@beebs Bo/Hope wedding was May. John Aniston (RIP) debuted in July. Did Stephen Nichols debut in that same time frame? The next big Days action/adventure storyline that I think will impact the ratings is the Miami Vice homage in November.

12 minutes ago, kalbir said:

@beebs Bo/Hope wedding was May. John Aniston (RIP) debuted in July. Did Stephen Nichols debut in that same time frame? The next big Days action/adventure storyline that I think will impact the ratings is the Miami Vice homage in November.

Stephen Nichols appears to have debuted in June. I will say, upon second look, they were coasting in and around 7.0 most of the summer up until August, when the wind seems to go out of their sails. The Pawn also begins in November, which I suspect will start to tick the ratings back up into the new year.

Edited September 17, 20232 yr by beebs

41 minutes ago, beebs said:

We're definitely now hitting SFT's death spiral. DAYS' slight faltering after Bo & Hope's wedding having knock-on effects across the NBC lineup (minus SB who are already thriving). ATWT really struggling, which isn't helping Capitol or GL's numbers. Though the combination of Pam Long's stories starting to sour on the audience, plus SB's growth and PFS' return to GH helping to stabilize them can't help GL.

The Stephanie Braxton/Paul Avila Mayer headwriting team was a disaster for SFT. Everyone was miserable at the show. Nick Nicholson was not a good fit for SFT and ratings tanked during this time.

12 hours ago, soapfave06 said:

Awesome-amazing comeback for OLTL! Glad they hit #2 around this time. 

Gotta love Paul Rauch. When he first came to OLTL after the awful Jean Arley era, ratings were low. In one of Rauch's first interviews after taking the helm he was asked how he felt about competing in the same timeslot as AW, which he produced for years. Paul said "I'm going to wipe them off the map." He did. 

4 hours ago, JAS0N47 said:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS (FAST NATIONALS): WEEK OF 8/26/85-8/30/85:

FROM THE VAULT: WEEKLY DAYTIME NIELSEN RATINGS: WEEKS OF 9/2/85-9/6/85 & 9/9/85-9/13/85:

September 1985 is the beginning of All My Children's 4 year descent and AMC will not begin to recover until September 1989. This is the weakest period of AMC in the 1970s and 1980s. It will finish in the top 3 for 1985-1986. Then descend to No. 4 (3 way tie with OLTL and Days) in 86-87 season then tied for No. 3 for 87-88 with OLTL and then No. 4 in 88-89. AMC ratings will fluctate from No. 1 to No. 7 in the weekly ratings and its performance becomes very erratic until ABC asks Agnes Nixon to return.

Agnes was gone from AMC in 1985 and did to return until 1988 and then Nixon stayed until early 90s. AMC was in the top 3 since 77-78 but its descent is based on the fact that the writing was subpar and it faced intense competition from NBC and CBS. AMC rebounds in 1989 and finishes third in the 89-90 season and 2 years later will dethrone General Hospital as ABC's top soap.

If Agnes Nixon did not leave AMC but stayed on even as a consulting writer, AMC during this period would have be much better.

 

1 hour ago, JoeCool said:

Agnes was gone from AMC in 1985 and did to return until 1988 and then Nixon stayed until early 90s. AMC was in the top 3 since 77-78 but its descent is based on the fact that the writing was subpar and it faced intense competition from NBC and CBS. AMC rebounds in 1989 and finishes third in the 89-90 season and 2 years later will dethrone General Hospital as ABC's top soap.

If Agnes Nixon did not leave AMC but stayed on even as a consulting writer, AMC during this period would have be much better.

 

Why did she leave? Who was HW in her absence? When was she the consultant to the writing on all the ABC soaps? She had a plan at one point that Wisner Washam would write her way in her absence so she could do other things. Why didn't it work? 

Just for my own peace of mind, it bears repeating that weekly changes in ratings are 95% more likely due to chance than any singular variable.

The speculation and nostalgia is fun, but it lacks logical coherence with basic statistical principles. 

10 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Why did she leave? Who was HW in her absence? When was she the consultant to the writing on all the ABC soaps? She had a plan at one point that Wisner Washam would write her way in her absence so she could do other things. Why didn't it work? 

Agnes has said she was exhausted. She intially left AMC as HW in 1982. Winser Washam became HW. Winser was Agnes' protege.  Agnes retunred a writer for brief stints in the early 1980s. Winser was gone in the late 1980s. Lorraine Broderick and Winser were co head writers in 1986 to 1987. In mid 1987 to Nov. 1989, Lorraine was sole HW. Agnes returned as a writer in 1988 and then took over as HW in 1989. 

Agnes was busy with Loving and OLTL during this time. Winser was gone in 1987 so that really explains AMC's descent. Lorraine did not get into her groove and master AMC's tone until 1989.

It did not work simply it was not Agnes and/or Winser. They knew AMC.

12 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Why did she leave? Who was HW in her absence? When was she the consultant to the writing on all the ABC soaps? She had a plan at one point that Wisner Washam would write her way in her absence so she could do other things. Why didn't it work? 

Winsner left AMC in 1987 and returned as an Associate HW  from 1989 to 1992. He left AMC once Megan McTavish was named HW in 1992. 

 

Wisner has said Megan was nasty and did not want to work with her. McTavish was not in Wisner's league as a writer.

Edited September 17, 20232 yr by JoeCool

24 minutes ago, Donna L. Bridges said:

Why did she leave? Who was HW in her absence? When was she the consultant to the writing on all the ABC soaps? She had a plan at one point that Wisner Washam would write her way in her absence so she could do other things. Why didn't it work? 

Lorraine was Agnes' protege as well. She started as a breakdown writer for Agnes in 1979. In 1982 Lorraine and Wisner were co-HW for AMC until 1986. Wisner left in 1987. Lorraine was sole HW then th1 1988 strike and ABC then got involved and Lorraine was demoted to Associate HW. Margaret Depriest was hired as HW then Agnes came back in Nov 1989. WIsner returned as Associate HW with Lorraine as Associate HW.

 

What happened during this time, AMC lost its focus on what it did best love stories and family relationships. Agnes never really should have left at all. Because of ABCs decision not to move AMC and place Loving at 1:30PM, Agnes really got tired and then ABC asked in the mid 80s to save Loving and OLTL. 

1 hour ago, j swift said:

Just for my own peace of mind, it bears repeating that weekly changes in ratings are 95% more likely due to chance than any singular variable.

The speculation and nostalgia is fun, but it lacks logical coherence with basic statistical principles. 

Do you ever get tired of talking down to other posters and embellishing posts with the S.A. T. words?

And before the word vitriol is tossed around, I'm not the only one asking.

 

 

1 hour ago, j swift said:

Just for my own peace of mind, it bears repeating that weekly changes in ratings are 95% more likely due to chance than any singular variable.

The speculation and nostalgia is fun, but it lacks logical coherence with basic statistical principles. 

For the record, my mind was already at peace with this info, so as much as I understand where you're coming from, it did come off a little...patronizing. We generally are looking at trends, and the trend IS downward at this point. There was an earlier post about increase in VCR usage around this time, which I think explains a lot of the downturn in daily viewership (obviously among other factors).

I think if we can't have a little fun with tying the numbers to the creative processes of the shows, then what are we even doing in this thread?

2 hours ago, JoeCool said:

Agnes has said she was exhausted. She intially left AMC as HW in 1982. Winser Washam became HW. Winser was Agnes' protege.  Agnes retunred a writer for brief stints in the early 1980s. Winser was gone in the late 1980s. Lorraine Broderick and Winser were co head writers in 1986 to 1987. In mid 1987 to Nov. 1989, Lorraine was sole HW. Agnes returned as a writer in 1988 and then took over as HW in 1989. 

Agnes was busy with Loving and OLTL during this time. Winser was gone in 1987 so that really explains AMC's descent. Lorraine did not get into her groove and master AMC's tone until 1989.

It did not work simply it was not Agnes and/or Winser. They knew AMC.

Winsner left AMC in 1987 and returned as an Associate HW  from 1989 to 1992. He left AMC once Megan McTavish was named HW in 1992. 

Wisner has said Megan was nasty and did not want to work with her. McTavish was not in Wisner's league as a writer.

Thank you. I wondered if McT played a part in this. And, I can't mention Wisner Washam without tipping my hat to him over "substituting our experienced writing judgment for the opinions of 12 housewives from Nebraska."

3 hours ago, JoeCool said:

Lorraine was Agnes' protege as well. She started as a breakdown writer for Agnes in 1979. In 1982 Lorraine and Wisner were co-HW for AMC until 1986. Wisner left in 1987. Lorraine was sole HW then th1 1988 strike and ABC then got involved and Lorraine was demoted to Associate HW. Margaret Depriest was hired as HW then Agnes came back in Nov 1989. WIsner returned as Associate HW with Lorraine as Associate HW.

 

What happened during this time, AMC lost its focus on what it did best love stories and family relationships. Agnes never really should have left at all. Because of ABCs decision not to move AMC and place Loving at 1:30PM, Agnes really got tired and then ABC asked in the mid 80s to save Loving and OLTL. 

Yes, I knew that she had the 2 protegès: LB & WW. Thanks for the history/chronological sense. 

4 hours ago, JoeCool said:

Lorraine was Agnes' protege as well. She started as a breakdown writer for Agnes in 1979. In 1982 Lorraine and Wisner were co-HW for AMC until 1986. Wisner left in 1987. Lorraine was sole HW then th1 1988 strike and ABC then got involved and Lorraine was demoted to Associate HW. Margaret Depriest was hired as HW then Agnes came back in Nov 1989. WIsner returned as Associate HW with Lorraine as Associate HW.

 

What happened during this time, AMC lost its focus on what it did best love stories and family relationships. Agnes never really should have left at all. Because of ABCs decision not to move AMC and place Loving at 1:30PM, Agnes really got tired and then ABC asked in the mid 80s to save Loving and OLTL. 

I don't believe that Agnes had anything to do with OLTL in the mid 80's. Agnes working with Paul Rauch? Nah. Never happened.

ABC did ask Agnes for help with OLTL in 1983 when Jean Arley was hired as producer.  After nearly 2 years, Arley was canned and Rauch was brought on. Agnes  had disdain for Rauch on his brusque style but could do nothing about him because ABC wanted him.

I never said Agnes worked with Paul Rauch. Agnes in interviews avoided talking about Rauch. When Rauch fired Ellen Holly, Agnes Nixon offered Holly a part continuing on Loving but Holly refused. Agnes then focus on Loving in the mid 1980s.

15 hours ago, beebs said:

For the record, my mind was already at peace with this info, so as much as I understand where you're coming from, it did come off a little...patronizing. We generally are looking at trends, and the trend IS downward at this point. There was an earlier post about increase in VCR usage around this time, which I think explains a lot of the downturn in daily viewership (obviously among other factors).

I think if we can't have a little fun with tying the numbers to the creative processes of the shows, then what are we even doing in this thread?

There always have been & always will be people who will "prove" mathematically or statistically that thus-and-so is true, is an empirical imperative, etc. One of my oldest & best friends online proved back in the 90s statistically that the broadcast network structure would continue to decline until it failed completely, speaking of both primetime & daytime. And I always said that of course that was true unless something happened to change that, like soaps reinventing themselves, or like some tech marvel that created economy where expense had been previously, etc. And, to me, that is why we talk about what is going on when & try to examine results. Meanwhile they are very happy with their charts & graphs, so there's no reason for our chatter to bother them.