Name one other supercouple that had one half of the pairing give his wife a baby cause theirs died.

None. So atleast we know it's not a carbon copy s/l, it's actually unique.

None. So atleast we know it's not a carbon copy s/l, it's actually unique.

its a tweak on an old storyline bc we've seen plenty of wives give their husbands a baby bc their child was dead

its a tweak on an old storyline bc we've seen plenty of wives give their husbands a baby bc their child was dead

Or let a guy think a baby is his when she knows it isn't. For some reason, I feel like I have seen this story many, many times.

But it's nowhere near the worst bb swap s/l arc ever told. This one actually has heart. Unlike...

Or let a guy think a baby is his when she knows it isn't. For some reason, I feel like I have seen this story many, many times.

Of course we have. There are no new baby-based stories in soaps.

Of course we have. There are no new baby-based stories in soaps.

Someone said this and I dont remember who. It might have been Nancy Lee Grahan but that the are only about 10 basic storylines in soaps and the shows are about taking these storlyines and telling them in different ways

Someone said this and I dont remember who. It might have been Nancy Lee Grahan but that the are only about 10 basic storylines in soaps and the shows are about taking these storlyines and telling them in different ways

Exactly. I loathe all this procreation fixation but for me this story is about the performances and so far the performances have me riveted. I feel for these characters and it's been a long time since I've felt deeply for any soap character. The genre has beaten that out of me for the most part so I'm going to take this ride.

Exactly. I loathe all this procreation fixation but for me this story is about the performances and so far the performances have me riveted. I feel for these characters and it's been a long time since I've felt deeply for any soap character. The genre has beaten that out of me for the most part so I'm going to take this ride.

I agree. I feel that way about all soaps. I'm just watching for the characters and actors I like now. I've pretty much accepted that the writing is "dumbed down" and that won't be changing anytime soon.

None. So atleast we know it's not a carbon copy s/l, it's actually unique.

LOL I actually agree. And frankly this is way way way better than some of what, say, Luke did to Laura. Or Hell, Tad did to Dixie (and her to him!).

Done watching clips. Not enough to bring me back. Primarily because the story itself is depressing (and ludicrous), and I still don't care about Jesse.

You're the reason AMC is going to be canceled

It would only be short term if the writers MADE it short term. There is plenty of drama to be had from a marriage under the stress of dealing with a child that died. It's also a realistic story that viewers can relate to played by good actors which is what viewers are ALWAYS whining about.

And any "potential ratings gain" won't be enough to move AMC out of last place so it's all for nothing.

But of course ridiculously absurd, character assassinating stories must be encouraged by fans otherwise how would AMC ever justify it's bottom spot on the ratings?

A grieving story that lasted months would be, frankly, the death knell, if it hasn't been rung already, for AMC. People already complained one reason they left was due to depressing stories. Agnes said that the Ann/Paul child grieving story in the 70s got such harsh fan reaction, and by all reports it was expertly told, that they had to end it quickly. It's NOT what the show should to right now--for creative or commercial reasons (IMHO, I can respect that it is what you wanna watch).

Also knowing how Jesse was in the 80s, and also watching Jacob who IMHO was basically Jesse on Loving, this is not by any stretch of the imagination character assasination or out of character for him. I think it would be if Angie had done it to Jesse though. I think you're grasping here. (And yes stuff like Jesse playing lapdog to Zach WAS much worse than this character wise--this comes from a place most fans recognize)

AMC has the same problems with minorities as OLTL does. Don't act like just because AMC has a minority Black family on contract that somehow they're better when A/J are constantly character assassinated, Frankie & Randi aren't used, Brot sits on the backburner & Shannon Kane had to leave the show to get work.

I can act however I please I do agree with everything you say, and yet, I do think it's significant in the sorry state of daytime and minorities right now, what faith and love and even when they have no story, screentime is given to Angie and Jesse. In many ways they've become the Ruth and Joe of the current generation--which is premature (hence why I love this new story) but... A&J to my mind are NOT character assissanted (certainly much less than most characters) and have become the backbone of the show couple wise. Sure, maybe I'm accepting crumbs when I should be angrily shouting for full meals, but I've given up doing that for soaps, and I enjoy what I'm being fed.

As far as Greg he was treated as all minority characters (especially men) & given ONE terribly underwritten, tertiary story with limited airtime which he was expected to turn into gold then when that didn't happen was made into a criminal accomplice of OLTL's latest villain of the week & promptly let go.

I don't think he was a very compelling actor--I mean I think Sean has less acitng experience and he atleast is more interesting to watch. But again I agree with all you say--but for me Greg was no big loss, and I think to compare what they did to Greg to what they just did to Jesse is, frankly, deluded. You even said that most of your complaint about Jesse and this story is about what you seem to KNOW they'll do to him. Why are you even still watching? That's a stupid thing to say, I know--but I do wonder... If you're so sure it's gonna just bring the minorities down even further and nothign can be done by it, maybe the only thing you can do is turn it off?

And there is nothing "inexplicable" about Todd being on 24/7. Todd had raped & terrorized Llanview repeatedly yet OLTL ALWAYS finds a way to excuse or ignore his actions no matter how deplorable so he can remain on the show.

You give me no credit. That's precisely why I said it was inexplicable--I meant to me, it does seem to make sense in the current state of the show.

Seeing them doesn't matter if they stories they have to play is garbage & it is.

You don't think there's any significance at all to the fact that so many fans are loving and enjoying this story? By current soap standards I think the current scenes have been pure gold.

If ANY couple if AMC's go to couple it's Ryan & Greenlee.

For all the disgusting useless Ryelee pimping we get, they still haven't gone as far to try to instigate them as a couple that people look up to (kendall saying their soul mates, while sickening is not remotely the same thing) or see as mentors of love. And contrary wise if they gave Angie and Jesse a story like Rylee have right now you would be whining all the more.

It's amazing how EVERY story no matter how tasteless or offensive is fervently justified (no matter how offensive) by fans like it's somehow gonna be the ONE thing that will suddenly make AMC a ratings powerhouse again as opposed to being yet another ridiculous story that AMC fcks up & does a ton of unnecessary damage to a bunch of characters. AGAIN.

It's not amazing. I think I approach soaps with some big biases but also as an intelligent viewer. I don't appreciate being told that when I liek a story and dont' see it as offensive or out of character it's cuz somehow I don't know my characters (in this case not remotely true) or am just uselessly chearleading a destructive story because... Well honestly I'm not sure why you think I am, but it doesn't matter. I think it's the best thing AMC has done in a while, and I look forward to the aftermath. If it goes in the way you suggest I can't pretend I won't be disappointed, but I don't see it there yet, at all. I would appreciate you trying to see why some long time fans do like certain stories you don't and not just saying they've all been drinking the koolaid--honestly I think I do get where you're coming from and think most of your theories are justified by the past. But it doesn't mean I agree in this case, and I don't think that means someone's wrong.

Exactly. I loathe all this procreation fixation but for me this story is about the performances and so far the performances have me riveted. I feel for these characters and it's been a long time since I've felt deeply for any soap character. The genre has beaten that out of me for the most part so I'm going to take this ride.

Agreed--and I think Agnes herself said that about soap stories back in the 70s. It's not a new thought (and yes, could be one reason why soaps are next to dead--all these stories now are cliche and not shocking, but that's a diff issue)

Actually I loved them together & didn't mind Les being a baby peddler.

Because back then they were treated like any other supercouple with the usual cliches & both characters were allowed the same integrity as their White peers as opposed to being set up to fail like they are now.

Name one other supercouple that had one half of the pairing give his wife a baby cause theirs died.

I can name a number of supercouples who did worse things to each other from Dimitri and Erica to Brooke and Adam, to a story I would find more offensive with Angie and Jesse like the Ruth might cheat on Joe story, etc.

And I still think if you think Jesse doing this is because he's a minority yet had no porb with Angie's dad dealing in babies, a crime that used to be associated with minorities (in fiction) specifically, you're blinder than Angie (let me guess, a story you found offensive too). Aside from Jesse and ANgie mourning dteadily for 6 months, what kind of story would you give them?

A grieving story that lasted months would be, frankly, the death knell, if it hasn't been rung already, for AMC.

Oh please.

AMC has been in it's death throes for years.

Don't act like a realistic story played by good actors would all of the sudden cause viewers to tune out.

People already complained one reason they left was due to depressing stories.

Yeah that's why they left.

It had nothing to do with racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, bad acting, bad writing or lack of diversity or ABC's love of GRYAN.

Agnes said that the Ann/Paul child grieving story in the 70s got such harsh fan reaction, and by all reports it was expertly told, that they had to end it quickly.

...And yet GH which is MUCH darker than AMC (and has been for a lot longer) gets better ratings.

It's NOT what the show should to right now--for creative or commercial reasons (IMHO, I can respect that it is what you wanna watch).

Cause Dead Baby Switching is LIGHT & FUN!

Also knowing how Jesse was in the 80s, and also watching Jacob who IMHO was basically Jesse on Loving, this is not by any stretch of the imagination character assasination or out of character for him.

How Jesse was in the 80's? A good cop & hardworking man who provided for his family?

So yes this definitely IS a stretch at best & complete character assassination at worst.

Also as much as you would like to mesh them to help your already reaching "point" Jesse & Jacob are TWO separate characters so there's no comparison.

I think you're grasping here.

No hon.

That would be you grasping.

But it's ok cause AMC's basically done anyway.

Oh please.

AMC has been in it's death throes for years.

Don't act like a realistic story played by good actors would all of the sudden cause viewers to tune out.

Yeah that's why they left.

It had nothing to do with racism, sexism, homophobia, ageism, bad acting, bad writing or lack of diversity or ABC's love of GRYAN.

...And yet GH which is MUCH darker than AMC (and has been for a lot longer) gets better ratings.

Cause Dead Baby Switching is LIGHT & FUN!

How Jesse was in the 80's? A good cop & hardworking man who provided for his family?

So yes this definitely IS a stretch at best & complete character assassination at worst.

Also as much as you would like to mesh them to help your already reaching "point" Jesse & Jacob are TWO separate characters so there's no comparison.

No hon.

That would be you grasping.

But it's ok cause AMC's basically done anyway.

Nice post, Dee Dee....... [insert applause emoticon here]

Sure, maybe I'm accepting crumbs when I should be angrily shouting for full meals, but I've given up doing that for soaps, and I enjoy what I'm being fed.

And THAT is precisely why Daytime is in the position it's in now.

I don't think he was a very compelling actor--I mean I think Sean has less acitng experience and he atleast is more interesting to watch.

Even if you don't like Terrell you could basically put any minority male actor in his place (TIM STICKNEY) & the point would still stand.

and I think to compare what they did to Greg to what they just did to Jesse is, frankly, deluded.

Deluded? Really?

Claiming two separate characters are the same while asserting that dead baby switches are somehow NOT dark & the kind of light & fun stories AMC NEEDS NOW isn't deluded?

Ok.

You even said that most of your complaint about Jesse and this story is about what you seem to KNOW they'll do to him.

Which they will.

AMC doesn't do quality anymore.

Why are you even still watching?

Because I can.

If that bothers you than tough.

If you're so sure it's gonna just bring the minorities down even further and nothign can be done by it, maybe the only thing you can do is turn it off?

This board has an ignore function if you can't deal.

The end.

You don't think there's any significance at all to the fact that so many fans are loving and enjoying this story?

They're enjoying it NOW.

NOW being the important word.

Things will change soon enough.

For all the disgusting useless Ryelee pimping we get, they still haven't gone as far to try to instigate them as a couple that people look up to

They don't?

AMC hasn't spent years pushing Gryan sickm, obsessive love & steamrolling tons of characters in the process to the detriment of all else?

And don't get valid issues YOU (as well as a healthy portion of Daytime's remaning audience) refusal to deal with confused with whining.

I don't appreciate being told that when I liek a story and dont' see it as offensive or out of character it's cuz somehow I don't know my characters

Again though you're allowed to like whatever "story" or characters you like just as I'm allowed to call hypocrisy & bullst about the double standards Daytime & certain fans happily employ when hyping character destructive stories that suit their agendas.