I think anti-heroes are a trend, but I don't think they are the new norm by any means. Also, I think in the case of a show like Dexter what he's doing isn't really glorified. I know that's debatable, but Dexter does go through a lot of inner struggle and the character does "pay" for his actions. He knows that what he's doing is wrong, but he can't stop himself. Plus you have characters like Deb, Rita, Harry and Angel as the good guys for contrast.

Actually, so far I don't think I've seen a show that really glorifies the anti-hero. Even or the Sopranos, they would draw you in to a glamorized version of Tony and then slap you in the face nice and hard with how truly evil he was. Not to mention Dr. Malfie discussing Tony as a classic sociopath with her own shrink and how his love of animals and children is just a part of that and not a truly redeeming characteristic.

I don't know if the shows intend for these characters to be glorified but I often think a lot of critics and a lot of fans go that route. It makes them feel cool, or counterculture. I sometimes wondered if the Sopranos started to become more overt in showing people that Tony was not a good guy after that first season, where a lot of fans saw him as a generally nice guy who just had a shrewish wife and mother.

No, don't kid yourself. Your point and my points differ.

You're kidding yourself also if you are firm in your belief that for you it's about the characters, it is an illusion. They can't be great characters if they haven't proved themselves in a great story. Simple.

But it's OK. We can end it here.

Your attempts and condescension are laughable. I see right through you Sylph and have for a good long time, I'm just not as blunt about it as Vee. By now you should have figured out that you will never get under my skin. Keep trying though. I need a good laugh every now and again.

Now we can end it.

I don't know if the shows intend for these characters to be glorified but I often think a lot of critics and a lot of fans go that route. It makes them feel cool, or counterculture. I sometimes wondered if the Sopranos started to become more overt in showing people that Tony was not a good guy after that first season, where a lot of fans saw him as a generally nice guy who just had a shrewish wife and mother.

Good point Carl. One thing I have noticed on the message boards is that fans seem to hate the spouse of these characters, especially once they start to get in the way of the man's criminal behavior. That seems especially true with Breaking Bad's Walt/Skyler and Dexter/Rita. Somehow the woman is demonized because she questions the man's lies and wants some accountability, while the man is somehow rootable despite being a meth dealer or serial killer. Tony's mother was a straight up sociopath though. It's too bad the actress died because the Tony/Dr. Malfie scenes concerning her were fascinating to me.

Good point Carl. One thing I have noticed on the message boards is that fans seem to hate the spouse of these characters, especially once they start to get in the way of the man's criminal behavior. That seems especially true with Breaking Bad's Walt/Skyler and Dexter/Rita. Somehow the woman is demonized because she questions the man's lies and wants some accountability, while the man is somehow rootable despite being a meth dealer or serial killer. Tony's mother was a straight up sociopath though. It's too bad the actress died because the Tony/Dr. Malfie scenes concerning her were fascinating to me.

Yeah, Livia was a fascinating nightmare, and I think once Nancy Marchand became too ill to make regular appearances, and they brought in Tony's pointless sister, it started to move away from what made Tony interesting as a character.

You're right about fans hating the wife. On Nip/Tuck, when I could stomach the show, no matter how badly Sean or Christian behaved, Julia would get most of the loathing. On Rescue Me, the various women around Denis Leary would get more blame than his repulsive character ever would.

Edited May 18, 201015 yr by CarlD2

Your attempts and condescension are laughable. I see right through you Sylph and have for a good long time, I'm just not as blunt about it as Vee. By now you should have figured out that you will never get under my skin. Keep trying though. I need a good laugh every now and again.

Now we can end it.

I'm telling you, but I know you wouldn't listen. And as for "seeing right through me" — that's LMAO!

I don't know what is going on here because -- from these previews-- the show looks fabulous. James Wolk is already captivating.

Its much more Friday Night Lights feeling than Dallas, thats for sure.

Its much more Friday Night Lights feeling than Dallas, thats for sure.

Then they shouldn't call it a soap.

FNL also had better casting.

I don't know what is going on here because -- from these previews-- the show looks fabulous. James Wolk is already captivating.

Well, he is cute....

His next series will go through the roof.

I do think the show looks good. it just isnt really a primetime soap like they had said it was going to be.

I like the lead from the previews and his other wife already.

Its much more Friday Night Lights feeling than Dallas, thats for sure.

Haha I was coming on to say that! The handheld cameras, the way they're shooting it...

Then they shouldn't call it a soap.

Why, because FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS isn't a soap?

Well, he is cute....

His next series will go through the roof.

Cute and he looks like he can act.

I think he has a bright future ahead of him.

I do think the show looks good. it just isnt really a primetime soap like they had said it was going to be.

I like the lead from the previews and his other wife already.

Granted, the premise isn't 100% soap but that doesn't mean it isn't one. Perhaps--shock!--we actually get something new and imaginitive. Or at least something that tries to be. I guess the only way we'll know is when it premieres.

Which is when, exactly?

Why, because FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS isn't a soap?

I wouldn't say it is. It's definitely never been billed as one, which Lone Star has.

Why, because FRIDAY NIGHT LIGHTS isn't a soap?

No, it isnt.

Its a drama. Not a soap.

FNL is a soap in almost every sense of the word.

This seems sorta interesting. I'll watch for Adrianne, but if it's not keeping me, I'll have to let her go.

FNL is a soap in almost every sense of the word.

its much more Law & Order to me than soap opera.

with the coach and his wife as the main ppl and all the kids coming and going and rotating.