28 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

Yes...and why put her on the back burner when there was so much going on that she could disapprove of...she should have always been the person who had a thing about James and knew he was bad when he was still hiding it...( A Swedish prince is better then our Tom??) and Joyce was on the loose, and greasy Steve, and loudmouth Margo...John Dixon's daughter of all things getting with Tom??? She was one of my Mom's faves and she quit watching when they put her on the back burner and I now know why, my Mom was the type that you stayed at home and took care of your house and kids, but she never backed down or let my Dad walk over her and she ALWAYS had opinions on what was right and wrong, but was always there if someone needed anything and she thought her kids were the world. So Irna really did have a whole generation in mind when writing for Nancy and it is sad that was lost during the Dobsons time. 

I saw in interview with Wagner who talks about Nancy being too involved in her kids life and being at a friends house who invited another friend who wanted to have coffee with Nancy Hughes and Wagner having to tell her in her haughty Nancy voice, "I am NOT the same!" Uh, yea, Helen you kinda are!

She had this boring doctor boyfriend who she actually SLEPT with! I can imagine what Nancy would have said about that? "Really dear, you aren't Lisa!" 

That would have been the perfect time for a widowed Don to come back with that kid and for he and Ellen to be invovled again. I would have had Lisa chasing him (and pulling out some of her old tricks.), and Nancy being very concerned that Ellen is not getting back with David, and the possiblity that her golden girl Lisa would be back in the family.

Didn't Ellen also sleep with that Mitchell guy near the end of the Marland era 1993?  Not Earl Mitchell, but an earlier character who had returned, last name Mitchell.  She was dating him, and it was certainly implied they were sleeping together.  I don't remember it being shown.  

55 minutes ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Didn't Ellen also sleep with that Mitchell guy near the end of the Marland era 1993?  Not Earl Mitchell, but an earlier character who had returned, last name Mitchell.  She was dating him, and it was certainly implied they were sleeping together.  I don't remember it being shown.  

Are you talking about Ralph played by Keith Charles ? His character was first on in the 1970's.

2 hours ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

I was thinking the same thing about Doug.  And I don't remember Claire being particularly neurotic until she got involved with Michael Shea.  And HE would have made anyone neurotic!   I suppose it is possible Claire had been portrayed as neurotic before she married Doug.  But she always seemed pretty normal to me during their marriage, at least.  

Claire was neurotic from the very beginning and Doug was the only stable relationship she had but that relationship WAS stable. He was the best thing that ever happened to her but, unfortunately, he died. 

58 minutes ago, SoapDope said:

Are you talking about Ralph played by Keith Charles ? His character was first on in the 1970's.

Yes, it was Ralph Mitchell.  Thank you! He returned to Oakdale near the end of Marland's run as head-writer around 1993, and he and Ellen had a romance.  I think Marland was setting up a little love triangle between Ellen, Ralph, and another woman.  Not sure who, but I think it may have been Lisa.  Then Marland died and Ralph was written off.  Does anyone else remember this?  

Edited February 1Feb 1 by Mona Kane Croft

6 hours ago, Reverend Ruthledge said:

At the risk of being pedantic, Claire had a steady partner with Doug which was only cut short by his death. 

I was mostly thinking of her compared to Ellen, who generally always just had David, aside from brief periods. Claire was with Jim Lowell, then Doug, then Michael, for serious relationships.

4 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

Yes...and why put her on the back burner when there was so much going on that she could disapprove of...she should have always been the person who had a thing about James and knew he was bad when he was still hiding it...( A Swedish prince is better then our Tom??) and Joyce was on the loose, and greasy Steve, and loudmouth Margo...John Dixon's daughter of all things getting with Tom??? She was one of my Mom's faves and she quit watching when they put her on the back burner and I now know why, my Mom was the type that you stayed at home and took care of your house and kids, but she never backed down or let my Dad walk over her and she ALWAYS had opinions on what was right and wrong, but was always there if someone needed anything and she thought her kids were the world. So Irna really did have a whole generation in mind when writing for Nancy and it is sad that was lost during the Dobsons time. 

I saw in interview with Wagner who talks about Nancy being too involved in her kids life and being at a friends house who invited another friend who wanted to have coffee with Nancy Hughes and Wagner having to tell her in her haughty Nancy voice, "I am NOT the same!" Uh, yea, Helen you kinda are!

She had this boring doctor boyfriend who she actually SLEPT with! I can imagine what Nancy would have said about that? "Really dear, you aren't Lisa!" 

That would have been the perfect time for a widowed Don to come back with that kid and for he and Ellen to be invovled again. I would have had Lisa chasing him (and pulling out some of her old tricks.), and Nancy being very concerned that Ellen is not getting back with David, and the possiblity that her golden girl Lisa would be back in the family.

Thanks. I didn't realize they had gone that far. I guess it was the early '80s...

You and @All My Shadows are both making great points about Nancy. I always enjoy seeing Nancy, but I felt like she was especially off the chain in that 1973 episode, whereas in some past episodes Grandpa was more of a balance. By the early '80s, with Grandpa gone and Chris not appearing as often, she could have really been a force, if the show had seen her value. 

1 hour ago, Mona Kane Croft said:

Yes, it was Ralph Mitchell.  Thank you! He returned to Oakdale near the end of Marland's run as head-writer around 1993, and he and Ellen had a romance.  I think Marland was setting up a little love triangle between Ellen, Ralph, and another woman.  Not sure who, but I think it may have been Lisa.  Then Marland died and Ralph was written off.  Does anyone else remember this?  

Is he the one that Kim dated when she and Bob were separated?

I knew he and Ellen dated but haven't watched enough of that time to realize they'd become intimate. 

I am glad Caso at least kept Pat Bruder on (until he was fired) but I am sorry we didn't get more of her finding a new love and life. 

OMG. How Joyce revealed her affair and revealing she shot Don not knowing the intercom was on for Don to hear it all...😮 That was genius by the writers. 

I am stunned that Joyce was never brought back in later years to tear through Oakdale. I imagine that her and Lucinda would've locked horns (too) when she wasn't at odds with Lisa. 

And poor Kim. Were the blueprints of the condo that I've seen clips of her living with Betsy and Andy post-Dan's death? Or was the house nixed altogether? 

And is this the beginning of the arc of Lisa at The Willows? 

16 hours ago, DRW50 said:

 

@EricMontreal22 you have probably already seen these, but Jay is in a number of the clips (full episodes chopped up) WLS posted from October 79-early 1980. Here's the first (he's in the last sectio

@Vee

Thanks!  I actually have a question which can probably be easily answered...  Before ATWT stopped being live, what was the previous soap opera to stop airing live?

5 minutes ago, EricMontreal22 said:

Thanks!  I actually have a question which can probably be easily answered...  Before ATWT stopped being live, what was the previous soap opera to stop airing live?

You probably know that edge of Night was also live until the switch to ABC.

Before that I would assume it was Search for Tomorrow/Guiding Light which went to tape when they expanded to 30 mins in 1968??

1 hour ago, NothinButAttitude said:

OMG. How Joyce revealed her affair and revealing she shot Don not knowing the intercom was on for Don to hear it all...😮 That was genius by the writers. 

I am stunned that Joyce was never brought back in later years to tear through Oakdale. I imagine that her and Lucinda would've locked horns (too) when she wasn't at odds with Lisa. 

And poor Kim. Were the blueprints of the condo that I've seen clips of her living with Betsy and Andy post-Dan's death? Or was the house nixed altogether? 

And is this the beginning of the arc of Lisa at The Willows? 

Great episode other than the Willows plot (great set though, wonder if they used it again). What were the head writers thinking (wonder if this is what got Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt fired).  Putting Lisa in this story. outside of Oakdale, disconnected from the entire cast. Made NO sense! But the Joyce plot was amazing, years in the making. Love Kim shading John.  The actor playing dan was a bore

4 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

I am stunned that Joyce was never brought back in later years to tear through Oakdale. I imagine that her and Lucinda would've locked horns (too) when she wasn't at odds with Lisa. 

I think what hurt Joyce was her being so tied to characters who were long gone, aside from family functions or supporting Lisa. There was certainly a time she could have returned - maybe when Grant was given that bizarre return in 1989 where we were meant to think he might have killed Earl or was gaslighting Lisa - but she doesn't seem like Marland's type of difficult female character. Lilith, Tess, Marcy, etc. were much more blatant and one-note (and I generally enjoyed those characters but I will still admit it). 

If later hacks had known of her, those who wrote in the '00s, she probably would have shown up, but she would have been played by someone who had been on AMC or OLTL and probably put poison gas in Oakdale.

2 hours ago, VelekaCarruthers said:

Great episode other than the Willows plot (great set though, wonder if they used it again). What were the head writers thinking (wonder if this is what got Ralph Ellis and Eugenie Hunt fired).  Putting Lisa in this story. outside of Oakdale, disconnected from the entire cast. Made NO sense! 

I can see why they went this route with Lisa. She had been repeating the same stories with Bob and Grant for years. A fresh start makes sense, even if nothing came of it.

I found it odd that Ralph was brought back to interact with Lisa and Ellen.

He was involved with Valerie, Mary and Joyce in the 70's, none of whom were around.

It seemed kind of random.

Don would have made more sense but he had been married off to Mary. I guess he could have been widowed (again-see Janice) or divorced (again-see Joyce)

Maybe Conard Fowkes was unavailable and Keith Charles was well regarded in the P&G/CBS world.

Edited February 2Feb 2 by Paul Raven

20 minutes ago, Paul Raven said:

I found it odd that Ralph was brought back to interact with Lisa and Ellen.

He was involved with Valerie, Mary and Joyce in the 70's, none of whom were around.

It seemed kind of random.

Don would have made more sense but he had been married off to Mary. I guess he could have been widowed (again-see Janice) or divorced (again-see Joyce)

Maybe Conard Fowkes was unavailable and Keith Charles was well regarded in the P&G/CBS world.

Don would have made more sense, especially given his history with Lisa. Maybe they didn't want too many older male characters around and Don would have been more prominent than Ralph. It wouldn't have cost the show much to kill Mary off. Nothing against Kelly Wood but the character bores me to tears (that May 1979 episode is one of the few I've seen where she has a bit of presence....and one of the few where she is flatteringly styled).

On 1/31/2025 at 11:32 AM, VelekaCarruthers said:

Robert Soderberg and Edith Sommer. Great writers.  To think they went from head writers at GL from 68-73 then switched to ATWT from 73-78 (they were still writing in 9/1978). Ironically, the Dobsons made the same switch from GL (where they served for five years) to ATWT. Soderberg wrote scripts for the Dobsons on GL in 1979 before they moved to ATWT in Jan 1980.  He also served as ATWT story consultant in Spring 1984 (not to mention his stints as co-HW on AW).  Edith didn't work in soaps after 1978 and died in 91. Wonder why. 

Did they write for other soaps???

6 hours ago, NothinButAttitude said:

OMG. How Joyce revealed her affair and revealing she shot Don not knowing the intercom was on for Don to hear it all...😮 That was genius by the writers. 

I am stunned that Joyce was never brought back in later years to tear through Oakdale. I imagine that her and Lucinda would've locked horns (too) when she wasn't at odds with Lisa. 

And poor Kim. Were the blueprints of the condo that I've seen clips of her living with Betsy and Andy post-Dan's death? Or was the house nixed altogether? 

And is this the beginning of the arc of Lisa at The Willows? 

Whoa, that was an action packed episode as far as Joyce goes, did not know she ended up trapped behind the car. Now having seen Joyce at perhaps her worst, they definitely should have brought her back after a rest, I would’ve killed to see Joyce and Lucinda going at it with Lisa in the middle! 
 

I have always been fascinated by The Willows arc with Lisa, I think the idea sounds nice on paper, but maybe it was the casting of Bennett and Hester that made it drag? They weren’t coming off very gothic at all, Lisa and Bennett also had no chemistry. Had they cast someone gothic and romantic I would have been glued. 

I saw on an old Youtube comment that they should have kept Lisa and Joyce as rivals for longer by killing Mary and having a whodunit. That could have been interesting (I know GH was doing the same with Diana around the same time, but there's no such thing as originality).