As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[Paul Raven]

John Colenback as Dan was looking rough and way older than 43(his age at the time) That drastic SORASING of Dan backfired down the track as the character was pretty much played out by this point - 3 marriages and now settled with his 'true love' Kim. Dan should have been about 20 by this time without the SORAS.

Still killing him off seemed drastic. Paul had already been unnecessarily killed off earlier in the decade. Maybe Dan should have chosen to leave Oakdale when he realized he was dying. That would have left the possibility of a return down the track with a recast (John Reilly again?) just when Kim had moved on.

The show had way too many over 40's at that point and even the younger characters mostly came across as stodgy.

Ditching characters like Alex, Ralph, Valerie , Mary etc was a quick fix but apart from James -who came in as a romantic lead and turned villianous too quickly, the Dobsons new characters like Brad and Nick were just as boring,

[DRW50]

That's a good idea about Dan leaving the family but not dying oncamera (which they'd do with Gunnar later on - although they never brought him back either). 

Dreary characters and a moribund atmosphere were the biggest problems. The Dobsons did try to bring in some livelier characters, some of them worked, some didn't, but they also had quite a few dullards. 

I'm deeply grateful to be able to see this May 1979 episode, mainly for the Ralph and Joyce scene and for the moments with Dan wrestling with his illness as Kim talks about their dream home, but unfortunately this still seemed to suffer from the same problems as others I've seen from this period in having such long stretches of tedium. There was no need for the John material (much as I enjoyed seeing him with Kim), the Willows material or the material with Doug. 

I'd actually forgotten until Doug started going on about finding Marcia that their story was still around by the time of the WLS uploads from October/November. I find Doug to be oddly attractive but that would not be enough to make me sit through that plot for months, especially with that dreary Annie in the mix.

And the Willows going on for months and months is also questionable to me. I still like the gothic feel and Lisa being in a new setting, but Bennett isn't well cast, and the mystery is already too obvious.

I don't really think the Don and Joyce scene is as strong as it could be either. I am not sure if the episode before this had Don overhearing, but the way it was executed here where we just hear him ask to talk to her afterward and then most of his reaction amounts to mean mugging - it doesn't work for me. 

The biggest issue may be that I'm not sure there was any need for ATWT to be an hour show. Kim/Dan and Joyce/Don/Ralph were all we should have had and would have had in a half hour.

Even with all the stunts the Dobsons brought in, a lot of early '80s still feel tedious. I don't think the show ever figures out how to work in the hour format until around 1984 or 1985.

I did love the Ralph and Joyce moment though, mainly through Barbara Rodell's performance - she managed to make you feel sorry for Joyce as she is clearly insane.

The cliffhanger with Joyce is also somewhat effective, even if it made me think of poor Anton Yelchin.

I wonder if this episode is the last mention of Sandy Hughes (or whatever her last name was by the end).

Edited February 2 by DRW50

[Paul Raven]

Looking at the garage scene I notice they put these huge bumper protectors over the rear bumper to make space b/w them where Barbara/Joyce could stand so that she wasn't actually being squashed up against the wall.

Did the car slip into reverse b/c Joyce didn't select Park properly in her frazzled state?

I was trying to work out the make/model of the car to see if it was actually something Joyce and Don might be driving that fitted their status.

So often they have characters driving something unsuitable. I guess they figure housewives won't notice or care.

[Vee]

What exactly was the Willows storyline and what happened? Who wrote it? Something about Lisa and a bookstore?

[Paul Raven]

The Willows  was a Ralph Ellis/Eugenie Hunt story. They took over from the Soderbergs in late 78.

On the outs with Grant, Lisa takes a trio and winds up an Inn called The Willows, run by Bennett Hadley.

It was Gothic type story with Lisa delving into the mystery of Bennett's dead wife and the possibility he killed her.

Doug Marland wrapped that story up.

[Mitch64]

They did do a short plot where Mary and Joyce are arguing, and Mary falls down the stairs and everyone is sure Joyce did it on purpose and pushed her. Mary woke up and told everyone what happened but then she went off someplace and got hit by a car and went into another coma..poor Mary, but I still don't know how anyone knew she actually was in a coma..she was so boring.

[Khan]

I agree.  Doug Higgins, who resides in the Southwest today and works as an artist, was a dud as Bennett Hadley.

In order for the character and storyline to have worked, they needed someone who was very charming, yet who also retained enough of an aura of mystery to be slightly sinister, especially for Eileen Fulton/Lisa.  Higgins, however, was just so dull.  But, then again, everything that I've seen and read re: the Willows just feels like filler to me.

I'd really love to know Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt's original intentions with the storyline.  Was the plan to have Bennett move to Oakdale with Lisa after the storyline finished?  Was there maybe going to be a Lisa/Grant/Bennett triangle of some kind? 

Perhaps, one reason why P&G had Douglas Marland work temporarily on ATWT before moving over to GL was to wrap up the Willows storyline and get Lisa back in Oakdale as quickly as possible, since it's obvious the Ellises left or were fired before they were allowed to finish it.

Meanwhile, what are everyone's thoughts on Valerie adopting Kate, which was another storyline that was running at the same time as the Willows and the whole Lisa/Grant/Joyce/Don/Mary-go-round?  I haven't read many comments about that storyline on this thread, so I was just curious. 

To me, the actress who played Kate kind of reminds me of Lucy Deakins or (God help us) young Martha Byrne.  She comes across as a real teenager, not a twentysomething pretending to be one; and she also had a good rapport with Suzanne Davidson, who was very convincing as young, awkward Betsy as well.

Honestly, I didn't care, lol.  The whole situation felt so contrived to me.  I, too, have been pinned against a wall by a car that somehow had rolled back, but I didn't have any trouble pulling myself out.  Either Joyce was the stupidest person alive, or she was trying once more to manipulate poor Don, lol.

Edited February 2 by Khan

[SoapDope]

If Dan had been brought back from the dead at a later date, maybe Jed Allen could have been recast in the part if Reilly was not interested or available.

Joyce & Lisa's feud could have driven stories for decades like Kay & Jill on Y&R. 

[Khan]

Just imagine if, for example, Joyce had been the one to learn about Scott Eldridge's existence.

Imagine, too, if Dan still had been alive during Steve and Betsy's romance.  I think Dan would have been LIVID to see his daughter involved with someone who was several years older and had a sketchy past.  That could have caused conflict between him and Kim, who might have shared Dan's point of view, but who also felt that interfering would only result in driving Betsy further away.

[SoapDope]

There was so much wasted potential by writing Joyce off. I can see Dan and Steve coming to blows. I also wonder how Dan would have felt about Craig and if he would have been duped into thinking he was the better match for Betsy. 

[Reverend Ruthledge]

I think he would have been more upset about Betsy dating Josh, who had raped someone. Then again, if I remember correctly, maybe not as even Ellen and David seemed to show only mild concern about that situation. Which was strange for David who was so upset about his daughter being involved with John Dixon that it drove him to a nervous breakdown. 

[Mona Kane Croft]

Does anyone know if Don and Joyce's house is the same house that Lila and Casey later lived in?  The living-room sets definitely look very similar.   

[soapfave06]

That is an interesting take and would have taken the feud in a different direction, I wonder what could have been done with Don in that time had he stayed or whom he could have paired with. 

[All My Shadows]

Currently watching the 1979 ep. More comments to come, but Dan’s presence makes me even more livid than the Ellen/David/Annie scene from ‘73. Patsy was FORTY YEARS OLD, and not only was John Colenback two years OLDER than her, but he looked at least 5 years older than his actual age. Part of me understands why MEB and the Dobsons moved away from the core Hughes and Stewart characters - when you get to the point where an actor is older than the woman playing his mother, how do you not just scrap the whole thing? Thankfully they fixed Tom before it got rough on that end.

With no SORAS, Dan is in his 20s throughout the 80s and becomes a leading man in the 90s, giving Ellen and David reason to still be around as regular characters. With more moderate SORAS, he’s in his 30s during the Marland era and (rightfully) serves as a contemporary for Tom.

I wonder how much of this is the fault of wanting/needing to stick to the Hughes/Stewart core by the time the show was hitting the 70s. No excuse, though. David could have had brothers. We could have seen more of the Lowell side of the family (we still have no footage of Judge Lowell, btw). It’s just lazy and devastating what they did to the family.

Seeing Mary always makes me mad that they never tried Teddy again in the 00s or ever brought in Christina. We needed more Hughes characters, and Casey needed cousins. They really tried to make us think of Will and Jenn as Hughes, and by extension, sure, but having more blood Hughes around would’ve allowed them to keep Will and Jenn’s Sullivan roots alive, building a dynamic little set-up with Barbara and Kim.

I really spent ATWT’s last five years bemoaning its wasted potential, and here we are again. The tools were there, man. The fugging tools were there!

I loved Jade and the role she played in the teen group, but aside from her introductory revelation as Rose’s daughter, all of her stories could have gone to Christina Hughes.

Edited February 2 by All My Shadows

[SoapDope]

When Kim first appeared in 1972 she was already a widow of Jason Reynolds. I wonder why the writers did not give Kim a child or children from this first marriage ? That could have driven storyline in decades to come.