I hated the first hour -- the stories moved way too fast. I also didn't care for the direction of Mario Van Peebles aka Samuel Woods.

Edited March 20, 201510 yr by Jonathan

Can you imagine walking down the street with a man like that?

Random person, "Excuse me, sir, can you tell me the time, please?

JamaLee, "I'm gay, and yeah, I can tell time, bruh...What's good. Whatchoo wanna do?".

*Loudly Cackling*

It's that monster in him that Lucious needed to see."

*Loudly Cackling*

But seriously though. I understand that every gay man that has ever been called soft when they didn't feel that they were, is getting every bit of their life from Jamal's "masculinity" (and I use that term loosely because being a man does not mean acting aggressive without fear and common sense). But, they have to be the only ones. They are killing the character with this nonsense. It's not cute on any character set in modern day. I could see if Jamal was a gladiator in 35 BC Rome. He's not. This is a real issue for that character that needs to be toned down.

Episodes 11 & 12 were a lot stronger than 8, 9 and 10.

The pacing point has been spoken about already, so I won't belabor that point any further. I will say this is the first time that I have ever really liked Lucious in the entire series, and literally all it took was for the writers to inject something into his character that was at least semi-understandable, nearly human and relatable. Hearing him say that his treatment of Jamal was due to fear and his own internal struggle with his innocence and insecurities alleviated and illuminated a lot about him, and the parallel of Dwight Walker and Jamal was a nice metaphor. His fear that Dwight/Jamal couldn't exist in the world and needed to be changed was something that one could at least logically follow. Where the hell was that all season?

The flashbacks and everything was a really nice touch, it highlighted the journeys of Cookie and Jamal particularly very well, but the writers have always done very well in highlighting these characters. That being said I am tired of the Jamal character at this point of the story, and I think it would do them well to limit his centrality to the show over the course of next season. The character work and focus for Cookie, Jamal and Lucious in these episodes ere at a completely different level than the rest of the cast. They really need to start spreading the wealth. Jamal in particular has been strongly defined as a character but it's to the detriment of others two brothers. He's overexposed and Andre and Hakeem are starting to feel like side characters and foils, they really need to expand the other two brothers, asap. I do wonder if they will have Jamal go over to the dark side, next season and align with Lucious or if they will try to have him mediate on both sides.

Not convinced on this quartet, like at all, I don't buy it, these relationships and alliances felt contrived and forced to near incredulity, I can buy Andre's deference -- that's been the big picture from the beginning, but the Hakeem and Anika connection feels both gratuitous and unrealistic, and having a four minute cat fight doesn't change the sheer ridiculousness of having Cookie work with Anika. The audience isn't there yet.

Vernon, like Bunky has felt like such an after thought on this show that they feel like plot contrivances to push things along. I don't understand why Andre and Rhonda won't go to the police, when it's obvious it was self defense. That kind of stupidity isn't justified primarily because we've seen how intelligent Andre and Rhonda are in there schemes, corporate espionage and general manipulation and mind tricks. That said I am glad Rhonda took Andre out of the church storyline and pushed Jennifer Hudson off screen, that storyline needed to die with the quickest death possible. I am really hoping the fatherhood storyline will give the character of Andre some depth and real character opportunity in the second season. Rhonda's been a very unappreciated supporting character this season right along with Becky to me.

I am glad Malcolm is taken out of the Cookie storyline, I don't even know why that proposed story tangent wasn't nixed early in the writers room. Cookie doesn't need an extraneous love interests that don't mean anything in the larger context of her narrative story. she really doesn't need a man in her storyline at all, especially one who seems inconsequential as Malcolm was. She works better as a walking tornado that disrupts Lucious life, excels in business practices, street and other wise and is there for her children.

This is another point where I feel stronger character work is needed. I can fill in the blanks more or less if I have solid characterization down and say without a doubt "oh yeah Cookie would do this", but in other cases where that isn't inherent there needs to be better build up. That was pretty much where the quartet fell apart for me. Hopefully Empire can make up for it next season, cause even now I don't buy it.

And that also makes her the strong black woman trope and takes away a a large aspect of any character's humanity along with a female character's femininity. We have seen enough of black women like that on our TV. No thanks.

Edited March 21, 201510 yr by ajsp35801

The ONLY excuse I'd ever accept for Cookie choosing to remain single for the indefinite future is that she was in prison for so long without a man that it's nothing for her to continue on the same path. However, even that would be a stretch, because this character is so sexually charged that giving her the "don't need no man" write would just be a stupid decision.

I miss Empire already and hasn't even been a full week.

I was at the beauty shop yesterday and of course we were all talking about Empire. Listening to everybody else's ideas made me wonder what's on everybody's season 2 wish list?

It will surprise no one that I want more episodes and for the show to slow down a bit. Somebody here has mentioned the desire for a second "rival" family. I agree with that. I thought that's what we were getting with the introduction of Berretti and I think it could still happen. Judd Nelson and Terrance Howard play very nicely off each other as friends turned enemies. I'd like the show to play that up and deepen it.

I'd like the show to stop killing folks off for short-term plot. We lost both Bunky and Vernon this season and a lot of potential stories died with them. The show is about a family yet in one short season they killed off two members of it. I find it unfortunate that we lost Bunky, Vernon and Malcom. I guess the show is doubling down on on the lion analogy by getting rid of any male competition for Lucious.

And lastly, I need Hakeem to stop wearing those earrings. Cookie can pull off big earrings. He can't.

My season 2 wish list:

- more episodes (at least 20): they have the story, and the episodes have not dragged. On the contrary, they've flown by, and some flew by faster than others because there was just so much going on. They'd handle a full season masterfully.

- slower pace: show all the beats of a story. I can't believe we didn't see Cookie finding out about Anika and Hakeem! Stuff like that needs to be shown, but when you're rushing to get to Jamal threatening to throw people off of balconies...

- less murder: it's harder to root for characters when you watch them kill people in cold blood or directly cause their death. It adds a level of darkness that I just don't want to see on the show

- full opening credits: with You're So Beautiful as the theme song

- Cookie's family: more of her people, even just in short arcs but definitely a niece or nephew to stay

- Beretti feud fleshed out: I don't know if it's even worth it because of how quickly it all escalated in season one.

I really don't want much, to be honest. I truly am loving this show, they just have some big things to work on.

My season two wish list is simple:

1. Extend the season. I could go for 20 but I think a lot can be accomplished in just 16 episodes if the writing is there.

2. Bring on that much-needed rival family to shake things up and add new dimensions.

3. Present less music. Yes, I understand the premise is all about music, but sometimes less is more. I think no more than two musical performances per episode would be more than enough to help maintain the show's premise.

4. Fix the pacing and create some REAL storyline arcs. I think Melrose Place (also formerly on FOX) had the perfect pacing. It wasn't too fast nor was it too slow. The characters on that show all had story arcs which extended from one episode to the next. Melrose Place is the style that Empire should adopt.

The finale was terrible by the way.

Edited March 22, 201510 yr by Vanguardian

16 episodes.

More info on Cookie and Carol's upbringing. I agree with bringing on a teenage niece for Cookie.

Find out why the Nation of Islam killed Lucious' father.

Something that I definitely do NOT want ever: any explanation, at all, of Cookie's name. Don't tell me that it's just a nickname or short for something else. Don't even give me a reason why she was named "Cookie." I love the fact that that's her name and no one questions it.

I think adding some major rival family out of fanfiction would just turn the show into another tired daytime soap clone. I have little interest in that. This show is not Y&R and it's not daytime, it is not about many families, it's about this family and this business. Empire is a hit, there's no need to make it into something else to make it more palatable to hidebound daytime fans.

Edited March 22, 201510 yr by Vee

I think adding some major rival family out of fanfiction would just turn the show into another tired daytime soap clone. I have little interest in that. This show is not Y&R and it's not daytime, it is not about many families, it's about this family and this business. Empire is a hit, there's no need to make it into something else to make it more palatable to hidebound daytime fans.

I agree with you. Once upon a time I thought having a rival family would have been a great idea. But that was because I wanted a Romeo and Romeo love story for Jamal for purely selfish reasons.

But considering all the blunders we've seen with shows like Sleepy Hollow, who found success early with their AA cast only then to marginalize them in season 2 for white characters, I don't want that possibility here. I can just hear the network execs looking at the ratings report saying, "if we added some more white people...". I'll pass!

I think that the formula thus far has worked. Don't try to fix what's not broken.

The rivalry is going to be Lucious and Jamal vs. the rest of the family (plus Anika), at least that's how the finale set things up. I think that is better than a rival family.

I think adding some major rival family out of fanfiction would just turn the show into another tired daytime soap clone. I have little interest in that. This show is not Y&R and it's not daytime, it is not about many families, it's about this family and this business. Empire is a hit, there's no need to make it into something else to make it more palatable to hidebound daytime fans.

This isn't about fanfiction and it's not about daytime! It's about how this show keeps being referred to by the writers as a SOAP OPERA! It needs to ACT like one, a good STEADY one at least. I "love" how the season has now ended with no revisiting of Cookie's arranged hit. What was that for without follow up? Olivia came along, dumped a child on Jamal claiming she was his, she abruptly left, Jamal and Lola bonded briefly with no one in the family demanding a paternity test, Olivia returns with some thug by her side threatening to kill the family, he's shot dead while Lucious claims to be Lola's father, Olivia reclaims Lola and they leave for parts unknown while Jamal and the family seem to have no reaction about him not being Lola's father nor any reaction about Lucious being Lola's father and they simply carry on like nothing has happened. What was that plotline for? There were no real consequences to it. And Lucious, given the kind of person he is, just allowed Olivia to leave with his daughter? What about Anika and Hakeem screwing and being busted by Lucious? Lucious catches his woman fuc*ing his youngest son, and he didn't bother to get in her face about it afterwards? Lucious not responding was not a soapy response at all. Then they end this sh!tty season by killing off what was probably one of the show's best weapons: Vernon! This show needs to earn the title of soap opera.

Edited March 22, 201510 yr by Vanguardian

I agree with you. Once upon a time I thought having a rival family would have been a great idea. But that was because I wanted a Romeo and Romeo love story for Jamal for purely selfish reasons.

But considering all the blunders we've seen with shows like Sleepy Hollow, who found success early with their AA cast only then to marginalize them in season 2 for white characters, I don't want that possibility here. I can just hear the network execs looking at the ratings report saying, "if we added some more white people...". I'll pass!

I think that the formula thus far has worked. Don't try to fix what's not broken.

Even if another family isn't added, they need to actually write for the family that they do have. Dropped/inconsistent drama is not writing. Oh, and there's plenty that's broken, but of course, that's my opinion.