Another head writing team out, while Julie remains. WTF???? Frons can't be that dense to see the common factor in AMC's problems.

+1

I've been beating that drum since 2005.

Go Tonja go!!! *high fives her wherever she is*

Everything she said is 100% TRUTH.

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by weareclouds

+1

IMO, if you're going to call anything a "brand" it's not the show itself at all. It's the memorable or stand-out characters. Erica Kane, Luke and Laura, etc. That's what people know. If you'd ask anyone on the street. I'd be they couldn't name another character on the show or tell you one single storyline.

I agree (and thank you quartermainefan!)... the utter lack of soap knowledge of non-soap viewers cannot be underestimated. And what does "brand" even matter to soap fans who are already soap fans? No factual info. on this, but it's my gut belief that most soap fans are so because their parents/grandparents were, and new, uninitiated soap viewers could give a [!@#$%^&*] about "brand" and watch simply based on interest, not because they "should" watch one over the other. And hell, Jaguar is a brand, look how Ford (ha!) eff'd with that. An XJ that looks like a Taurus with a thyroid problem. I'd still like to hear the other side of this argument.

If you'd ask anyone on the street. I'd be they couldn't name another character on the show or tell you one single storyline.

And, in the case of OLTL, they couldn't even tell you that one character/couple/story that "everyone" knows.

Being totally real, I don't know if ABC would cancel OLTL over AMC simply because of AMC's history of higher ratings, higher critical acclaim, and higher popularity, but to say that those things don't exist, that OLTL is just as much in the general public's consciousness as GH and AMC are (however small or minuscule their places in the general public's consciousness may be now) is utterly laughable. It's crazy talk. So we can debate on whether or not ABC would factor that into "The Finallllllll Showdownnnnnnnnnnnnn," but let's not be silly. The simple fact that we are even discussing this proves that there's a huge gap between where GH and AMC are in terms of visibility, even now, and where OLTL is. Tons of non-soap viewers don't even know OLTL exists. I didn't even know OLTL existed until I was 11 years old.

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by All My Shadows

+1

I've been beating that drum since 2005.

Who do you guys think would be a good fit for AMC EP right now, who does AMC need?

Who do you guys think would be a good fit for AMC EP right now, who does AMC need?

Wendy Riche.

And, in the case of OLTL, they couldn't even tell you that one character/couple/story that "everyone" knows.

Being totally real, I don't know if ABC would cancel OLTL over AMC simply because of AMC's history of higher ratings, higher critical acclaim, and higher popularity, but to say that those things don't exist, that OLTL is just as much in the general public's consciousness as GH and AMC are (however small or minuscule their places in the general public's consciousness may be now) is utterly laughable. It's crazy talk. So we can debate on whether or not ABC would factor that into "The Finallllllll Showdownnnnnnnnnnnnn," but let's not be silly. The simple fact that we are even discussing this proves that there's a huge gap between where GH and AMC are in terms of visibility, even now, and where OLTL is. Tons of non-soap viewers don't even know OLTL exists. I didn't even know OLTL existed until I was 11 years old.

I doubt many 11 year olds know anything about soaps operas period. A lot of us who really watched at an early age are out of the "norm". I was glued to The Edge of Night back in the early 70's at the age of 8. None of my friends knew what the heck it was and I dared not tell them that I liked the stories. It doesn't make a case for AMC or GH or any show being a "brand". That brand nonsense was made up by someone at DC and ya'll ran with it.

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by MontyB

And, in the case of OLTL, they couldn't even tell you that one character/couple/story that "everyone" knows.

Being totally real, I don't know if ABC would cancel OLTL over AMC simply because of AMC's history of higher ratings, higher critical acclaim, and higher popularity, but to say that those things don't exist, that OLTL is just as much in the general public's consciousness as GH and AMC are (however small or minuscule their places in the general public's consciousness may be now) is utterly laughable. It's crazy talk. So we can debate on whether or not ABC would factor that into "The Finallllllll Showdownnnnnnnnnnnnn," but let's not be silly. The simple fact that we are even discussing this proves that there's a huge gap between where GH and AMC are in terms of visibility, even now, and where OLTL is. Tons of non-soap viewers don't even know OLTL exists. I didn't even know OLTL existed until I was 11 years old.

The alot of people do not even know OLTL exists comment is absurd. If someone knows that AMC exists, they sure as hell know that OLTL exists, even if they don't watch it.

And I am happy for the AMC fans that their historically well known, critically acclaimed, highly rated (LOL, how times change), and popular show may get another year. Enjoy it.

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by Llantano Incorporated

Law and Order is a brand. You could create a show called Law&Order Kalamazoo and someone people will watch because it is Law&Order. GH has no brand, as we saw with Port Charles. Were its ratings noticeably different than Port Charles/The City?

I doubt many 11 year olds know anything about soaps operas period. A lot of us who really watched at an early age are out of the "norm". I was glued to The Edge of Night back in the early 70's at the age of 8. None of my friends knew what the heck it was and I dared not tell them that I liked the stories. It doesn't make a case for AMC or GH or any show being a "brand". That brand nonsense was made up by someone at DC and ya'll ran with it.

That is true. But for what it's worth, I knew of Ryan's Hope before I knew of OLTL, so...yeah

I don't think "brand" is the right word for it because I think all soaps fit under the "soap brand" (which is bad news regardless of the soap). There is no individual brand for each show anymore. But Google each ABCD soap. Tell me which one has the most results. And which one has the least. Not an iron-clad way of proving a point, but take it for what it's worth.

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by All My Shadows

I don't think "brand" is the right word for it because I think all soaps fit under the "soap brand," there's no individual brand for each show anymore.

Yeah, I can agree with that.

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by MontyB

And, in the case of OLTL, they couldn't even tell you that one character/couple/story that "everyone" knows.

Being totally real, I don't know if ABC would cancel OLTL over AMC simply because of AMC's history of higher ratings, higher critical acclaim, and higher popularity, but to say that those things don't exist, that OLTL is just as much in the general public's consciousness as GH and AMC are (however small or minuscule their places in the general public's consciousness may be now) is utterly laughable. It's crazy talk. So we can debate on whether or not ABC would factor that into "The Finallllllll Showdownnnnnnnnnnnnn," but let's not be silly. The simple fact that we are even discussing this proves that there's a huge gap between where GH and AMC are in terms of visibility, even now, and where OLTL is. Tons of non-soap viewers don't even know OLTL exists. I didn't even know OLTL existed until I was 11 years old.

I'm just trying to understand how much this really matters to these people when they're looking at the $$$ situation in the here and now, i.e., if the past is a strong enough contributing factor when examining the dollars and cents of today. Advertisers are going to do their homework regardless so it's not like ABC can pull wool over their eyes convincing them that AMC's *brand* makes their investment worth it all even if say hypothetically OLTL might show them a greater return. I think this brand notion places too much of a soap fan's sentimentality in the board room. I think money will always be the great motivator whether they make an educated decision based on that, or a short-sided false assumption ("People love AMC more, it has the *potential* to make us more money for the simple fact that it's AMC, Susan Lucci and all that, even if OLTL is saving us more money right here and now").

I'm just trying to understand how much this really matters to these people when they're looking at the $$$ situation in the here and now, i.e., if the past is a strong enough contributing factor when examining the dollars and cents of today. Advertisers are going to do their homework regardless so it's not like ABC can pull wool over their eyes convincing them that AMC's *brand* makes their investment worth it all even if say hypothetically OLTL might show them a greater return. I think this brand notion places too much of a soap fan's sentimentality in the board room. I think money will always be the great motivator whether they make an educated decision based on that, or a short-sided false assumption ("People love AMC more, it has the *potential* to make us more money for the simple fact that it's AMC, Susan Lucci and all that, even if OLTL is saving us more money right here and now").

I absolutely agree. Whatever it's called, there's always been the idea that OLTL could/would go before AMC. Whether or not the people who really call the shots will care is entirely up for debate, and just to show that I'm not all-the-way crazy, I think that when it all boils down, if one soap is getting the ax (and I don't think it'll be just one), it will probably be AMC. If Anne can be apathetic about the shows and they're on her network, then I doubt the advertisers know/care about what soap goes. I'm not knocking them for that, though.

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by All My Shadows

Uh damn Tonja Walker is my heroine, she posted this on Carolyn Hinsey's Facebook Page:

Brion Frons has never been a daytime guy. He is not very emotional, doesn't seem to be a fan of any daytime show, and when I met him he didn't even know I'd ever been on GH...... Hence another Olivia over there...Never saw any of the Alex/Carlo /Asa stuff except when they watered her down to a golddigger, which is the leastof what she ever was... It just seems that some jobs like the head of Daytime, need a guy or gal who loves it. Like Josie Emmerich, Mickey Dwyer Dobbin, Pat Fili, even Dennis Swanson liked the stories... Since Brion has been there , I have never seen much passion for the shows. Maybe I wrong, I want to be. But,( and I know this is bold and dangerous to say but I have a job) he needs to be in something HE loves. I doubt this is it... Nothing personal. It may be Disney crying about numbers. But with Passion being the main force behind any successful venture, the lead executive, must have it, or this is how it will always wind up.Passion preceeds number success. When the wind is out of the sails the ship stops moving. I wish we could put wind in his sails, but I don't think its ever been there.Since he is in Los Angeles, and he knows those peole better, chances are he may take care of that show a bit... But, I wish we had someone who could see that so many of the successful night time shows are soaps, and that the audience is there... BUTsoaps need a small amount of characters in the shows that are all dymanic and individual, and who all do not look exactly alike, or who change constantly. Build a Brothers and Sisters, Build a Modern Family, a Parenthood, a Blood Brothers, even a West Wing like we had with Capital. until of course they moved that show locaton from Wasington D.C. to Saudi Arabia... and the show tanked. Not enough drama in Washington? Highly doubtful... So we will see if this ever changes before its too late... And I will probably never work at ABC again now... But it needed to be said.

This is in stark contrast to the complaints I've heard most about Frons. That he needs to take a step back and allow the creative team to do their jobs while he focuses on the "business" of soaps. That he has his "favorites" that he protects and demands story for. It always sounded very fangurlish to me, and not that he didn't care enough, but more that he cared too much and demanded stories that pleased him instead of the audience.

And the decision to cancel OLTL in advance of AMC sounds very emotional. In what world is it sound business to take the show that's actually operating under budget and would seem to be profitable and funding the other two soaps in favor of one that has been reported to have runaway budget issues and is losing money?

Edited April 3, 201114 yr by rhinohide

And, in the case of OLTL, they couldn't even tell you that one character/couple/story that "everyone" knows.

Well if by "everyone knows" means random Americans who don't watch soaps can say La Lucci is on a soap, maybe they'll know its AMC,

and millions can recall Luke and Laura from GH I will say you have a point. But unless you're a soap fan, no one in America can tell you anything of substance of the current AMC or GH. As for the "brand" argument, from history GH and AMC are more well known brands

than OLTL, but obviously that history isn't helping AMC or GH's ratings, nor should it, as ratings are determined by the current storylines not what once was. And thats what ABC is most concerned with, how a show is doing in the ratings. "brand" may be a factor but its has limits.