As The World Turns Discussion Thread

[NothinButAttitude]

I am so glad that I have someone to watch and comment on these great episodes with. As I've said before, these episodes have been filling the void that the current 4 soaps have left. It is refreshing to watch a soap again where you care and like all of the characters. Even heinous characters like Tonio and James. 

 

And now I am excited to see Duke integrate into the canvas even more thanks to you! I just find him to be refreshing and hilarious. 

[NothinButAttitude]

The Montega arc is something I think would be so HOT right now. With freelance journalists and Americans being abducted and held as political prisoners or assassinated would so strike a nerve with today's audience. It definitely is with me. 

 

Kim and John's exchange was EVERYTHING. I do think that it was rude of Kim to be so dry towards Duke. But I do agree with Duke that John still had feelings for Kim, one of the original women to get away from him. 

 

Seeing the closeness with Margo and Craig in this episode saddened me as we all know how it'd go. Margo would go from being his biggest supporter to biggest basher, and Craig would go from being lovable to a megalomaniac. I thought it was hilarious how Lyla, Emily, and Margo charged in Craig's office after Emily stirred the pot implying that Ellie would encourage Craig to search for Sierra. 

 

Despite all the heinous things that Tonio has done, it was refreshing to see him say nice things about Sierra. I love how Marland truly gives even the most vile characters an Achilles heel. And Peter Boynton/Tonio does have a natural sexiness about him. When he forced a kiss on Emily and had that smirk on his face afterwards, that was hot. No wonder the women stayed jumping his bones. 

 

Speaking of hot men, I don't get how Lily didn't choose Caleb over Holden. Yeah, Holden is super sexy but it is something just rugged and down to Earth about Caleb that drives me wild. If I was Lily, I'd pack up and go to Waco in a hurry. 

 

 at Duke/Caleb over Lily. She always had all the hot men fighting over her....

 

Uh oh at Emily figuring out that Adam is Hal's. This can only spell trouble....

 

 

Edited October 17, 2015 by Nothin'ButAttitude

[DramatistDreamer]

I know, NBA, it's great to be able to chat with someone else, episode by episode on some good drama.  Of the four remaining daytime soaps, I only bother with one now (B&B) and even that tries my patience.

 

John is getting a taste of his own medicine from Kim, though.  I remember when he hounded her and Bob about being considerate of Andy's welfare and feelings during the Doug Cummings trial (so much so that he tried to take Andy to live with him until Andy put his foot down) and also when Andy was first discovered to be an alcoholic.  Kim does have a point-- why didn't John just explain to Duke that he had to sit down alone with Andy (and maybe include Margo) and try to explain as soon as he landed in Oakdale? I get that he was preoccupied with making Duke feel at home, but John totally dropped the ball where it concerned filling Andy in on things.

I think Duke's observation about John regretting not managing to hold onto Kim was fairly ironic.  I was too young to watch but from what my Mother told me of John's machinations to try to keep Kim tied to him-- if Duke only knew...

 

Da'aw, that Bryant is a scene stealer.  Craig getting all emotional all over again reading that letter from Sierra while an instrumental version of Suddenly plays in the background gave me the 'feels'.  I don't recognize that Craig in the '00s, I rebuke all that had to do with the Craig of ATWT's final decade.  And in my mind, Bryant never died, Tonio stole him.

 

That fight between Duke and Caleb seems a bit too choreographed.  I half expected John to enter singing 'So You Wanna Be A Boxer' from Bugsy Malone to Duke.  It seems like Caleb and Duke could actually be friends.  Guess not at this point.  

The way you feel about Caleb, NBA, is the way I felt about  Brian Bloom's Dusty.  I still can't believe Lily didn't choose him but Lily preferred guys who played games, which Dusty never could.

 

Love the chemistry between Marie Masters and Melanie Smith.  Emily is being downright cheeky at this point and I kinda like it.  With Marie and KMH, TPTB made Susan in later years into a more snarky version of all the things that people complain about with Lyla.  Susan spent too much time hand-wringing over Emily and then Allison.  These scenes reminded me of the more complex relationship that mother and daughter shared.

 

Tonio would never exist on today's soaps.  He'd be a straight up abusive villain with zero redeeming qualities-- so much so that we'd all be left wondering why anyone would ever want to sleep with him.  At least here, we get a sense that Tonio could at times be charismatic and at least in the beginning of a relationship, he always complimented that woman and made her feel like the most desireable woman on the planet-- until things turned bad.  And the fact that he seemingly never got over Sierra (although he could never be faithful to even her) shows that there is at least some humanity there.

Edited October 17, 2015 by DramatistDreamer

[NothinButAttitude]

@DramatistDreamer, so true. B&B is the only one that somewhat holds my interest even though it annoys me too. I'm slowly weening myself back into DAYS But I know once the 50th anniversary wears off, the show will revert back to nothingness. I can already tell that thanks to the casting choices they are making. But I'll remain optimistic for now. 

 

And I enjoyed reading your assessment on everything as it is so true for many of the points you made. Especially the one you made about Tonio! We'd never have a smart, sexy, suave villain nowadays that possessed humanity. Instead, we get stuck with sociopaths and megalomaniacs, who lose their shine after so long. 

 

Oh and I think you'll enjoy more of Marie Masters/Melanie Smith in the episode I just recently watched. They are the perfect mother/daughter pairing. I'm sure poor Susan felt it was karma from all her past sins and hell she raised early on by having to deal with Emily on regular. 

 

On to the newest episode....

 

Gosh I am falling more in love with HBS' version of Margo. There's something so broken about her that you just cannot help but wanna fix. Her having that slight breakdown broke my heart. Just makes me hate how much hardened they'd make Margo in the long haul. 

 

One thing I appreciate about this episode is how it exemplified how smart all the women are: Kim and Emily for instance. Like Barbara, those two figured out that Adam was Hal's, which was so refreshing. I feel like female characters have become so dumbed down in soaps over the last decade.

 

It was also hard watching Hal genuinely worry about Margo and Babs and Tom squirm because they knew the truth. This story is the perfect umbrella story. How a simple trope like an extramarital affair and love child slowly unreels into something that could be catastrophic and affect 90% of Oakdale. That's good storytelling. 

 

So weird seeing Charles Keating play a role other than Carl on Another World but he did have great chemistry with Liz Hubbard. But what was going on with John/Lucinda at this time? I need to go and find the previous week episode b/c I feel like a lot happened within that time. 

 

Ugh! These classic episodes are making me miss my Oakdale citizens all over again. I seriously feel like crying b/c it's so good....

[DramatistDreamer]

I never really made the leap to DAYS but back in the day, I had some friends who were avid viewers and they used to record DAYS and would take study breaks to watch and I found myself watching with them, it was during the Marlena possession days (lol).  Is it true that Sam Stowers is going to be coming on?  I loved her on the TOLN's AMC, so I may tune in to see what that's all about.

 

As for ATWT, were these the last days of HBS's Margo?  For some reason, this really felt like goodbye.  She's good here at really showing how frenetic and frazzled Margo had become over the deception but like you, I wished I could've seen the episodes leading up to her exit, so that I could've seen how exactly the tension built up.  I'm not sure why Lyla thought that Casey, Craig or even John could've convinced Margo and Tom not to go through with their plan,  Margo and Tom are grown ups with minds of their own.  I also would've like to see the episode where Kim interrogates Margo because it seems a bit more like something Lisa would've done, so I would have loved to see how Kim approached the subject.

It's a good thing that Lien has become more secure of her place in the family, otherwise she might have been thinking 'WTH, does this woman not like me?!

 

Tom looks like the next one who's gonna lose it, the way that everyone is asking him about Margo, one by one.

 

Boy, Cal sure got around in the times before Connor.  He's paired off with every woman in his age range and beyond!  I even saw his arm around Lyla.  Whoa, slow down there cowboy!

Andy and Duke look to be bonding quickly.  I guess those brotherly bonds are sure to be tested when Julie walks into town.

 

Is Emily trying to style herself more youthfully because Paul is her escort?  That hairstyle and that dress, she looks like she's headed for the school dance with Paul!  Maybe one of the many reasons Barbara was giving her the side eye at the Mona Lisa. 

 

Charles Keating truly was the Errol Flynn of Daytime dramas.  With Duncan gone, I guess they wanted a roguish charmer with a U.K. accent.  Down to the Import/Export business- isn't that what Duncan always claimed to do?  And what the heck is going on this time between John and Lucinda?  Are they separated or just playing games to make the other jealous?

 

I loved seeing all the roving and mingling at the Mona Lisa.  Oakdale was such a social place back then.  It had a great small town/city feel to it.  

 

Susan sometimes annoyed me with her tracking married and unavailable men, but one thing I've always respected about her was her regard for doctor/patient confidentiality and the Hippocratic Oath.  She took her duties seriously.  Her admonishment of Emily over Adam's paternity seems to demonstrate this. 

 

I loved Ann Sward and I liked Lyla but did she only have like 3 songs in her repertoire?  I was hoping for the shortened version of From Now On since we've heard it so many dang-on times.

 

The unfortunate side effect of having so many talented actors in such great storylines on ATWT during this decade is the unfortunate high turnover of actors.  Actors, after being nominated for awards and being involved in compelling storyline, felt confident in their abilities and wanted to test their talents elsewhere.  You can't really blame them but it's kind of sad how many key actors/characters woud be gone by the end of the 80s.  It kind of felt like things would never quite be the same with the feel of the show.

[NothinButAttitude]

I was confused about Cal too. B/c the previous episode we watched, he was snuggled up with Emma. So what happened within a week's time? Oh well. I guess Cal thought it was enough of him to spread his love around for everyone. 

 

And SOC states on Margo's profile that HBS left in November or December or '89, so we supposedly have more time with her. But a part of me is becoming upset over her nearing the end of her time on ATWT. Yes, I loved ED as Margo, but again, she became hardened and a harridan by the end of the show's run. 

 

And Oakdale was popping in that episode. I loved how everyone was out on the town and it wasn't for the big, cliche sweeps story. It was the total opposite. It was a bump in the road for the real reveal--Adam's paternity. I can't wait to see the fallout. 

 

I'm glad to hear that Susan took something serious and was honorable in some aspect of her life b/c she was all over the place when it came to love life. She really had no shame. No wonder why Allison and Emily were screw ups later on in life. 

 

re: Sal Stowers--she's already debuted on DAYS. We haven't seen much of her character except that she is a cop for Salem PD. That's it. I'm guessing we'll get more from her in due time. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by Nothin'ButAttitude

[BetterForgotten]

HBS was my favorite Margo and I never thought the character was the same after she left and never thought Dolan was great for the role. 

 

Speaking of 1989, wasn't this the year Robert Calhoun left as EP to become EP of GL or was that in 1988? When exactly did he leave and when did Laurence Caso join? Granted Marland was still there so the change in EP's wasn't glaring, but I know some who thought the show lost something when Calhoun left.

 

Calhoun was a terrific EP, and never gets the credit he richly deserves. 

Edited October 19, 2015 by BetterForgotten

[DRW50]

HBS nearly left in 1988, while she was pregnant (there were "goodbye Hilary" type articles in SOD), but Calhoun convinced her to stay as I think she had flexible hours or could bring her baby to work (did he play Adam?). When Calhoun left in 1989, Laurie Caso supposedly did not have the same flexibility toward HBS, and she left.

 

I thought Ellen was very good in her first run as Margo. It was when she came back that the character became so shrill and unlikeable to me - starting around that awful PTSD story in early 1996. 

 

I do think Calhoun and Marland were the better team, although what I've seen of 1988, 1989, and 1990 (Caso's first full year I guess) are probably the time of Marland's run I feel least involved with. In spite of the Carolyn Crawford stringalong and a few dud new characters, I think 1991 and 1992 were pretty good rebuilding years for the show, and 1993 could have been a good year too if so many terrible things hadn't happened offcamera.

[DramatistDreamer]

 

IMO, that baby did seem very attached to 'Margo'/HBS, so you know, I think you may be right.

 

1989 just seemed like a watershed year.  Many changes were afoot.  

I wouldn't be surprised if Calhoun left sometime between1988 or 1989.  I noticed one or two minor technical changes even with the episode I watched yesterday.  

The Mona Lisa usually featured that roving camera shot, the one that seems to be continuous, where it was done seemingly in one take with no cuts as the camera roved through the crowd at gatherings, particularly the Mona Lisa?  I noticed they no longer seemed to be doing this.  Those shots could be dazzling, especially with the ambience of the Mona Lisa, but I suppose they probably weren't the most cost effective.  

Something tells me that by fiscal year '90, P&G probably began paying more attention to the budget.  I don't think the real nickel and diming would truly take off in earnest for the next decade or so.

Edited October 19, 2015 by DramatistDreamer

[DRW50]

The January 1990 playlist I mentioned at the top of the previous page now has one or two more episodes in it.

[NothinButAttitude]

The episode after the infamous Brock/Emily tango:

OK. I am trying to figure out what is going on with Cal. He is all over the place. One episode, he's hugged up with Lisa. Next he's flirting with Susan and Ellen. Then he's kissing Emma. He is a real tumbleweed. Was Cal supposed to be an older playboy/lothario or did Marland not know where to go with him? But I do enjoy watching Emma do something more than standing in that kitchen fixing meals. I love seeing her have a life (and love interest) outside of the farm and her kids. Also, was Jared starting to form feelings for Emma too? Jesus, I need to dig deep online to find episodes to fill in the gaps. It's killing me!!!! 

 

Brock and Emily were HOT. Like smoking. P&G should've given Greg Beecroft and Melanie Smith the world remain in this role and in this pairing. Don't know if Marland intentionally meant to kill Brock but if so, he shouldn't've. Greg and Melanie had that draw that could've worked wonders. 

 

While on the subject of Greg Beecroft, why didn't another soap snag him after GH. I feel like he has a presence that is missing in daytime. Whether as Tony or Brock, he just exuded masculinity in his roles. But there was some underlying softness to his characters when they were paired with the right people. Gosh! This man is so sexy! Someone needs to woo him back on TV. I bet he is still a sexpot despite him being a little more seasoned now. (SN: I didn't know he had an equally hot brother, David, who acted in soaps throughout the 80s too. I need to look him up on his time on OLTL too.)

 

And Brock bidding on the line that Emily wanted and pissing her off was hilarious. But I bet he gives her the wardrobe as a gift to woo her. 

 

Loved the exchange between Lisa and Ellen. At any time, Lisa could make a situation about her, and make a dig at Ellen. But deep down, Lisa was telling Ellen some truth....

 

Poor Caleb. I felt so bad for him. That hunk of a man is one who should not be denied what he wants. Lily is a moron for not hooking up with Caleb. I don't know how many times I can say that. Ain't no way I would've settled for Derek over Caleb. But Lily's always been a dumb a** to me so.... (SN: I guess it's getting near the end of MB's time on the show. Hope I get to see HR's debut as Lily on the show)

 

So I guess we also saw in this episode the beginning of Lien/Duke impending romance and the early stages of Andy/Julie friendship. We are also seeing the early stages of the demise of Lucinda/John's marriage. Was their demise over Julie? Over Duke? Or over Lucinda blackmailing Babs previous weeks over Adam? Or was it a melange of things? 

[Soapsuds]

Melanie Smith said that Greg Beecroft was difficult to work with. That just shows you how good of an actress she was if she could pull off that chemistry with Greg. I wonder how Lisa Brown's experience with working with Greg on GL was?? I thought Greg looked better on GL. He was older when he hit ATWT and to me looked too thin and frail. I do agree they had great chemistry but at the time I had no idea MS was having a hard time working with him.

[NothinButAttitude]

I've remembered reading this numerous times but it just shows that the most hottest pairings on-screen typically can't stand each other off-screen. I wonder why Greg was so difficult though. 

 

[DramatistDreamer]

Wow, why did I not make the connection with Greg B. and Tony Reardon??!!  And I watched a slew of GL episodes from '84 on YT this summer!

 

I also thought that flashback between Ellie and Brock was pretty hot too!  And him pestering Ellie to tell him whether Craig was better than him in the sack...OMG!  I think that there could've been a lot of material for Brock left even if he and Emily broke up and later reconciled, there was also that back and forth with Ellie that could've provided lots of storyline complications down the road too.  I don't know whether the actor became too much but all throughout the '80s, ATWT was spoiled for talent, so perhaps the show felt that they didn't need to rely that much on a relatively new character?

 

Is Duke's freakin' jorts a recurring motif or something??  Why do those damn things keep showing up onscreen?  Lucinda needs to burn those suckers!  John looked pretty horrified too (LOL), probably more likely because he knows that Julie was likely there in their bed.

 

NBA, my theory on Cal is that it probably was Marland doing a bit of chem testing with the Cal character, to see who he'd fit with best maybe?  I also liked when they showed another side to Emma.  Although from the moment John and Lucinda were in their first scenes together, it was obvious they were great together (even the writing team pre-Marland had them go on a date at Diana's ), I did enjoy seeing a romantic, even whimsical side to Emma when she dated John.  She's a bit more fiery with Cal but I liked it as well as seeing that she had two possible suitors at the moment--it was a nice twist that John actually came away with the quilt at the auction ( and Lucinda throwing it off the bed after John put it on was funny!)

 

The reference to Dirty Dancing was very, eh, timely, I guess but the funny part was Tom and Margo tangoing through the crowd while Tom tried to explain to Bob and Kim that it wasn't as bad as it sounded and then Mac's suggestion that he might consider trying it out on Nancy and Bob's reponse about not wanting to end up having to put the both of them in traction was pretty funny.  That whole sequence was quick but so amusing, they all looked like they were having a blast.  Although I preferred HBS paired with Marx, if it were a choice between Scott Holmes and HBS or Holmes and Dolan, Holmes and HBS were far more interesting.

 

I see Roy's parents but just what the heck happened to Roy??

 

Maybe Lily is deliberately going for the guy who seems to be the exact opposite of all the guys she's usually attracted to.  Usually, those guys had rough and tumble and/or difficult childhoods in some way,  Derek seems like he always needs a soft place to land, even if it means stealing someone's feathered nest.

 

Paul's obvious infatuation with Emily kicks into high gear, with not-so-good repurcussions down the road.  One previous episode, I kind of got irritated with Lien getting upset with Paul's 'pulling away'.  Can Lien make up her mind?  First she complained about Paul smothering her with his attention and affection.  Now that she's supposedly with Andy (while eyeing Duke), she's upset that she and Paul aren't as close anymore.  Ugh.  Speaking of Andy...Andy gotta have it!  Julie's sexually liberated stance is started to, uh, 'awaken' Andy.  You can see him subtly trying to get Lien to be a bit more open, uh, too but Lien is having none of it.

 

Edited October 27, 2015 by DramatistDreamer

[NothinButAttitude]

I was wondering what happened to Roy too? I am getting this inkling feeling from recent episodes but he is paired with the domestic abuse victim, Amy, and then written off? Or does he and the rest of his family just fade away with Marland not addressing it? 

 

And Derek reminds me of Damian. Both exotic. Both tall, dark-haired, and handsome. Both have an air of mystery to them. Just makes you shake your head that Lily would continue to make the same mistakes down the road. 

 

I like Holmes/Smith opposite each other too. I loved her with Marx (from episodes I've seen featuring him), but Holmes just fit into the role of Tom like a glove. I am not ready for the episodes when Dolan comes to play Margo even though she was my Margo. Since I've been watching 80s episodes of ATWT, Smith has emerged as my favorite Margo. Makes me wish that she would've taken the role of Margo back instead of creating Nora on OLTL--a character I could not stand at times. 

 

The Lien/Andy/Duke/Julie dynamic is funny as hell. It's just like this cesspool of sexuality. While Lien is cold towards Andy, she quickly comes out of her shell with Duke. And Julie is all over the place. But much like Duke, she is refreshing. Both of them are vile characters on paper thanks to their overt sexuality but b/c the actors are so good and both smart alecks in a lot of their delivery, you can't help but like both characters. But I think Andy wants to poke Julie more than he does Lien. 

 

I didn't realize that Lucinda has tossed the quilt on the floor. I went back to watch and hollered. It does make sense. It's subtle things like that, that makes Marland a genius. 

 

Brock and Ellie ... bleh. I like Ellie as a character but Brock/Emily are EVERYTHING. I'm not liking in recent episodes of Marland tossing Brock back into Ellie's orbit. Emily is where the magic is at. And Paul and Emily disgust me. Paul's obsession with Emily at this point scares me. I hate how the dynamic would remain the same but flip in the last decade of the show where Emily would be the one pining over Paul when from watching MS Emily, she's just lick her wounds and move on.