What are the "Mary Sue/Gary Stu" characters of the soaps?

[Khan]

AMC: Mary (Sue) Kennicott Martin. If she hasn't been mentioned already.

[Cheap21]

Almost all the popular females from the 90s that started off good ended up being turned into bitches/villians at some point. Sami, Marlena, Hope, Billie, Kate, Kristen, Lexie, etc.... These two were like the only ones that didnt go down a dark path and the writers didnt write an ugly side to

[All My Shadows]

Erica Kane was never a Mary Sue. Let's get that straight first and foremost.

Is that really a fair assumption, though? I feel like Mary Sue status is something that becomes noticeable only through long-term, daily viewing. Storyline summaries don't really do it justice.

[yr9190]

A few from Passions

Charity (well, more from 1999-late 2003) Whitney at times, Jessica (When the first 2 played her) Grace, Pilar, Most of the men during the shows first few years (except the Cranes of course)

[Skin]

I'll disagree, especially towards the end of AMC. I don't care that I am in the minority on this one though it seems that Erica's diva-esque attitude renders her somehow impervious to this moniker. Her bitchiness doesn't fool me though, I would still contend that at the very least the way people reacted to her was very Sueish if nothing else. There is no other explanation for the complete and utter adoration that befell people in her sphere once they took one glance at her.

[All My Shadows]

I don't know if you understand what a Mary Sue is, though. A Mary Sue is a character who everyone fawns over because they view this character as perfect/innocent/without flaw. When Mary Sue does something bad, he/she isn't scolded for it nor is he/she forced to take the blame for it. The fault is heaped other people, especially the people that dare to dislike Mary Sue. This was never Erica. People tolerated her bitchy behavior because they loved her -- her mother, he best friend, her daughters (most of the time), those men who were always enchanted by her. There were tons of people throughout the years on AMC who openly disliked Erica or thought she was full of sh!t, but they weren't damaged or villified for it (prime example being Ms. Brooke Allison English). Their reasons for disliking Erica were validated by the show and oftentimes confirmed. It was never a situation where Brooke was portrayed as jealous or desperate because she didn't like Erica.

[ellabelle]

Ditto All My Shadows. A Mary Sue is the goody two shoes, the perfect one, the "good girl" who can do no wrong. From the beginning, Erica was "the bad girl." She has NEVER been a Mary Sue.

[DeeeDee]

Sharon & Liv weren't Mary Sue's.

Leslie & Cricket were ultimate Mary Sue's.

[Khan]

Meh, probably not.

Seriously, peeps, all you need to do is look at how (Les)Bianca was regarded on that show and then you KNOW Erica wasn't a Mary Sue.

[Skin]

There are various versions of the Mary Sue character. Look no further then here for a list of all the different ones:

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySue

Take a look at Jerk Sue, Black Hole Sue and Sympathetic Sue, all of these sound like different aspects of Erica's personality. A Mary Sue doesn't have to be innocent or good in order to be a Sue-like character. I think some are getting too caught up on temperament of a character and not seeing the general effect that a Mary Sue character has on a story/show/narrative. Erica's effect on story is rather Sue-like especially in AMC's final years.

That's one situation, but even then Erica was always the one that got the last word in all their encounters. Erica was always held in higher status then Brooke even if Brooke was the one who had more values and morals. It was always Erica the one insulting Brooke and Brooke over the years stopped fighting with her and just took it. Even Erica's biggest nemesis started tolerating Erica's mean girl jabs and towards the end of the series almost never put Erica in her place. The same was done with Maria another one of her rivals. Maria was forced to forgive and pity Erica for stealing her child and sympathized with the fact that Erica did evil things because the show wanted to make us feel bad for Erica. You couldn't even be upset with her for keeping Maddie because Bianca was off killing herself during the same time period.

It's the same way with characters like Annie, Kendell, Greenlee, Babe, Krystal, David, Zach, and others over the years. All their interactions with Erica ended with Erica wiping her feet with them and with one of her stinging zingers as a send off when she wanted to 'dismiss' them.

Erica was always the one who got whatever she wanted and Erica was always the one who succeeded time after time. My point is that it became unbelievable and the way people reacted to her became unbelievable to the point of complete parody. She's the ultimate example of the world bending in on itself to support her in whatever she wanted.

[miche]

So basically every character is a Mary Sue?

[Skin]

I would say most stereotypical heroines are, probably because writers don't know how to write them well enough to stop it. Villains and anti-heroes usually aren't very Sue like because they function as antagonists or broken heroes who have flaws and are shunned by society. But if nothing challenges them consistently then yes they could become Sue's as you get more characters who excuse their actions -- Take Jason and Sonny on GH. That show has gotten to the point where no one recognizes that these men kill people for a living and they are considered valued characters and citizens and it's everyone else who is wrong. Any character a writer falls in love with could be come a Sue incarnation because it becomes solely about making that character the best thing ever on the show and not enough about balancing the character in a human way. Once Erica became an ideal or an icon for female empowerment she became a Sue, because no one could challenge her or knock her down to size. She became the female equivalent to Victor Newman on Y&R.

[Darn]

I disagree that Erica is a classic Mary Sue but this sure sounds like her lol.

Erica was only endearing to some of the people some of the time. She was regularly bad mouthed. But a lot of the people who regaled her only knew of her, they didn't really know her.

[dragonflies]

Did anyone mention Rex on OLTL? He's so a Mary Sue

Wow you just summed up this being Greenlee, Babe & Ryan perfectly!!

[Skin]

I think Erica's flaws were meant to be endearing to the viewers who watched her. Her selfishness and general self-absorbed nature inspired a catch phrase that linked itself to comedy -- Oh, Erica!-- I think it's obvious that we aren't really supposed to view her as a bad deplorable figure. She was almost never portrayed as completely unlikable and evil. It was clear that she was meant to be more along the lines of a lovable, sexy, Lucille Ball then she was a truly vile villain especially as the decades turned by and in the last decade of AMC.