristen is no different.

Those are valid points.

I like Stacy's Kristen but I respect anyone who feels differently.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

8 minutes ago, KLN said:

You said it all.

The bitch is nuts but she GIVES.

Agreed on J&M. JER's take on religion and morality was distorted as hell. At the time in a more black and white world, at age 13, sure... I bought what he was selling. Now? I appreciate his tonality and craftsmanship but the dude was tortured.

Back to Kristen, 100% agree. She's a supremely f-ed up fiery mess of a character but the way she's written today appeals to my tastes as an adult.

I'd enjoy her as a straight villain too, I just think she has more legs the way she's currently conceived and I love Stacy. She's killed it for me.

Not to go off on a tangent, but John/Marlena were probably the worst of all offenders in JER's cycle of love triangles.  Most everyone else knew where they stood so to speak (Sami, Vivian, Tony/Andre, Peter, Billie, etc).  John/Marlena (mostly John) repeatedly lied to one another and most everyone else especially Kristen.  I am not even a Kristen defender, but that would make anyone a little crazy.  

Kristen's batsh*t actions might be the most understandable.  Eileen will always be my Kristen and the best Kristen, but Stacy is talented.

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

Ironically, the only place I think Stacy is actually that popular is a subset of Twitter. 

Again, talented actress, and I do think Kristen has always had layers. Just not the kind of layers to justify what the show has attempted to do with Kristen via poor writing, which is defang her and then reverse themselves with a 180, repeatedly. The show isn't capable of reinventing the wheel with Kristen. If they were I'd have been open to it, as I was with her when they originally did the time jump. But they couldn't pull it off and they haven't done it. Eileen can play layers too, the current show just isn't interested. They thought they could make a 'new' Kristen with a new actress, and instead failed to write it. Now IMO people are conflating their admiration for the actress trying to elevate the material with a legitimately good attempt at remaking the character. But DAYS hasn't delivered it.

This is something Ron has done with many villains at other shows, BTW; he falls in love with a character or actor and tries to slowly make them more palatable and rootable, usually by slanting or skewing the writing and cutting corners. In doing so he often turns initial audience favorites into overpropped messes. It happened at GH with Obrecht (among others, and some characters at OLTL as well), it happened with Gwen at DAYS and in a different way it's happened with Kristen who was an actual established character prior to him, which was a bridge too far for his usual schtick. And whenever it flops he goes back to the factory settings. Kristen is no different.

The oddness of John/Marlena accepting a nicer, gentler Kristen was freaking bizarre.  Leave them out of it or play up the endless rivalry.  I agree you either make Kristen reformed and have SH play it or don't.  Going back and forth with different actresses, different motivations, different screen partners, etc is a disservice to both actresses.

Again, Kristen is a smart character, regardless of her flaws, but Ron makes her epically dumb.  Her plans consist of face masks and ridiculously bad choices.  Kristen in the 90's was nothing if not one step ahead and this Kristen is just not that bright.

On 1/1/2022 at 2:40 PM, carolineg said:

The oddness of John/Marlena accepting a nicer, gentler Kristen was freaking bizarre.  Leave them out of it or play up the endless rivalry.  I agree you either make Kristen reformed and have SH play it or don't.  Going back and forth with different actresses, different motivations, different screen partners, etc is a disservice to both actresses.

Again, Kristen is a smart character, regardless of her flaws, but Ron makes her epically dumb.  Her plans consist of face masks and ridiculously bad choices.  Kristen in the 90's was nothing if not one step ahead and this Kristen is just not that bright.

I agree with a lot of this.

The mask stuff is a problem and I've voiced it. It's stupid. But the combustibility of this Kristen?

Yes please.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

29 minutes ago, Vee said:

Ironically, the only place I think Stacy is actually that popular is a subset of Twitter. 

Again, talented actress, and I do think Kristen has always had layers. Just not the kind of layers to justify what the show has attempted to do with Kristen via poor writing, which is defang her and then reverse themselves with a 180, repeatedly. The show isn't capable of reinventing the wheel with Kristen. If they were I'd have been open to it, as I was with her when they originally did the time jump. But they couldn't pull it off and they haven't done it. Eileen can play layers too, the current show just isn't interested. They thought they could make a 'new' Kristen with a new actress, and instead failed to write it. Now IMO people are conflating their admiration for the actress trying to elevate the material with a legitimately good attempt at remaking the character. But DAYS hasn't delivered it.

Indeed. I don't mind Stacey and if they want to make her a long-term viable character on the canvas then I say why not since Eileen isn't interested in doing it full time. Hell, I thought making her and Lani friends was a good idea to ground her character a bit, unfortunately it seems like Ron can only switch between two extremes with Kristen and it's not working. I think he (and the show) needs to decide if they want her long-term in Salem and be able to mix it up with others, or just have pop-in visits that Sheila usually is on B&B. If it's the later, then they might as well give the part back to Eileen because I feel like she can do more subtext with the character because of her long history with the show.

6 minutes ago, KLN said:

I agree with a lot of this. Especially what you said about J&M and Ron dumbing things down.

I wasn't watching at the time but I saw a picture of Kristen and Marlena hugging and thought what the bluedilly f___ is going on over there?!

Never, EVER, should Marlena be used to redeem the woman who tried to kill her. Never. It's a bridge too far.

Kristen can do her dirtier than the floors but NEVER should they be hugging. Ever.

It's sacrilege.

I totally get Marlena is very forgiving and I do think she tends to overcompensate when it comes to Brady whether the show explicitly says that or not.  The woman tried to redeem Stefano for a minute in the 90's, but Marlena's extreme paranoia/distrust over Kristen is what drove her and John apart in the first place in 2013.   Kristen asking Marlena to raise Rachel was one of the strangest things I have ever seen and it's Days so that says a lot.  That would never even happen.

Kristen just needs a clear trajectory.  If they are going to redeem her-do it.  She can still get in her own way ala Sami, but she can't kidnap people anymore.  If her and Brady are endgame make that happen I guess.  To me, being John/Marlena's foil was Kristen's main gig.  Either drop it or continue it.  Don't play both sides.  The weeping and sobbing Stacy does is not really Kristen.  Kristen is cool and calculated and smart.  A rightful Dimera heir (over those losers Jake and Chad).  Throw her into that world.   If Wayne was playing Roman I would agree to throw them together to give maximum annoyance to John/Marlena.  And we need one actress playing her and stick with it.   I would honestly completely drop Susan because I absolutely detest her, but she does have a purpose and good chemistry with DF as EJ.

Idk, lately I feel like there has been so much messiness with Kristen/Eileen/Stacy that the character needs a break for a minute.

On 1/1/2022 at 3:00 PM, te. said:

I thought making her and Lani friends was a good idea to ground her character a bit, unfortunately it seems like Ron can only switch between two extremes with Kristen and it's not working.

.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

The JER storytelling made more sense with John/Marlena when Wayne was there as Roman.  She wanted him back, even though she wanted John too.  There was enough history and the iconic nature of Marlena/Roman that them not being honest made some sense to me.  While I loved Kristen (even before she went to the Stefano side of things), she never seemed like a true threat to them.  So it got increasingly stupid to me that they didn’t just admit their feelings at that point with Roman gone.

I wish SH was playing someone other than Kristen.  Because Eileen is a very specific actress and the character is missing her IMO.  I like SH just fine, she will just never hit it out of the park for me.

BTW, I felt this way about Ashley too-  I grew to love Brenda as Ashley.  But when Eileen came back it was like oh yeah- this is Ashley.

Edited January 1, 20223 yr by titan1978

49 minutes ago, KLN said:

Random question: I was too young for Ryan's Hope but I remember promos from the SOAPnet days... how does Delia Coleridge compare to Kristen?

In my opinion, Delia Reid Ryan Coleridge had a completely different vibe than Kristen.

She was always scheming to get whatever man she had set her sights on, and did some bad things that physically harmed people.  But she seemed more like a Sami Brady schemer (to a much much greater extreme!) who had gone off the rails and had no boundaries.

Just my perception.

On 1/1/2022 at 3:38 PM, titan1978 said:

BTW, I felt this way about Ashley too-  I grew to love Brenda as Ashley.  But when Eileen came back it was like oh yeah- this is Ashley.

I get it.

There's nostalgia with Eileen and I love her. Everybody knows. It just doesn't have the same pull with me anymore.

I love them both but Stacy fits today.

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN

5 minutes ago, KLN said:

I get it.

There's nostalgia with Eileen and I love her. Everybody knows. It just doesn't have the same pull with me anymore. 

I think not watching for a while made a difference, I grew up and my tastes changed. I dunno.

I love them both but Stacy fits today IMO.

It’s not just nostalgia for me.  I just think Eileen is a more specific performer.  I also haven’t watched much of the show in years.  I was never a person that worshipped JER’s DAYS either.  I wonder how I would feel if this was anyone but RC writing though.

Part of my issue is that I have rewatched the first couple of years of Reilly on DAYS recently, and it was easy to forget when he drive me away how good the earlier period on the show was.  It wasn’t full of all his tics that were nearly fully in place by the time of the Posessesion.  And you get to see the earlier version of Kristen and her slow slide.

4 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

The JER storytelling made more sense with John/Marlena when Wayne was there as Roman.  She wanted him back, even though she wanted John too.  There was enough history and the iconic nature of Marlena/Roman that them not being honest made some sense to me.  While I loved Kristen (even before she went to the Stefano side of things), she never seemed like a true threat to them.  So it got increasingly stupid to me that they didn’t just admit their feelings at that point with Roman gone.

I wish SH was playing someone other than Kristen.  Because Eileen is a very specific actress and the character is missing her IMO.  I like SH just fine, she will just never hit it out of the park for me.

BTW, I felt this way about Ashley too-  I grew to love Brenda as Ashley.  But when Eileen came back it was like oh yeah- this is Ashley.

Agree about the John/Marlena stuff with Roman.  That made sense.  Even if Marlena wasn't truly clear on her feelings she had a desire to make it right and get her family back.  Once Roman left and the dust settled the only person who would have issues with Jarlena being together is Sami and she was mean to them regardless, so who cares?

I get the religion aspect, but literally John has impregnated all his women out of wedlock so again who cares?

The story definitely took a turn with the John/Kristen/Tony stuff, but I always thought Kristen was a vehicle for John to 'get over' Marlena.  There was a year or so we were supposed to take them as a serious love story, but with Roman gone and Marlena without any love interest at all did anyone believe it?  From Maison Blanche on John/Marlena would fall all over one another unapologetically and it was very hard to believe they were attracted to each other enough to have sex on a conference table and do that to Roman, but now were just BFF and co parents.  I am surprised Kristen took their ridiculousness as long as she did before turning evil.

On 1/1/2022 at 3:22 PM, KLN said:

.

.

On 1/1/2022 at 3:58 PM, carolineg said:

Kristen was a vehicle for John to 'get over' Marlena. 

From Maison Blanche on John/Marlena would fall all over one another unapologetically... 

I am surprised Kristen took their ridiculousness as long as she did before turning evil 

 

Edited April 3, 20232 yr by KLN