I think the biggest mistake in bringing back the vets to GH was that they were totally unrecognizable. Rick Webber was made into a murderer. Holly Scorpio was a bioterrorist tart. Robert, Anna and Felicia were deadbeat parents. Suddenly, Scotty was obsessed with Laura and didn't remember Dominique. And I kept scratching my head when I saw this FauxBrenda on my screen. Fans HATED the vet returns because they were so unrecognizable. Guza is simply a hack.

I think if GW would bring back the big vets, repaired the damage, and wrote them in character, ratings would go up.

On another note, I'm thrilled for OLTL. They continue to kick butt in the ratings!

See I don't agree and it doesn't matter how good the writing is. You can only play that "bring back that vet to a big story" so many times or back from the dead. Dixie is a perfect example. Popular actress, character, very popular pairing for AMC and to what? Its been done before and even with decent writing. I can't say the writing now is bad I just find the story very been there done that. I know as a GH fan for years I don't care about Robert, Anna, Felicia, Holly anymore like I would have been excited years back.. I know I won't tune in specifically if Vanessa comes back and Genie, maybe but she might be the only one. They have no surprises or shocking returns to play up anymore that hasn't been done before aside from back from the dead and honestly AJ and maybe to a lessor degree Emily but then the Cassadines are gone and AJ was never really a huge fan favorite. Alan but then I don't see them bringing a 70 year old character back from the dead.

Also noticed it increased it season average up to a 2.0, I don't care who has a problem with this statement but OLTL should NOT have been canceled.

+1

The thing is OLTL was rising before Roger's return.

It's interesting how that fact is being totally ignored by some. Whatever. The proof is in the ratings. Good for OLTL.

The thing is I would look at this as a business person. Fan OUTCRY/UPSETNESS does not uncancel a show or ever do merit. NUMBERS DO NOT LIE, and If I were a business person examining ratings, I would start to wonder if I made a mistake here. We have to look at this from a business standpoint here an executive you don't cancel a show with rising numbers to this extent. Honestly from a business standpoint cancelling OLTL was a mistake, it also killed any chance of there Chew succeeding. If ABC had been smart they would have cancelled AMC only and waited a bit. Instead they comitted suicide by killing two shows at once in a disguting vile way. If I would have been ABC I would have cancelled AMC only and waited a bit. First also to see how the Chew was doing and I don't think fans would have been as angry or mad. We all knew AMC was on its last legs out the door. It would have been sad but I would have understood but the complete disregard to and disrespect Brian Frons showed us was boardline DIGUSTING/WRONG on ever level.

Your right. It would have ben safer to only cancel AMC first and then maybe waited a year to give Chew a good start and if that went well then cancel OLTL to get the rev in. ABC should have done a 3 year plan. Becasue GH is done for next year too.

I want to say I think its great that OLTL is getting a resurge and that there is some stability with Y&R and B&B but peolpe look at the demos. I will never understand this idea that these shows are doing that great when the demos, which is what the advertisers look at, are still atrocious even for Y&R.

Even in primetime shows like Without a Trace and Cold Case were regularly getting 10-12 million viewers but their demos dropped so the shows were cancelled. Is it fair? no but its business.

Does anyone ever ask themselves why younger women, new younger viewers are not tuning into these soaps? Is it the timeslot, the content, the fact that the writing for the women stink in a genre that is primarily viewed by women?

I agree with you, but given the increasingly poor performance of CBS' drama slate, and some of the shows they thought were going to be much bigger than they've turned out to be, I wonder if CBS has any regrets over that.

As for these ratings, I am surprised OLTL managed another big gain - I thought they'd level off. Kudos to them.

The thing is OLTL was rising before Roger's return. The Bully storyline was pulling in good solid numbers for OLTL and Gigi's death. So u can't make that case it was all Roger. OLTL set in motion back in April 2011 after cancellation. Everyone balked at the big increases as I did but show has consistently beaten in viewers GH which has a far more expensive cast. U all keep saying this and it fails with the numbers consistently going up and up. After awhile u need to start to notice. OLTL should not have been cancelled PERIOD. GL was a dying dog, AW was going down tubes, ATWT had life in it but had waned but OLTL is going out with a HUGE VENGENCE/BANG.

Looking long-term OLTL started an upswing last October when it spiked out of the cellar and began beating AMC consistently. It beat AMC and GH the last week in October and hovered very close to GH for weeks, beating it again two more times over the winter.

February sweep OLTL averaged 2.6 million viewers but March was weak month following to 2.4 million. The bullying story in April spiked viewership back to 2.6 million viewers.

OLTL lost viewers in May and June with RH stalking around and interacting with dayplayers no one cared about. It was July when the story finally started to heat up that OLTl spiked up to 2.67 million viewers.

Where can the rest of us view these ratings?

Unfortunately, I only have one week of these ratings available (which doesn't include the women 18-49 demos), those for the week of March 7-11, 2011:

Total Viewers (Full Daytime)

1. The Price is Right 2 (CBS) 5,418,000

2. The Young and the Restless (CBS) 4,825,000

3. The Price is Right 1 (CBS) 4,443,000

4. The View (ABC) 3,378,000

5. The Bold and the Beautiful (CBS) 2,811,000

6. Let's Make a Deal 2 (CBS) 2,698,000

7. General Hospital (ABC) 2,687,000

8. Days of our Lives (NBC) 2,488,000

9. Let's Make a Deal 1 (CBS) 2,452,000

10. One Life to Live (ABC) 2,355,000

11. All My Children (ABC) 2,318,000

12. The Talk (CBS) 2,111,000

Households/share (Full Daytime)

1. The Price is Right 2 (CBS) 3.7/13

2. The Young and the Restless (CBS) 3.5/12

3. The Price is Right 1 (CBS) 3.4/11

4. The View (ABC) 2.6/9

5. The Bold and the Beautiful (CBS) 2.0/7

-- General Hospital (ABC) 2.0/6

7. Let's Make a Deal 2 (CBS) 1.9/5

8. All My Children (ABC) 1.8/6

-- Days of our Lives (NBC) 1.8/6

-- One Life to Live (ABC) 1.8/6

11. Let's Make a Deal 1 (CBS) 1.7/5

12. The Talk (CBS) 1.6/5

These ratings were taken from golden-road.net, who got them from SON (and gave proper credit to this site). The poster did provide a link back to SON, but that link is no longer working.

I wish that there was more than just one week to go by, but Toups has chosen not to post the ratings for all network daytime shows (as is certainly his prerogative).

Max....once again, the household ratings and total viewers don't mean a thing. All that means anything is the women 18-49 numbers (and to a lesser extent, women 18-34). In both those areas, OLTL beat TPIR and LMAD handily always, and even The View lately.

Carolyn, I highly doubt that total viewership means nothing, although I do concede that it is less important than the demos. However, what you are failing to acknowledge is that lower demos (as well as lower household ratings) can be tolerated with shows that are much less costly to produce than soaps. Thus, that is why it was a slam dunk decision for ABC to cancel OLTL while keeping The View.

The thing is I would look at this as a business person. Fan OUTCRY/UPSETNESS does not uncancel a show or ever do merit. NUMBERS DO NOT LIE, and If I were a business person examining ratings, I would start to wonder if I made a mistake here. We have to look at this from a business standpoint here an executive you don't cancel a show with rising numbers to this extent. Honestly from a business standpoint cancelling OLTL was a mistake, it also killed any chance of there Chew succeeding. If ABC had been smart they would have cancelled AMC only and waited a bit. Instead they comitted suicide by killing two shows at once in a disguting vile way. If I would have been ABC I would have cancelled AMC only and waited a bit. First also to see how the Chew was doing and I don't think fans would have been as angry or mad. We all knew AMC was on its last legs out the door. It would have been sad but I would have understood but the complete disregard to and disrespect Brian Frons showed us was boardline DIGUSTING/WRONG on ever level.

Although I agree that fan outcry should not uncancel a show, you are underestimating just how important fan outrage can be in regards to possible damage to ABC's future daytime lineup. (I believe that a huge reason why ABC agreed to license AMC & OLTL to PP was because the fan outrage threatened to derail the sucess of Chew and Revolution.) And any objective person would have to concede that the lion's share of the outrage is due to the cancellation of AMC (because AMC is Susan Lucci's soap and has this completely overrated reputation of being such a "national treasure.") If you ask 100 non-soap viewers which soap--AMC or OLTL--is currently doing better in the ratings (or which soap is the "better" soap quality wise), at least 98 of them will say AMC. (In fact, I'd be shocked if more than seven people out of the one-hundred ever even heard of OLTL.) Hence, if ABC was going to cancel just one soap, they would have cancelled OLTL. (If you don't think that this could have happened, look at NBC, which cancelled AW before SuBe, despite the fact that it outpaced SuBe in viewership by a far greater margin than OLTL is currently besting AMC.)

Edited August 12, 201114 yr by Max

Thanks Max

You're very welcome.

Carolyn, I highly doubt that total viewership means nothing, although I do concede that it is less important than the demos. However, what you are failing to acknowledge is that lower demos (as well as lower household ratings) can be tolerated with shows that are much less costly to produce than soaps. Thus, that is why it was a slam dunk decision for ABC to cancel OLTL while keeping The View.

Lol. First of all, Max, total viewership DOES mean nothing. ABSOLUTELY nothing. Advertisers don't give a whit how many people watch a certain show, and neither do networks, because they don't make money on viewers. They ONLY make money on who those viewers are. (This goes as far back as the late 60's, when CBS purged a ton of their top shows all at once because they only appealed to older, rural viewers....read your history).

Second, I never said a word about whether ABC was right to cancel OLTL, or not. All I said was that total viewers mean nothing.

And they still don't.

ETA: One more thing....you really overestimate corporate America's interest in public opinion. If ABC had waited until this moment to cancel just one show, it would have been AMC, Susan Lucci or not. ABC couldn't give two shits about whether or not one show was better-known or considered a "national treasure" (lol) or not. They only care about what every other corporation cares about: money. And AMC is making less for them right now.

That said, these are all moot points, because ABC basically canned their entire line-up. They're just waiting until April to drop the bomb on GH.

Edited August 12, 201114 yr by Carolyn1980

Lol. First of all, Max, total viewership DOES mean nothing. ABSOLUTELY nothing. Advertisers don't give a whit how many people watch a certain show, and neither do networks, because they don't make money on viewers.

Ad rates are set based on demo performance during 3 sweep months. If a show fails to maintain close enough to their sweeps performance, advertisers can and will request adjustments. ABC had to pay back some money for GH 2 years ago and were not happy.

So yes maintaining demo performance is THE most important $$$ factor to the networks.

However, I do agree all this ratings debate is a MOOT point because ABC wants out of soaps. GH has already lost its slot as of Sept 2012, and thus effectively canceled too.

As for PP's versions of AMC and OLTL, it totally depends on what their business model is, web only or web/cable or ???

Although I agree that fan outcry should not uncancel a show, you are underestimating just how important fan outrage can be in regards to possible damage to ABC's future daytime lineup. (I believe that a huge reason why ABC agreed to license AMC & OLTL to PP was because the fan outrage threatened to derail the sucess of Chew and Revolution.)

And any objective person would have to concede that the lion's share of the outrage is due to the cancellation of AMC (because AMC is Susan Lucci's soap and has this completely overrated reputation of being such a "national treasure.") If you ask 100 non-soap viewers which soap--AMC or OLTL--is currently doing better in the ratings (or which soap is the "better" soap quality wise), at least 98 of them will say AMC. (In fact, I'd be shocked if more than seven people out of the one-hundred ever even heard of OLTL.) Hence, if ABC was going to cancel just one soap, they would have cancelled OLTL. (If you don't think that this could have happened, look at NBC, which cancelled AW before SuBe, despite the fact that it outpaced SuBe in viewership by a far greater margin than OLTL is currently besting AMC.)

I think Prospect Park was in the works for awhile (Frons old cronys) and I think it "also" has to do with the government granting money for this ....so they are just a (quasi/pseudo) - Disney/ABC spin-off without coming right out and saying it...even the name suggests it...

...Burton says they have deep pockets.

Edited August 12, 201114 yr by Cyberologist

I think Prospect Park was in the works for awhile (Frons old cronys) and I think it "also" has to do with the government granting money for this ....so they are just a (quasi/pseudo) - Disney/ABC spin-off without coming right out and saying it...even the name suggests it...

...Burton says they have deep pockets.

I agree with you that the PP deal has been going on for a lot longer than the 2 months between cancellation and the online announcement. And I think GH's part in this being last was intentional.I think someone feels they have the greatest chance for success therefore they won't be the sacrificial lamb so to speak,

On a side note I honestly am perplexed at the fact ABC had to give Ad money back based on GH's lackluster performances 2-3 years ago yet the regime that drove the show to that state remained in power and still does to a great extent. Mind boggling

See I don't agree and it doesn't matter how good the writing is. You can only play that "bring back that vet to a big story" so many times or back from the dead. Dixie is a perfect example. Popular actress, character, very popular pairing for AMC and to what? Its been done before and even with decent writing. I can't say the writing now is bad I just find the story very been there done that. I know as a GH fan for years I don't care about Robert, Anna, Felicia, Holly anymore like I would have been excited years back.. I know I won't tune in specifically if Vanessa comes back and Genie, maybe but she might be the only one. They have no surprises or shocking returns to play up anymore that hasn't been done before aside from back from the dead and honestly AJ and maybe to a lessor degree Emily but then the Cassadines are gone and AJ was never really a huge fan favorite. Alan but then I don't see them bringing a 70 year old character back from the dead.

I guess I disagree. Ratings did go up when they brought back the vets (minus Brenda). Robert & Holly's return garnered a 3.3 in February of 2006 and it went right back down after they left. But each return after that brought in less and less numbers because the long time fans (who were fans of these characters) didn't want to watch the hatchet job. I know I tuned out. So, why not repair the damage? Why not go back and bring back these vets and fix them? Garin seems to be interested in true GH history unlike Guza. I'm not saying GH will go up to 1st place or should ignore the Sonny, Jason and Carly fans but I think trying to repair the damage will go a long way in bringing back some fans. Face it, GH needs all the fans it can get at this point. I don't see how it can hurt.

OLTL could have acheived higher ratings if we weren't forced to sit through Nate (can't act) and Destiny (can't act) and Sean (can't act) scenes...horrible. and who cares. This is what's wrong with OLTL...so many newbies are are just awful. Frank and Ron's downfall is that they love being surrounded by hot dudes and so do i but they have to act AND get nekkid on my screen..then I want to tune in/turn on every freakin' day!