On 10/22/2021 at 7:39 PM, Soaplovers said:

I think Bell shifting away from the original recipe Logans after a year or two did hurt the show.  Shame the show couldn't have kept them..along with introducing the Spectras.

See I find the show much better than I'd heard from the early years, but the one part that doesn't work for me is the Logan family. Brooke is a successful character from the gate, Storm has potential if given more to do and I like the concept of Beth although the actress (I'm still on the original) is weak. Katie and Donna are complete duds for me. I don't know if either gets better, but Katie's storyline is one note and Donna hasn't made much of an impression although the actress seems better than the one playing Katie. I can't see myself missing this family based on how dull they all are. You can tell he was inspired by the Foster family, but they had a lot more going for them that this family does. Snapper and Greg had real stories and personality and so did Jill and Liz. I feel like the writing is letting the Logan's down, but mostly they were just horribly cast outside of Brooke. Beth could've been a long term viable competition for Eric, but you need someone who can stand up next to Susan Flannery and John McCook and this first actress ain't it.

On 10/23/2021 at 12:16 AM, BoldRestless said:

They're almost done posting August 1987 and no preemptions for Iran-Contra. They have the show airing every day in July and August so far. I wonder if they are not posting the actual airdates but the planned airdates from ths scripts. That would mean they might jump ahead and have a bunch of "missing days" in September to catch up.

I could totally see that it is the way they have stored these episodes because the log files from the Bill Bell Script Archive which were posted on this board years ago also went by scheduled air dates and not actual air dates…

1 hour ago, Chris B said:

See I find the show much better than I'd heard from the early years, but the one part that doesn't work for me is the Logan family. Brooke is a successful character from the gate, Storm has potential if given more to do and I like the concept of Beth although the actress (I'm still on the original) is weak. Katie and Donna are complete duds for me. I don't know if either gets better, but Katie's storyline is one note and Donna hasn't made much of an impression although the actress seems better than the one playing Katie. I can't see myself missing this family based on how dull they all are. You can tell he was inspired by the Foster family, but they had a lot more going for them that this family does. Snapper and Greg had real stories and personality and so did Jill and Liz. I feel like the writing is letting the Logan's down, but mostly they were just horribly cast outside of Brooke. Beth could've been a long term viable competition for Eric, but you need someone who can stand up next to Susan Flannery and John McCook and this first actress ain't it.

That is an interesting observation. I do think the Logans worked in the early years, but I also think it was the right decision to shift focus away from them when the Spectras came to the show because it made the show take place in "one world" (the fashion world) rather than two. But the early Logan years were necessary to create a backstory for Brooke and a strong foundation for the Stephanie/Brooke rivalry (I still think this was the main goal of teasing Eric/Beth because romantically that relationship never really went anywhere, being based mainly on nostalgia, but it did serve the purpose of making Stephanie and Brooke enemies).

Personally, I found Donna more dynamic than Storm. Storm rarely carried a storyline while Donna had several storylines of her own during those first few years. Katie I'd put in the same category as Grandma Logan - mainly there to create the "family" feeling. 

Very interesting discussion.

It's fun to speculate on what Bill Bell's plans were for the show.

It seems the Ridge/Caroline/Thorne/Brooke story was always going to be the main thrust and pretty much played out as planned.

By his own admission,Bill didn't plan too far ahead in the sense that he waited to see what the actors brought to the role and how his ideas played out onscreen.

I have a feeling that Eric/Beth/Stephanie was going to be more prominent but once he got into it he saw that was not the case. Hence the replacement of Judith Baldwin with Nancy Burnett. If she was replaced only because she was weak in the role then some of the younger cast should have been dropped also.

As stated, having the Logans operate in a different sphere brought its own issues as there is just so much story you can tell in 30 mins. Bill was savvy enough to know that and was probably happy enough to let some characters slide into support roles with the possibility of more story down the line.

Wish he had have spoken about this at some point.

I recall with Y&R he talked about Chris and Snapper and how popular they were as actors and characters and yet he didn't know what to do with them after the first year.

 

 

I have the feeling the Ridge/Brooke/Caroline/Thorne situation was always meant to end with a violent or tragic confrontation between the brothers. 

To me, everything leading up to Thorne shooting Ridge felt like the "first act" of B&B. We got to know the characters and the main conflicts, and then starting in late '88 or early '89, things started becoming more intense, in several storylines, and we began seeing the payoff.

4 hours ago, Videnbas said:

Personally, I found Donna more dynamic than Storm. Storm rarely carried a storyline while Donna had several storylines of her own during those first few years. Katie I'd put in the same category as Grandma Logan - mainly there to create the "family" feeling. 

I agree. I found myself giggling when Donna accused Rocco of being a "capitalist". That Donna would have been more relevant today. I wish they had kept some of those characteristics as time went by. At least this Donna seems like she had something going on in her brain, rather than being a blonde bimbo.

Nancy Sloane was affable enough but the writing wasn't there for Katie...at all. The actress did what she could, given the limitations of the role. As my mother would say "You cannot get blood from a stone".

Storm's romance with Alex actually made me think for a moment that there was some possibility for the character to have some possibility but there was no genuine development of the character beyond obvious plot point. The most interesting aspect of his relationship with that Alex character is that IRL, the actress who played her is a right-winger who was a part of the T*ump administration.

4 hours ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I agree. I found myself giggling when Donna accused Rocco of being a "capitalist". That Donna would have been more relevant today. I wish they had kept some of those characteristics as time went by. At least this Donna seems like she had something going on in her brain, rather than being a blonde bimbo.

Nancy Sloane was affable enough but the writing wasn't there for Katie...at all. The actress did what she could, given the limitations of the role. As my mother would say "You cannot get blood from a stone".

Storm's romance with Alex actually made me think for a moment that there was some possibility for the character to have some possibility but there was no genuine development of the character beyond obvious plot point. The most interesting aspect of his relationship with that Alex character is that IRL, the actress who played her is a right-winger who was a part of the T*ump administration.

Donna was pretty active the first 3 years before being made to be support for Brooke.  The actress even said that was the reason she didn't stay on.

During Donna's nude magazine story, Katie had a few meaty scenes...but I agree that the actress could only do so much.  I'd assumed when watching the 1st episodes that a possible story would have been Katie getting a 'ugly duckling' story where she blossomed over time...sadly didn't happen.

4 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

Donna was pretty active the first 3 years before being made to be support for Brooke.  The actress even said that was the reason she didn't stay on.

During Donna's nude magazine story, Katie had a few meaty scenes...but I agree that the actress could only do so much.  I'd assumed when watching the 1st episodes that a possible story would have been Katie getting a 'ugly duckling' story where she blossomed over time...sadly didn't happen.

The modeling story got pretty good with time and I liked the Rocco/Donna/Nick dynamic. As well as Donna & Bill - dropping this potential did not make mich sense, IMO.

Heather Tom should have been a recast Donna instead of Katie..imho.

I feel like they just wanted to use Heather Tom and gave her a role (Katie) without putting much thought into it.  Likewise they probably cast Jennifer Gareis as Donna, because they thought she slightly resembled Brooke.  They seemed to toss the original concept and personalities of Donna & Katie out the window with the recasts.  

19 hours ago, sheilaforever said:

The modeling story got pretty good with time and I liked the Rocco/Donna/Nick dynamic. As well as Donna & Bill - dropping this potential did not make mich sense, IMO.

Yes, Donna/Bill was an interesting dynamic. He seemed genuinely smitten by her and she was torn between wanting revenge and being grateful to him for giving her a chance at Spencer. 

Revisiting these early episodes, in comparison with the recent seasons '00s, it just seems like the Brad Bell episodes that I have watched seem much more superficial.

I would add that one of the failures of the early years that I've observed in the re-watch, is that not much happens plot-wise to keep me coming back.

I appreciate all of the sets, costumes, and lack there of on the Forrester bros.  But, where's the mystery?  I know Forrester Creations will succeed regardless of the creativity of their designs.  Both the Logan and Forrester family seem too solid to be torn apart by love or money (heck they even shoot each other and get over it pretty quickly).  The traumas of Caroline and Brooke being victims of assault are also no mystery because we've met the assailant, and their fate is inconsequential.  So, there are no stakes and no surprises, which leaves me a little bored. 

Edited October 29, 20214 yr by j swift

On 10/28/2021 at 6:54 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Revisiting these early episodes, in comparison with the recent seasons '00s, it just seems like the Brad Bell episodes that I have watched seem much more superficial.

This is definitely true of the current episodes and the past few decades. The Bill Bell episodes take a lot more time building characters and playing every beat in a story. 

Edited October 30, 20214 yr by Videnbas

5 hours ago, j swift said:

I would add that one of the failures of the early years that I've observed in the re-watch, is that not much happens plot-wise to keep me coming back.

I appreciate all of the sets, costumes, and lack there of on the Forrester bros.  But, where's the mystery?  I know Forrester Creations will succeed regardless of the creativity of their designs.  Both the Logan and Forrester family seem too solid to be torn apart by love or money (heck they even shoot each other and get over it pretty quickly).  The traumas of Caroline and Brooke being victims of assault are also no mystery because we've met the assailant, and their fate is inconsequential.  So, there are no stakes and no surprises, which leaves me a little bored. 

I actually appreciate this slow build of the early years. To me, everything prior to Thorne shooting Ridge in 1988 is like the first act of a play - introducing characters and relationships, planting seeds for future conflicts, setting the stage for what is to come. There are a lot of clues dropped in passing during those years that foreshadow future storylines and absent characters that were yet to be introduced. For example, the Angela storyline and the Spectra vs Forrester storyline really start back in 1987, years before the principal characters of those storylines are first seen. The rivalry that culminates with Thorne shooting Ridge builds continually from the very first weeks of the show. Stephanie's character building is wonderful. I get the greatest kicks when watching the early shows catching all the little moments of foreshadowing.