No--I do not think she wanted to marry Frey. I agree that, from her point of view, she did not deserve it. But, having just gone through what Catelyn did--everyone massacred, shot by an arrow, Talisa (whom she was clearly accepting) stabbed repeatedly, her son having one more chance--this was the ONE way, the only leverage she had. And, in her desperation, because that's what it was, she made an oath, which she didn't break. She only killed her after Robb was stabbed in front of her eyes. Sad as it was, it is completely understandable to me. This world is full of cruelty and, sometimes, the character we see as more noble than others are the ones who inflict that cruelty!

Did they say why they changed it from a son to a wife?

Even though I had read the book a while back, I've somehow managed to stay away from episode discussion and spoilers (though I had to be careful on facebook) until I could watch it tonight, so I apologize if I missed any discussion of this in the thread:

Cat's uncle wasn't at the wedding in the book, was he? (I don't remember.) It seemed odd making a point of him leaving to go pee--was he killed? Was he aware what was happening?

I understand why the scene is one that has divided people so strongly, as I think it did in the book too (though I found it even harder to *watch* it--and I had to double check that Robb's wife wasn't at the wedding in the book--I remember being sure she'd pop back up again in the series, though now I'm more doubtful though obviously the series will diverge more and more from future books--seeing her stabbed in the stomach was gut-wrenching.) Still, I found it very well done, even if I wish a few details had been detailed more--as mentioned, the eating of the bread and salt, or the fact about what the music being played was although I'm sure a lot of people got that, many probably also didn't.

I do get the reaction that Quartermaine here posted though--it does seem almost too cruel to have Arya so close on top of everything else and I get why that may give some viewers a sense that things really are hopeless--and I wish she had been able to save Robb's direwolf, that seems like ONE crumb they coulda thrown to fans (the tv series actually seemed to have kinda forgotten about the direwolves for a while--I can't remember if the book was similar.) I'm willing to go with it, and sorta expect that from the show, but, I can see the reverse POV.

OK, despite myself, and the fact I usually don' really care for memes, this really made me laugh:

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by EricMontreal22

Did they say why they changed it from a son to a wife?

They didn't. Most of the changes so far, if not all, have made sense to me (even if I don't always agree with it, I can see *why* it was done) but I can't really here. Unless it was because now that Robb's wife is killed as well it seemed more even handed? The show also (IIRC) makes it seem like he has no sons.

I thought it made sense to still have the Dany and other stories--and added to the shock of the ending, but I do see Sunspear's point that in the book it's more about this slow, awful sense of dread (although since Robb is not one of the point of view characters in the book it's a bit less of a surprise when he's killed--at least for me, something true of some other deaths like Renly's earlier on--on the show since you don't just see the action from a few characters perspectives it seems more surprising.)

Back to Dany, has anyone on here commented on how different Daario as played by Ed Skrein is from, at least how I saw him in the books? A flamboyant blue beard is now much more of a romance novel cover model--which is fine, I still find him both attractive and weirdly creepy, but considering reaction from fans about other changes, I don't think I've heard any complaining here.

I wondered if viewers were supposed to be more pleased at Cat getting some type of revenge before she died, and that they would not be as accepting if a boy was killed. TV in general places such a low value on the lives of women.

EricMontreal22, no way Blackfish knew what was about to happen. He would never betray his sister, nephews, and their banner men. I suspect that they just wanted to add to the drama of wedding by having him there and then have a lucky escape. We do know that Frey has at least two older sons since they are the ones who negotiated the marriage. One of them killed Cat.

I feel bad for Edmure. He gets stuck having to marry a Frey daughter because Robb breaks his oath. Edmure then gets lucky and gets to marry a lovey young Frey girl, only for him have to wake up the next day to the horror of learning that his family and their banner man have been slaughter. What a nightmare!

Watching this episode again didnt make it easier to handle. This will go down as one of the most shocking episode in TV history. The worst I've seen all year ( not quality but content.) I'm

mortified and still can't believe that happened. I fee cheated. We will never see Cat reunited with her kids, especially the girls. We will never get to see her confront Cersei. She will never make peace with Jon. We will never see Robb and Jon fight alongside each other. We will never see Robb dethrone Joffrey or get his vengeance. These were all moments I eagerly anticipated and it seems like a letdown that these were all killed this week

More shocking than Ned losing his head? I thought that was the most shocking that happened on this show, but I agree that Cat and Robb's murders were a close second. However, I think that The Walking Dead wins the prize for the most shocking episodes.

Edited June 4, 201312 yr by Ann_SS

This is cute:

http://www.buzzfeed.com/daves4/steps-to-get-over-your-game-of-thrones-sadness?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=buzzfeed

Interview with Richard Madden:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/02/robb-stark-wedding/

And Michelle Fairley, also addressing the death of the wife:

http://insidetv.ew.com/2013/06/03/catelyn-red-wedding/

I wondered if viewers were supposed to be more pleased at Cat getting some type of revenge before she died, and that they would not be as accepting if a boy was killed. TV in general places such a low value on the lives of women.

I think it's more that it would be too politically incorrect even for this show, if Cat killed a mentally challenged boy. Then having Lord Walder basically say that he didn't care if she killed a halfwit, since he had so many other sons and grandsons.

Here is the book chapter where the Red Wedding occurs, for those who are interested.

http://cdn1.vnetrix.com/A.Storm.of.Swords-Catelyn.pdf

More shocking than Ned losing his head? I thought that was the most shocking that happened on this show, but I agree that Cat and Robb's murders were a close second. However, I think that The Walking Dead wins the prize for the most shocking episodes.

Yep more shocking than that. Ned being killed off was shocking but he had doom looming over his head (didn't realize it would be literally). He was captured and things weren't working out his way. Here though I did not expect any of that at all. They were celebrating a wedding and were happy and partying. The massacre seemed so abrupt. I honestly did not think Cat would be killed. After Robb was, I thought Cat would be spared and kept as a prisoner, but nope that was the end of her. It was like one blow after the other. Definetly the series most shocking moment yet

I wondered if viewers were supposed to be more pleased at Cat getting some type of revenge before she died, and that they would not be as accepting if a boy was killed. TV in general places such a low value on the lives of women.

WHile I do think Thrones' has a few gender issues, I wouldn't go that far in this case--I would chalk it up to other things, like we had already seen in previous seasons his young wife and daughters but nothing of sons, etc. I also think Cat's motivation was deeper than revenge--or more complex, as the actrress says in her interview. .

Yep more shocking than that. Ned being killed off was shocking but he had doom looming over his head (didn't realize it would be literally). He was captured and things weren't working out his way. Here though I did not expect any of that at all. They were celebrating a wedding and were happy and partying. The massacre seemed so abrupt. I honestly did not think Cat would be killed. After Robb was, I thought Cat would be spared and kept as a prisoner, but nope that was the end of her. It was like one blow after the other. Definetly the series most shocking moment yet

Agreed. I think also, while at this point in the show fans should know nobody is safe, I think it did seem like Robb was safe, at least for a while yet, Cat perhaps more s, etc--so I agree with CHeap, that it seems more shocking (Peple also have had more time invested in Robb, even if Ned wasprobably the more dynamic character.)

As someone who hasn't read a shred of the books or any spoilers whatsoever, it always been clear to me that Jon Snow is the male lead hero and Dany the main heroine / most important characters. Everyone other person, maybe sans Arya, comes off as a supporting player, especially the second Ned was killed. That my perspective as only a watched of the TV version, anyway.

I think it's been more than clear too, but I had read some of the books before the series started. But one thing, as has been pointed out, Jon and Dany re the two sorta on either end of the outside--seemingly fighting for a greatergod han all the in-wars and back and forth fighting between the Westeros groups.

Ironic that so many critics think both fo these actors are the worst in the show (something I don't really agree with, I think they are both more than fine for their roles.)