On 10/8/2023 at 4:21 PM, Soaplovers said:

I'm guessing Marland kind of envisioned Lily/Holden to be a sort of Taming of the Shrew done from 80s teen perspective... spoiled rich girl meeting her match in the stable boy.

 

If you read Marland's bible..that was exactly what he envisioned..though it was sexier on paper then with the actors...Lily was bitchier (that Lily would never have jumped at the chance to be at the Snyder farm) and there was some dynamic with a horse whip...(you can tell Marland was a gay boy from the midwest with his fascination with sex in barns and field with hunky farm boys..and well...it was fun...) but they had to tame it down because..Martha..God love her..did not exude that kind of sexuality ( he channeled that into Emily Stewart.

But yea..only Marland could manage to find an even less sexual performer in the Lily recast and still write it like every steroid farm hunk in jeans was in love with her. 

20 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

If you read Marland's bible..that was exactly what he envisioned..though it was sexier on paper then with the actors...Lily was bitchier (that Lily would never have jumped at the chance to be at the Snyder farm) and there was some dynamic with a horse whip...(you can tell Marland was a gay boy from the midwest with his fascination with sex in barns and field with hunky farm boys..and well...it was fun...) but they had to tame it down because..Martha..God love her..did not exude that kind of sexuality ( he channeled that into Emily Stewart.

But yea..only Marland could manage to find an even less sexual performer in the Lily recast and still write it like every steroid farm hunk in jeans was in love with her. 

😂😂😂😂

Marland sure was one gay guy!!

I still remember the early Holden days and what a hard hunk he was and then those white undies only in the pond...damn

Edited October 18, 20232 yr by Soapsuds

Wasn’t Martha cast before Marland took over HW duties though?

This episode was on Youtube before, but I think it hasn't been for a time. Someone reuploaded it. As it isn't brand new I won't annoy people by tagging them.

 

Marland's ATWT just keeps on giving. I'm in August of '86 and Tom has finally found out from Barbara's poor put-upon business partner that he never slept with her.

They are really, really pushing the Lucy/Ethel shenanigans with Shannon and Harriet. I like a lot of it but I'm wondering how others felt. I am surprised there's some sort of shrunken head mischief in the Dominican Republic when we know that comes up years later with Duncan's first wife? sister?

Since you're watching that period, please remind me of the story about Duncan's castle.

Did he ship it over from Europe?  Or, did they just rebuild a similar one in Oakdale?  And afterward was it just abandoned and nobody ever lived there again?

Edited October 20, 20232 yr by j swift

It's been awhile, but I could swear he shipped it over. We had a whole discussion about it quite some time ago when I last was viewing ATWT regularly, it's somewhere in here.

Edited October 20, 20232 yr by Vee

found it, thanks @Vee

Marland may have been inspired by an actual story, given that the news story and plot occurred around the same time.  - truth is stranger than fiction (at least Duncan didn't collect Santas).

In 1986, during a visit to Scotland, Masahiko Tsugawa.was driving along the A72 near Carluke, Lanarkshire, when he spotted Milton Lockhart House. Mr Tsugawa, a great admirer of Scottish and European medieval culture, decided the building would make the ideal home for his burgeoning collection of Santas in Japan.

And so the following year the entire building was shipped, stone by stone, in 30 huge containers to Japan via the Siberian railway. The undertaking required the blessing of then-USSR President Mikhail Gorbachev.

Edited October 20, 20232 yr by j swift

29 minutes ago, Vee said:

Marland's ATWT just keeps on giving. I'm in August of '86 and Tom has finally found out from Barbara's poor put-upon business partner that he never slept with her.

They are really, really pushing the Lucy/Ethel shenanigans with Shannon and Harriet. I like a lot of it but I'm wondering how others felt. I am surprised there's some sort of shrunken head mischief in the Dominican Republic when we know that comes up years later with Duncan's first wife? sister?

Was Jerry a partner? I thought he did merchandising for her fashion brand Simply Barbara. From what I remember, Barbara got some notion that Jerry was charging her too much for his services and Lucinda suggested that she use her lawyer Ambrose Bingham to get her out of her contract, which Jerry refused to let her out of and I believed he threatened to sue Barbara and wanted Tom to represent him but Tom refused because he still considered Barbara to be like family (even after all she put him through). But, yes, Barbara's lie finally being revealed was a delicious comeuppance for her. 
I really liked the chemistry between the actor who played Jerry and Eileen Fulton (Lisa) and had held out hope for the longest time that he might come back one day, single and he and Lisa would become romantically involved.

Shannon aka Casey was great when she premiered. Duncan was no different when Barbara brought him to Oakdale to stop Shannon's wedding to Brian.

As a couple they were fine for almost a year and then Shannon became annoying and to dependent on Duncan. That was not Shannon. Duncan became annoying as hell. It got worse when Duncan's first wife Lilieth came to town to disrupt their lives and later "kill" Shannon.

57 minutes ago, DramatistDreamer said:

I really liked the chemistry between the actor who played Jerry and Eileen Fulton (Lisa) and had held out hope for the longest time that he might come back one day, single and he and Lisa would become romantically involved.

I like him a lot too.

This is where the YT uploads get sketchy with gaps in '86, so I have no idea if Barbara is exposed to the last of her close family about Tom and Margo or if I have any hope of seeing it. I do wish they'd given the Hugheses a longer confrontation with her about it.

On 10/18/2023 at 7:56 PM, DramatistDreamer said:

Wasn’t Martha cast before Marland took over HW duties though?

Yes. Martha Byrne was cast in early 1985 (around March) and Douglas Marland did not begin his regime as head writer until September 1985. I'm just saddened Byrne & Marland did not get the reunion they wanted each each other, due to his passing prior to her beginning to film. It's clear he wanted her back for us, and did what needed to be done.

 

10 hours ago, Vee said:

I like him a lot too.

This is where the YT uploads get sketchy with gaps in '86, so I have no idea if Barbara is exposed to the last of her close family about Tom and Margo or if I have any hope of seeing it. I do wish they'd given the Hugheses a longer confrontation with her about it.

I was going to mention this in my previous post but I didn’t want to risk spoiling anything for you. Unfortunately, there are several key episodes that are missing and they involve how Lisa finds out about what Barbara has done to Tom and Margo. We only know that Lisa finds out by the frosty way she starts to treat Barbara and she talks about it in whispered tones in a scene where she is discussing it with Tom and Margo in the boutique that she and Barbara share. At that time, Lisa even considered severing her partnership in the boutique with Barbara. We also learn in a conversation that Barbara eventually confessed to Bob and Kim what she had done but the episode where she does it is missing.
Such a shame, because one of the things that I used to enjoy about watching soaps, particularly ATWT as a kid, is watching a narrative unspool itself, bit by bit. And re-watching these episodes over the past few years, I have an even greater appreciation for it, from a writing perspective.  Watching that story unfold, we realize that Barbara’s worst fear (don’t know why she never thought about it when she decided to set Tom up) was always that Lisa, Kim and Bob would find out what she’d done. So, the discovery was twofold: that Tomis finally clued in about Barbara’s misdeeds and quickly informs Margo and they confront a seemingly unrepentant Babs, then the other half is Lisa, Kim and Bob finding out. It’s a pity that we don’t get to see Lisa, Kim and Bob’s reactions because I know there must’ve been some great speeches and lectures in there for Barbara and frankly, I don’t remember how those scenes played out the first time they aired on television.

13 hours ago, Soapsuds said:

Shannon aka Casey was great when she premiered. Duncan was no different when Barbara brought him to Oakdale to stop Shannon's wedding to Brian.

As a couple they were fine for almost a year and then Shannon became annoying and to dependent on Duncan. That was not Shannon. Duncan became annoying as hell. It got worse when Duncan's first wife Lilieth came to town to disrupt their lives and later "kill" Shannon.

Agreed, Shannon was fun when she first came on and her and Harriet had fun scenes together. Duncan was a sly cad and the mystery of the castle and all that was also fun at first. But of course, Marland had to make them both earnest and dreary, so Duncan's weird sister is found out to be his daughter (which is kind of a drag...Duncan should NOT be a dad...) and then we get Shannon talking about "honesty" in a relationship along with also obsessing about Lily along with the rest of the town and it became a drag. (didn't Shannon at one time threaten to stick Babs head in the toilet at Mona Lisa...if so I think another writers snuck that in it was sooo not Marland.)

Lilith was fun and campy (loved her setting bear traps to kill people and shipping bodies of victims to people as a warning...) but seemed out of place in Marland's newly dour world..its like she got confused in her directions and missed Rauch's Llanview and ended up in Oakdale.) 

The castle was dumb but it stuck around to be the "Earl Mitchell Home for Wayward Youth" even though Earl wasn't really dead...Again, I never understood how a ghost just followed the bricks of the castle to the midwest.