28 minutes ago, Khan said:

Am I wrong, or was there a character who was in the cast and was involved in the massacre, but when the show returned for the next season, he/she was never seen or mentioned again?

Lady Ashley Mitchell, the photojournalist played by Ali MacGraw. At least Luke Fuller (Billy Campbell), Steven's boyfriend, got to have a dying scene. Lady A only got what turned out to be a death scene. The terrorists attack, she starts photographing the carnage and former boyfriend Jeff is caught in the line of fire as he tries getting her to stop. 

4 hours ago, JellicleCat said:

 

That wasn't really a retcon though, was it? Just a bad cliffhanger.

 

It was a good cliffhanger. Were the show faltered was, as always, with the follow-up and its execution. 

 

I guess it can be seen as a retcon considering the last shot of Season 5 had all of them unconscious with bloodied heads/wounds and yet Season 6 starts and all they've gotten is a little ruffled.

4 hours ago, Roman said:

Bobby and the shower scene. 

 

Ugh.  The daddy of all retcons, lol.  Whenever anyone laments about the sad state of affairs at this-or-that show, someone will inevitably suggest having a character (like, in GL's case, Maureen Bauer) awaken to learn that It Was All Just a Bad Dream.

 

Unfortunately, I don't think DALLAS had any other choice BUT to retcon Bobby's death.  Larry Hagman had made it clear that he wanted Duffy back (and Duffy, of course, was eager to COME back since he discovered how limited his career opportunities were, I think) "or else."  They couldn't just say that Miss Ellie once had twins OR that Bobby had faked his death, because both proposed solutions were deemed too preposterous for a show that, even though it was a nighttime soap opera, had been grounded thus far in SOME reality (which is why I always look at the Wes Parmalee/Ben Stivers story as a clear sign that DALLAS was losing its way even before Bobby's shower).

 

The only alternative that I can think of would be to have had Duffy return, but as a Bobby lookalike.  Sort of like how KNOTS LANDING had Lisa Hartman return as Cathy after killing off Ciji, J.R. could have hired the Bobby lookalike to drive Pam nuts and separate her from Mark Graison.  But would DALLAS fans have been as receptive toward Patrick Duffy coming back as a less-than-noble character?  That's the question.

5 minutes ago, YRBB said:

I guess it can be seen as a retcon considering the last shot of Season 5 had all of them unconscious with bloodied heads/wounds and yet Season 6 starts and all they've gotten is a little ruffled.

 

Like David Paulsen once said, one of DYNASTY's biggest problems was that they never paid off any of their cliffhangers.

 

IIRC, the producers had planned, post-wedding, to have Alexis be crowned queen of Moldavia.  However, Joan Collins' prolonged contract negotiations put the old kibosh on that story -- which I see as a blessing in disguise, quite frankly.

 

I feel like there were so many directions that DYNASTY could have taken with the Moldavian Massacre.  For example, what if Blake Carrington had been killed?  What if Krystle, as his widow, were forced to assume control of Denver Carrington?  Which one of Blake's kids would be on her side (I would say Amanda), and which wouldn't (Steven, because, as time goes on, Adam and Alexis are manipulating the situation, making it appear as if Krystle is incapable of running a corporation as large as DC by herself)?  And what would happen to Dex and Alexis' on-again, off-again relationship as Dex, who initially steps in to help Krystle, becomes attracted to the still-grieving widow?

Knots Landing remained in the Bobby is dead prime reality after they brought him back.  Which I always think is hilarious.  Knots was a better show IMO.  I wish they would get the rest of the episodes out on DVD.

15 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Knots Landing remained in the Bobby is dead prime reality after they brought him back.  Which I always think is hilarious.  

 

David Jacobs respected fans' intelligence enough not to go there -- and really, by that point, KNOTS had established its' own, separate identity, so it wasn't as if one show NEEDED the other anymore.  Also, depending on who you ask, whenever they had characters from DALLAS cross-over to KL, the results could be hit-and-miss.  (J.R. and Abby's hookup, good; Kristin's guest stint, bad.)

 

Unfortunately, having DALLAS and KL exist from that point forward in separate universes created some problems.  Like, if Bobby is still dead in the KL universe, then does that mean that everything else that happens on DALLAS after the shower isn't happening as well?  Has the entire Ewing clan at Southfork ceased to be?  And are the Gary and Val who appear in the new DALLAS (and who have separated once again) the same Gary and Val from the KL-verse, or do we have a situation of Parallel Gary and Vals, existing simultaneously in different universes, but not necessarily sharing the same experiences?

 

Yes, it's that moment when soap operas lapse into bad sci-fi.

Edited May 23, 20187 yr by Khan

16 minutes ago, titan1978 said:

Knots Landing remained in the Bobby is dead prime reality after they brought him back.  Which I always think is hilarious.  Knots was a better show IMO.  I wish they would get the rest of the episodes out on DVD.

Sales were not good and thus no more releases. Dallas was a much bigger seller in DVDs than any of its other soap counterparts...ie.....Knots, FC and Dynasty.....although we got a completed Dynasty and The Colbys and more FC than Knots.

5 minutes ago, Khan said:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, having DALLAS and KL exist from that point forward in separate universes created some problems.  Like, if Bobby is still dead in the KL universe, then does that mean that everything else that happens on DALLAS after the shower isn't happening as well?  Has the entire Ewing clan at Southfork ceased to be?  And are the Gary and Val who appear in the new DALLAS (and who have separated once again) the same Gary and Val from the KL-verse, or do we have a situation of Parallel Gary and Vals, existing simultaneously in different universes, but not necessarily sharing the same experiences?

 

 

I thought the same thing back in the day....LOL  crazy isn't it?

Shout! Factory should have acquired the rights and released the entire series of KL in one package.  IJS.

David Jacobs said when they told him what they planned to do to bring Bobby back, he told them it was a mistake. He also said the same thing when Dallas characters crossed over into Knots, it never really worked. J.R. was realistic in his bigger than life persona on Dallas, but on Knots he came across as a mustache twirling villain. Remember the second episode of Knots "Community Spirit" ? I always thought it was silly how he came across and at the end Gary and Valene just laughed at his antics. What ? 

That's what I loved most about David Jacobs.  Out of all those who ran the big four primetime soaps -- Jacobs, Katzman, the Shapiros, Earl Hamner* -- he seemed to be the one who was best at keeping characters and stories grounded and somewhat relatable; and he seemed to know, too, what the audience could and could not accept.  I feel like he would have been a terrific EP or HW for some of the daytime shows.

 

 

(*Earl Hamner tried as best he could to keep FALCON CREST relatable as well, but watching those shows, I often feel like the man was in way over his head, working with a series that wasn't at all how he had envisioned it in the beginning.)

13 minutes ago, Khan said:

Shout! Factory should have acquired the rights and released the entire series of KL in one package.  IJS.

They are the only ones that could probably release it all. I wonder if WB is willing to give up the rights though.

7 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

I wonder if WB is willing to give up the rights though.

 

Prolly not.  Just like with P&G and their soaps: sitting on the rights to release them on DVD without actually releasing them does them zero good, but like hell they're gonna sell 'em and allow an outside entity to make coin off them.

1 hour ago, Khan said:

Like David Paulsen once said, one of DYNASTY's biggest problems was that they never paid off any of their cliffhangers.

 

IIRC, the producers had planned, post-wedding, to have Alexis be crowned queen of Moldavia.  However, Joan Collins' prolonged contract negotiations put the old kibosh on that story -- which I see as a blessing in disguise, quite frankly.

 

I feel like there were so many directions that DYNASTY could have taken with the Moldavian Massacre.  For example, what if Blake Carrington had been killed?  What if Krystle, as his widow, were forced to assume control of Denver Carrington?  Which one of Blake's kids would be on her side (I would say Amanda), and which wouldn't (Steven, because, as time goes on, Adam and Alexis are manipulating the situation, making it appear as if Krystle is incapable of running a corporation as large as DC by herself)?  And what would happen to Dex and Alexis' on-again, off-again relationship as Dex, who initially steps in to help Krystle, becomes attracted to the still-grieving widow?

 

True. It KILLS me that TPTB didn't give Paulsen the carte blanche he wanted in order to take over as showrunner in Season 6. Had he done that, the show would have turned around immediately and I'm pretty sure would have held on to its #1 ranking and gotten several more seasons out of it. Ah, what could have been. But that's DYNASTY's story in general: Wasted potential.

 

I don't think Collins' negotiations had anything to do with it. She was only gone for one episode, after all. The scrapping of the coronation was from the intense backlash and quick drop in ratings following the season 6 premiere. They were in trouble, and they knew it.

 

34 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Sales were not good and thus no more releases.

 

AFAIK, it wasn't the sales, it was the music rights. Eventually, even if they'd gotten Season 3 out, the Hartman songs would cripple them.

Edited May 23, 20187 yr by YRBB

17 minutes ago, YRBB said:

 

 

 

 

AFAIK, it wasn't the sales, it was the music rights. Eventually, even if they'd gotten Season 3 out, the Hartman songs would cripple them.

Not buying it. WB does very good in clearing music rights in their dvd releases. I doubt anyone wanted to hear Hartman sing anyways......LOL......that's not what was great about that season.

4 minutes ago, Soapsuds said:

Not buying it. WB does very good in clearing music rights in their dvd releases. I doubt anyone wanted to hear Hartman sing anyways......LOL......that's not what was great about that season.

 

Still, it's the music rights. Unless KL was a massive seller (thus providing WB incentive to spend big), they will likely never get through that hurdle.

 

Hartman sings as Ciji and Cathy on camera many, many, many times throughout seasons 4-7. It's not like you can even replace the music with something else, unless you butcher the episodes by cutting the scenes out. Which is impossible.

2 hours ago, Khan said:

 

Am I wrong, or was there a character who was in the cast and was involved in the massacre, but when the show returned for the next season, he/she was never seen or mentioned again?

 

I don't think it's too late for John to become Roman again.  Yes, many characters' histories and such would have to be retconned, but a smart HW would know how to spin story from all the entanglements that would arise from John turning out to be Roman after all.  (Also, it would explain why Marlena was drawn to John even after Wayne's Roman returned...and why, when Wayne DID return as Roman, he wasn't at all like how I remembered him.)

 

For me, though, the big question would be: if John is really Roman, then who is Roman?  I'm okay with Josh Taylor's Roman leaving Salem to find out -- and maybe, since Josh has that job only because he and Ken Corday are buds, having him come back a month or so later as Chris Kositchek -- but that might not be satisfying for everyone.

 

Speaking of retcons and DAYS, have we mentioned the horrendous "Alex North" storyline?  Because, if we haven't, then we should (...I guess).  What an illogical, excruciating, and ultimately pointless mess to watch unfold.  Even worse, it wasted a good return on Wayne Northrop.  I'd much rather had seen him come back as Roman's long-lost twin brother than as some psycho, forgotten ex-husband of Doc Evans' who just happened to look like the police detective who was once her husband and the father of her children.

Here's what wild about the MWM on Dynasty.....only two recurring characters died. and the reason that was done, was that everyone who was on the floor...their contracts were all up. so it would be simple for them to be killed of. it's also why it was wrapped up in 3 episodes they went home and it was never referred to again. I also do think one character who was chief to the proceedings was never referred to again. 

with Roman, when Wayne came back as Alex North....he was supposed to turn out to be Roman. how I have no clue since no one recognized him...and when would his Roman have time to go to med school?