And then there's the Female Psycho.

I suppose Shelia Carter and Janet Green would be tops.

From the book

The meddlesome and villianous mother/grandmother

Geraldine EON

Liz AW

Meg LOL

Pheobe AMC

As children we sometimes fantasize about the villianous mother who is responsible for all our bad luck. Well. these mothers are everything we've ever resented; destructive, rich, snobbish, powerful, and always,always meddlesome. At worst they hatch evil plots; at best they are deadly gossips. At bottom, they need to take over other people's lives. about the only kind thing one can say of them is that thay are not so selfish as their actions suggest;whatever they do,it's for somebody's good. There seems to be a need on the part of viewers to believe that there are such characters, and that they'tre always wrong. Viewers never identify themselves with the villianous mother, says one headwriter who gets mail on the subject,"but she's just like their mother, mother-in-law, or their aunt". We doubt it.

Other examples from that time would be Mona on TD and Vanessa on Y&R. Iris on AW joined the group when Dennis was aged.

Agnes Nixon made a specialty of these women but they seem to have died out as soaps lost interest in older characters.Was Mary Smythe on AMC one of the last?

Was Mary Smythe on AMC one of the last?

IDK if she was one of the last, but she was definitely one. I'd say Barbara Ryan had a touch of that herself when Paul, Will, and Jenn were all on the show at the same time as adults.

The Hot Mess character is a direct result of soaps going for plot over character, As a result to keep thigs hopping, these women go through marriages, affairs, pregnancies, kidnappings etc at lightning speed. What may have happened to a character in the past over 10 years, now happens in 2.

I think Days started this in the 80's with their heroines facing one peril after another.

Viewers lose interest and empathy for these characters as they move through trauma with little fall out.

I thought of another -- The Wise Older Woman (sadly, a thing of the past)

Myrtle Fargate would be a prime example.

The wise older woman is still used:

Y&R-Kay (Liz Foster would have been better)

ATWT-Kim, Nancy (Maybe Lisa at the end)

OLTL-Vikki

Days-Maggie

B&B-Stephanie is quickly taking on this role while moving to the sidelines

With so many vets again, I'd expect to see more 'wise older women' types take shape. That is, if the genre lives that long.

I think all of the same types exist but in more modern incarnations. Today, less people admire the 'bitch' character and you see more women with jobs making money on their own. Diane on Y&R is a good example of this sort of transformation. Previously, she was without any skill and her career was getting a rich man. Now, she build towers in Tokyo and only hunts rich men for sport.

Any chance that you can post the photos of Kitty Shea? I would love to see them (photos from that era are hard to come by).

Diane isn't a bitch. Diane is a Vixen.

And Maria trying to make Katherine a "Wise Old Woman" has nearly ruined the character.

The benevolent mother/grandmother

Bert GL

Sarah LOL

Mona AMC

Alice DOOL

Jessie GH

Maeve RH

Kate AMC

Nancy ATWT

Ellen ATWT

These women have seen more than their share of trouble (considering they are so innofensive in the first place). But they go right on believing in the sanctity of marriage, the indestructability of family life, and so on and so forth. Their attitude can be characterized as optimism in the face of facts-by far the bravest form of optimism. They may also be called a matriach.if she is not matriach of a family, she is, like Jessie brewer, the matriach of the soaps' second most important institution-the hospital. She is simple and of a religous nature. she tries to be tolerant and non-interfering with her children, but that's difficult since she really knows what's Right.

On today's soaps Maggie (DOOL) and Viki (OLTL) have evolved into those characters.Most soaps dismantled their families and dropped older characters so matriachs are in short supply.

In the broken record department, if soaps would broaden their horizons a little, there are tons of new archetypes that could be explored in the five-days-a-week format. Where the trailer trash bitches at?

Bonnie Lockhart?

And Maria trying to make Katherine a "Wise Old Woman" has nearly ruined the character.

For real. The thought of Katherine being in the same group of Nancy, Alice, etc, is just all kinds of wrong.

The benevolent mother/grandmother

Bert GL

Sarah LOL

Mona AMC

Alice DOOL

Jessie GH

Maeve RH

Kate AMC

Nancy ATWT

Ellen ATWT

Poor, poor Ellen...

Bonnie Lockhart?

Right, but I was thinking more along the lines of a character who wasn't supposed to be almost purely comedic relief. I really wish AMC hadn't ruined Krystal and Babe less than a year after they even arrived, because there could have been some interesting family members introduced through them, some characters different from what we're used to seeing in daytime.

Now that I think about it, I'm really thinking of Slezak as a diva, not Viki. Kinda like how all long-running soap actresses earn the title of diva, no matter who they play.

Exactly, but I still get your original point.

Felicia Gallant would be another example, a woman with a heroine's storylines and a bitch's wardrobe. Of ocurse she started as a bitch, but Linda Dano really wanted her to be likeable and she got her wish. I think that in many ways made Felicia an unique, and realistic soap diva because she in many ways reminded me of older women in my life who dressed to kill, suffered no fools, but weren't bitches as much as capable of being bitchy.

SOD used to do a "Diva" feature every couple of years or so, naming a diva from each show. AW's Rachel got the title one year (at that point I didn't realize the article was recurring, they probably did Felicia the time before) but you'd agree that she was a very Viki-like character. However, as DaytimeFan was getting at, her prior bitchiness and period of fabulosity could also qualify her.

Some other divas SOD named in those articles that I can recall:

-Iris, AW

-Vivian, DOOL

-Dorian, OLTL

-Jill, Y&R

-Alex, Vanessa, GL

-Tiffany, GH

-Gwyn, Loving

-Sally, Stephanie, B&B

-Lisa, Lucinda and/or Barbara (?) ATWT

-and maybe Bette or Olivia from SuBe, foggy...

There was a scholarly soap book in a college library I thumbed through once and they had a similar section on archetypes. They grouped Alexandra Spaulding and Myrna Clegg in that meddlesome and villianous mother/grandmother category which was interesting as Marj Dusay would go on to play both parts.

Right, but I was thinking more along the lines of a character who wasn't supposed to be almost purely comedic relief. I really wish AMC hadn't ruined Krystal and Babe less than a year after they even arrived, because there could have been some interesting family members introduced through them, some characters different from what we're used to seeing in daytime.

Tawny and Amber Moore on B&B are the current queens of the Trailer Trash these days

The Former Playboy

Lance Y&R

Doug DOOL

Kevin ATWT

Rick LOL

Nick AMC

The soaps recognize that Mr Right (or Dr Right) is a mature fantasy, and that many viewers retain the adolescent taste for the questionable or disreputable lover. This is the man of darker passions-the man we hate to love, but do. He doesn't exist in soaps. But he almost does; we do have the former Playboy, the slightly mysterious and not altogether stodgy man who is, as they say,'attractive to women'. by the time this charcter appears on daytime, he has forsaken his playboy existence, and sought love in the arms of a favorable woman (or two). About the only signs of his previous existence is his money (since he's not a doctor or a lawyer, the money is probably a bad sign!) A classic example is the now deceased Steve Frame, who first appeared on Another world as a well heeeled bachelor of uncertain background. Steve never quite derved the romantic attentions of lovely Alice Matthews, or the 9 million women who followed him daily. But he got it.

This archetype doesn't seem to exist today. The likes of Billy Abbott and Sonny Corinthos seem to represent the men we hate to love -but the writing doesn't do them any favours and they come off as sleazy and shallow.

Edited January 28, 201114 yr by Paul Raven

This archetype doesn't seem to exist today. The likes of Billy Abbott and Sonny Corinthos seem to represent the men we hate to love -but the writing doesn't do them any favours and they come off as sleazy and shallow.

This is because the soaps no longer want traditional leading men, which the bad boys used to balance out. Now soaps sneer at that. Instead they have worthless husks like Chompers who are constantly passed off as the ideal.

From the book

The meddlesome and villianous mother/grandmother

Geraldine EON

Liz AW

Meg LOL

Pheobe AMC

Geraldine I think has one of the best soap names ever: Geraldine Whitney Saxon. How can you beat that when you're a soap character?