Empire: Discussion Thread

[Jonathan]

I hated the first hour -- the stories moved way too fast. I also didn't care for the direction of Mario Van Peebles aka Samuel Woods.

Edited March 20, 2015 by Jonathan

[ajsp35801]

*Loudly Cackling*

It's that monster in him that Lucious needed to see."

*Loudly Cackling*

But seriously though. I understand that every gay man that has ever been called soft when they didn't feel that they were, is getting every bit of their life from Jamal's "masculinity" (and I use that term loosely because being a man does not mean acting aggressive without fear and common sense). But, they have to be the only ones. They are killing the character with this nonsense. It's not cute on any character set in modern day. I could see if Jamal was a gladiator in 35 BC Rome. He's not. This is a real issue for that character that needs to be toned down.

[ajsp35801]

And that also makes her the strong black woman trope and takes away a a large aspect of any character's humanity along with a female character's femininity. We have seen enough of black women like that on our TV. No thanks.

Edited March 21, 2015 by ajsp35801

[All My Shadows]

The ONLY excuse I'd ever accept for Cookie choosing to remain single for the indefinite future is that she was in prison for so long without a man that it's nothing for her to continue on the same path. However, even that would be a stretch, because this character is so sexually charged that giving her the "don't need no man" write would just be a stupid decision.

[Eric83]

I miss Empire already and hasn't even been a full week.

[marceline]

I was at the beauty shop yesterday and of course we were all talking about Empire. Listening to everybody else's ideas made me wonder what's on everybody's season 2 wish list?

It will surprise no one that I want more episodes and for the show to slow down a bit. Somebody here has mentioned the desire for a second "rival" family. I agree with that. I thought that's what we were getting with the introduction of Berretti and I think it could still happen. Judd Nelson and Terrance Howard play very nicely off each other as friends turned enemies. I'd like the show to play that up and deepen it.

I'd like the show to stop killing folks off for short-term plot. We lost both Bunky and Vernon this season and a lot of potential stories died with them. The show is about a family yet in one short season they killed off two members of it. I find it unfortunate that we lost Bunky, Vernon and Malcom. I guess the show is doubling down on on the lion analogy by getting rid of any male competition for Lucious.

And lastly, I need Hakeem to stop wearing those earrings. Cookie can pull off big earrings. He can't.

[All My Shadows]

My season 2 wish list:

- more episodes (at least 20): they have the story, and the episodes have not dragged. On the contrary, they've flown by, and some flew by faster than others because there was just so much going on. They'd handle a full season masterfully.

- slower pace: show all the beats of a story. I can't believe we didn't see Cookie finding out about Anika and Hakeem! Stuff like that needs to be shown, but when you're rushing to get to Jamal threatening to throw people off of balconies...

- less murder: it's harder to root for characters when you watch them kill people in cold blood or directly cause their death. It adds a level of darkness that I just don't want to see on the show

- full opening credits: with You're So Beautiful as the theme song

- Cookie's family: more of her people, even just in short arcs but definitely a niece or nephew to stay

- Beretti feud fleshed out: I don't know if it's even worth it because of how quickly it all escalated in season one.

I really don't want much, to be honest. I truly am loving this show, they just have some big things to work on.

[Vanguardian]

My season two wish list is simple:

1. Extend the season. I could go for 20 but I think a lot can be accomplished in just 16 episodes if the writing is there.

2. Bring on that much-needed rival family to shake things up and add new dimensions.

3. Present less music. Yes, I understand the premise is all about music, but sometimes less is more. I think no more than two musical performances per episode would be more than enough to help maintain the show's premise.

4. Fix the pacing and create some REAL storyline arcs. I think Melrose Place (also formerly on FOX) had the perfect pacing. It wasn't too fast nor was it too slow. The characters on that show all had story arcs which extended from one episode to the next. Melrose Place is the style that Empire should adopt.

The finale was terrible by the way.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Vanguardian

[Eric83]

16 episodes.

More info on Cookie and Carol's upbringing. I agree with bringing on a teenage niece for Cookie.

Find out why the Nation of Islam killed Lucious' father.

[All My Shadows]

Something that I definitely do NOT want ever: any explanation, at all, of Cookie's name. Don't tell me that it's just a nickname or short for something else. Don't even give me a reason why she was named "Cookie." I love the fact that that's her name and no one questions it.

[Vee]

I think adding some major rival family out of fanfiction would just turn the show into another tired daytime soap clone. I have little interest in that. This show is not Y&R and it's not daytime, it is not about many families, it's about this family and this business. Empire is a hit, there's no need to make it into something else to make it more palatable to hidebound daytime fans.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Vee

[ajsp35801]

I agree with you. Once upon a time I thought having a rival family would have been a great idea. But that was because I wanted a Romeo and Romeo love story for Jamal for purely selfish reasons.

But considering all the blunders we've seen with shows like Sleepy Hollow, who found success early with their AA cast only then to marginalize them in season 2 for white characters, I don't want that possibility here. I can just hear the network execs looking at the ratings report saying, "if we added some more white people...". I'll pass!

I think that the formula thus far has worked. Don't try to fix what's not broken.

[ReddFoxx]

The rivalry is going to be Lucious and Jamal vs. the rest of the family (plus Anika), at least that's how the finale set things up. I think that is better than a rival family.

[Vanguardian]

This isn't about fanfiction and it's not about daytime! It's about how this show keeps being referred to by the writers as a SOAP OPERA! It needs to ACT like one, a good STEADY one at least. I "love" how the season has now ended with no revisiting of Cookie's arranged hit. What was that for without follow up? Olivia came along, dumped a child on Jamal claiming she was his, she abruptly left, Jamal and Lola bonded briefly with no one in the family demanding a paternity test, Olivia returns with some thug by her side threatening to kill the family, he's shot dead while Lucious claims to be Lola's father, Olivia reclaims Lola and they leave for parts unknown while Jamal and the family seem to have no reaction about him not being Lola's father nor any reaction about Lucious being Lola's father and they simply carry on like nothing has happened. What was that plotline for? There were no real consequences to it. And Lucious, given the kind of person he is, just allowed Olivia to leave with his daughter? What about Anika and Hakeem screwing and being busted by Lucious? Lucious catches his woman fuc*ing his youngest son, and he didn't bother to get in her face about it afterwards? Lucious not responding was not a soapy response at all. Then they end this sh!tty season by killing off what was probably one of the show's best weapons: Vernon! This show needs to earn the title of soap opera.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Vanguardian

[Vanguardian]

Even if another family isn't added, they need to actually write for the family that they do have. Dropped/inconsistent drama is not writing. Oh, and there's plenty that's broken, but of course, that's my opinion.