OLTL Tribute Thread

[Khan]

I agree.  I, too, have no doubt that Ellen Holly was treated badly at OLTL - and not just by Paul Rauch either.  Her book alludes to many incidents where she and Lillian Hayman were treated like second-class citizens by TPTB.  When you live with that level of mistreatment for that long, you're bound to look twice at every word or gesture.  So, again, I don't think she was lying.  I just think she didn't hear or read what ES said next.

It's an issue worth bringing up, but it's probably not the right time to do it.

[Mona Kane Croft]

I was watching during the time of Holly's on screen exit from OLTL, but my memory is very foggy.  Here is what I remember.  Can someone please correct anything I remember incorrectly, because I'm sure some of my details are wrong??

As I recall - Carla was away for a lengthy period, and when she returned she was suddenly an attorney, which surprised me because I don't believe the character had shown any interest in the law previous to her hiatus.  Making her a lawyer seemed to me a sad attempt by TPTB to give the character something to do, since they appeared uninterested in writing anything regarding her personal life or romance. At that point, Carla sort of assumed the role of "town lawyer" dispensing legal advice when someone needed it, but without much else to do.  As her exit approached, I believe Carla was involved in someone's murder trial -- either as one of the attorneys or the judge.  Then in a very awkward turn, Carla decided to leave town right in the middle of the trial.  So her role in the trial had to be replaced by another character.  This was very strange in my opinion, and I recall thinking they could have easily waited a few weeks and kept the character until the end of the trial.  I do not remember any good-bye scenes for Carla, but I have recently found one or two on YouTube, so at least the character did get to say good-bye in a few scenes.  Those are the foggy details my memory brings up regarding Carla's on screen exit.  Can someone with a better memory please tell me if most of my recollections are correct?   And what have I left out or gotten wrong?  

Also, didn't Carla's exit take place around the same time as the big storyline with the group of teens (including Jon Hensley) who were somehow involved with Ivan Kipling at a mysterious cabin in the woods?  And wasn't this entire storyline (including some of the teen characters) completely dropped mid-plot and never mentioned again?

Edited December 13, 2023 by Mona Kane Croft

[danfling]

Ellen Holly departed from the show during the early 1980s.   Her character had been an actress who later changed careers to a medical secretary ( to good friend Dr. Craig).  The character had always been interested in civil rights and events, so the news that she had graduated from law school and become a lawyer was not that much of a suprise to me.

Ms. Holly had also been an uncredited writer on the show.   When she returned, she had written a storyline which would have included a murder, and her character would have been involved in the story.   The show accepted the story proposal.   According to Ms. Holly's autobiography, the printed proposal was probably placed in someone's drawer and never really considered.

Ms. Holly initially was given a story.  Her character had a romance with football player Alec Lownes, played by the late Roger Hill.    (The two of them, I understand, also were a couple in real life.)   This, and her past marriage to Ed Hall resulted in the show's portrayal of Carla as a woman who was in the middle of a struggle as to which of the two she loved.   In addition, the new character of Courtney Wright (Phylicia Ayers Allen) was attacted to Ed (who was also attracted to her.    And, Sadie was certainly hoping that Ed and Carla could get back together.

Alec was a player for the Llanview Cougers, a professional team owned by Asa Buchanan.  (I had assumed that retired professional football player Tom Cudahy, on All My Children, had also played for that team, but I am have learned that this was never said.)  Mario van Peebles played Doc Gilmore, a fellow player on Roger's football team.   (Mr. van Peebles later appeared on All My Children.)

Alec also began a nightclub, a part of the story that I had forgotten about until YouTube refreshed my memory.  So, many of the scenes in which Carla appeared were in that nightclub.

After the storyline with Alec Lownes ended, the show brought back the son of Carla and Ed, who had become a doctor (Dr. Josh Hall).  

The character of Courtney was dropped when Ms. Allen was cast in the primetime Cosby show on NBC.   The conclusion of her storyline (what little there was) seemed very rushed and was shown only days before the premiere of the Cosby program.

So, with Alec and Courtney gone, most of Carla's scenes were with Al Freeman, Jr. (Ed) except, of course, when she was shown practicing law.

She was the attorney in the murder case you mentioned.   I think that it was when Clint was accused of killing Dr. Marcus Polk, but I get some of the murders confused.

Ms. Holly learned from Paul Rauch that her contract was not going to be renewed, and she wrote in her autobiograpy that she then experienced a not-typical-for-her drinking benge.   She missed a taping of an episode of the show due to this, and her lines were given to Louise Sorrell, who also played an attorney on the show (Judith Sanders).

Ms. Holly did return to the courtroom trial.   She called Victoria "Victoria Riley" rather than "Victoria Buchanan."   Although this could have been due to a bad memory, I tended to think that this was an intentional way to remind viewers and the show' producer that Carla had a long relationship with Victoria and the other characters.

Before the murder storyline and the news of her dismissal, Paul Rauch had ordered Ms. Holly to do two things:  to take voice lessons and to shorten her hair.    Ms. Holly wrote that she had always in her career been complimented on her speaking voice, so it was insulting that Mr. Rauch would suggest that she needed outside help with this.      I will say, though, that her shorter hair was very becoming and made Carla look more like a typical lawyer that she had previously.

This is my own opinion, and it is speculative.   Don't consider it as known fact:   I think that the show's writing staff had originally intended much of the Sanders family's storyline to be given to Carla and Ed.  That was before her dismissal from Paul Raunch.

Carla was given a send-off, but I am not sure if the chronology that Ms. Holly wrote about in her autobiography was correct.

What I remember is that Carla and Sadie were sitting in a restaurant.   Carla announced to Sadie that she had been offered a judgeship in (I think) Arizona and that she was accepting this offer.   She asked Sadie to travel west with her.   I cannot remember if Sadie initially agreed to leave Llanview or not, but they rose from the table and were walking out of the restaurant.   She passed by a table where Dr. Dorian Lord Callison was sitting.  (Actress Robin Strasser, incidentally, had African-American relatives and may have been one of the friendliest members of the show's cast to the minority performers) spoke to Carla.   Ms. Holly said "Goodbye, Dorian."   (another reminder that Carla's history with the show was so lengthy and important).

However, I have seen the scene that is on YouTube.   I missed that scene back in the 1980s.

I think that the writers had been leading up to that Dr. Josh Hall would be the person behind the dope ring that was using the women prisoners at Statesville Prison.    He would have had the association with Warden Perkins (father of Allison).  This part of the story was eventually given to Jamie Sanders, who was a medical student.

As I recall, eventually Jamie took his mother as a hostage or a captive.    I think that Josh would have taken Carla in the same way.

The grandmother, Sadie, would have played a role in this story.   Instead, Elizabeth Sanders was introduced.   She was sympathetic to Jamie and shown to be evil.    Sadie would not have been portrayed as a criminal or as siding with her grandson.

With Lois Kibbe on the show playing Elizabeth, comedic scenes were more natural.   I especially remember the scenes with Elizabeth and Tina.

 

 

Both Josh Hall and Jamie Sanders had fathers with some influence (Ed, in addition to being in the police department, was also a former candidate for Lt. Govenor - as Herb Callison's running mate).   Both Josh and Jamie had attorneys as mothers.

[chrisml]

I have never found soap actors to be accurate when it comes to their storylines or the chronology of events. They do so much within a year that I imagine it would be almost impossible to keep the timelines and stories straight. They often have a skewed view of how the show played to the audience. As much as I adore Erika Slezak, her opinions of the various producers did not always match what I thought about the show. Example: She's extremely critical and dismissive of Linda Gottlieb while praising JFP. As a viewer, I found most of Gottlieb's work to be first rate while I think JFP hurt the show except for giving the underrated Catherine Hickland more to do.

[danfling]

Miss Godlieb was one of the best soap opera producers, in my opinion.

I also give credit to the writing of the two headwriters at the time.

[TEdgeofNight]

I was not referring to Ellen's book. I was referring to Jeff Giles' book in which Ellen was quoted as saying that at OLTL's 15th Anniversary party in July 1983, Erika Slezak said to Agnes Nixon to get those 2 black (swear word redacted) out of my face, referring to Ellen and Lillian Hayman.

In Jeff Giles' book, Erika claims that never happened. I believe Erika. That is what I was referring to when I said that I think Ellen lied. Anyone who knows Erika would never believe that she would say such a thing and it was vehemently denied by Erika in many pargraphs. 

And as an aside, Ellen said that overnight after that party, Jean Arley was gone and Paul Rauch was in. Wrong! Paul Rauch didn't arrive until a year later. 

RIP Ellen Holly but don't tell lies about my Erika Slezak! 

[JoeCool]

I know about that alleged incident. Someone can deny anything vehemently and it still can be true. Both Lillian Hayman and Ellen Holly allegedly heard the comment. Hayman and Holly refused to attend the 20th and 25th party after numerous directors network people and even Agnes Nixon’s calls. They both refused. I wonder why.  Does anyone see Slezak saying anything about Ellen’s death? She did for Andrea Evans. When Hayman died only Ellen showed up at the funeral. No one attended from ABC or the show.  Not a card or a basket or flowers. No one said anything publicly . Not Agnes. Not Slezak. I wonder why. Ellen was very close to Lillian and gave the eulogy.

Ellen Holly and Lillian Hayman were wonderful human beings and actresses. RIP Ellen and Lillian.

No one knows the truth. It does not really matter anymore.

Edited December 13, 2023 by JoeCool

[Vee]

Holly said why she didn't attend in her book.

It's been a couple days.

Not verifiable. But regardless, this is all just another attempt by one blocked troll (not JoeCool) to stir up drama by grabbing at any hot button topic or controversial actor they can. They go from thread to thread hoping people will bite. They're also misquoting Jeff Giles' book; Erika has only addressed the claim re: her quote in the soap mags in the '80s about the show no longer having 'have-nots', and she did so in her fan newsletter, not Llanview in the Afternoon.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Vee

[JoeCool]

Thanks. I won’t bite. As to the verifiably of what I said, let’s just say I have heard it from people who were around in 1994 and connected to Holly and Hayman. There was not a lot goodwill or condolences sent. And that is all I can and will say on the matter. I am not discussing what the other commenter wrote. 
 

Thank you @Vee

[Vee]

The scene I remember on YT was talked about in here a while back - it was a pretty melancholy, frankly depressing scene where Ed and Carla were in a restaurant talking about how their renewed romance hadn't really worked out, that they were going through the motions together and that she was taking the judgeship in AZ with Sadie. He wished her well. I do think Dorian was there, IIRC. I don't know if there was one with Sadie too, but it wouldn't surprise me.

I don't know if it was said when Ed left that he had decided to reunite with Carla and join her and Sadie in Arizona. I've heard that before but it's not anything I can verify.

[TEdgeofNight]

In Jeff Giles book Llanview in the Afternoon, Erika Slezak very clearly refutes Ellen Holly's claims about the quote. The book doesn't have page numbers so I can't give you that but yes, absolutely, Erika Slezak comments about the false accusations from Ellen Holly. Vee is wrong.

[John]

Rewatching 2003 OLTL

Why did they cast Bruce Michael Hall as Joey???

 

Re Ellen Holly

RIP

The Erika Slezak stuff in jeff Giles book I buy what ES said

Also Holly tore into Agnes but on her intimate Portrait praised nixon and said she gave me a life

 

Also Ive never read of Lillian Hyman saying ES was racist

Edited December 13, 2023 by John

[chrisml]

I got my kindle version of the book, and it's interesting revisiting the book because Slezak says that Ellen Holly had a right to be mad as they were using her Holly's story/story notes but they were ruining it with the casting. Holly loathed Arthur Burghardt and didn't want to work with him. Slezak agrees with Holly's assessment. Burghardt contends Holly was a nightmare to work with. Holly claims Slezak said the "black B**ches" comment in July 1983 and that overnight Arley was replaced by Rauch. Slezak refutes this accusation. Burghardt says that Holly's racism claims were ridiculous. He says Hayman and Freeman would back him up if they were alive. There is the suggestion that it was less about racism and more about Rauch being an a--hole. They mention Lillian being upset about the firing and then other actors cosign that Rauch was a sadist who liked toying with actors. 

MY takeaway: I think it was racism mixed with Rauch's sadism. I would not be surprised if someone at the network made the comment attributed to Slezak or something similar was said by someone else and Holly blamed it on Slezak. Holly seems particularly angry at Slezak's airtime on the show. 

[John]

The Funny Thing is the center of the show was always Viki going back to 1968

 

Rewatching 2003: I liked River & Matthew Twinning was good. too bad they never reintroduced River after 2004

[Khan]

His abs?  His pecs?  His blonde hair, gorgeous eyes and kissable lips?