Y&R: Episode discussion, week of January 4

[DeeeDee]

Indeed.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

God, why is Chance such a lame and boring character? This storyline has FAIL written all over it.

Chance should have been in Lily and Colleen's age group, though that age group is in pretty horrible condition on this show anyway, not that the other age groups are in any better condition though...

[DeeeDee]

Y&R doesn't do heroes.

Also TPTB don't write male characters as anything but armpieces for overrated actresses & their entitled fanbases.

[Chris B]

Sometimes I giggle when Not!Malcolm speaks. You can tell he's acting and it's distracting. Not feeling him at all honestly. I'm trying, but no. And he's just not attractive so there is no shallow love. I'm sorry. Fail on all counts. Another thing, PLEASE. PLEASE don't put Neil with SpermPig. I'm begging. She hasn't been right since she returned to Genoa City. Whatever magic Brad Bell sprinkled on her to make her so fabulous on B&B needs to be brought back. I feel nothing for her. She could leave tomorrow and I wouldn't care.

[DeeeDee]

Grambo ruined her.

Poor thing.

[Y&RWorldTurner]

Y&R is such a sleeping pill, damn, could this show be anymore boring and awfully planned?

Did anyone listen to DC's Best and Worst of '09 podcast? They really ripped Y&R the most in the Worst categories, and deservedly so. I don't normally agree with everything they say, but they were spot on with their Y&R criticisms. Y&R is beyond awful.

Though, I certainly do not agree with their Billy Miller love...

http://daytimeconfidential.com/2010/01/05/dc-501-best-and-worst-of-2009

[MoTheGreat]

& that's where it should have stayed. They shouldn't have added Summer either but since they did. Summer shouldn't have been Nick kid. Now we have to deal with them co parenting. I just got sick thinking about it.

[classicmoment]

I loved that they had her go over the edge ike that. I disagree on that not being classic Phyllis, that insecure, witty, resentment of the "woman" more than the man is classic Phyllis to me. It maybe pathetic in it's own right but I think that was a pretty correct characterization. Phyllis has her faults but she was never written as a dumb one, there is being in love, there's being crazy (doing the same thing so many times & expecting different results) and then there is stupid. Knowing this man will continue to hurt you with his words and his actions but finding the justification in some sort of consumate affair you two had when his daughter died. This has been Nick and Phyllis' dialogue since December 2008

Phyllis "You love Sharon too"

Nick "I love you both"

action- kiss & makeup

Phyllis "Does it bother you to see her with him"

Nick "yes it does"

action_ kiss and makeup

Nick sleeps with Sharon, wants to rescue Sharon, is bothered by what-ever man or men is in Sharon life at the time of seeing them brings it into his and Phyllis' sham of a marriage he is confronted admits to it and is forgiven. This is tired story beat. the viewers feel more tired of it than any of the characters are written to please let it go. Free Phyllis please. I agree though that Phyllis should always be the underdog that is where the character is better used.

I've never seen anything interesting in this "couple" other than their affair, which is where their relationship should have stayed. Jack Smith should have been allowed to develop their relationship and ultimately end it. I think the Latham transition at the time badly handled their development, and this current writing regime has certainly done them no good.

Hallelujah, I have stated many times on different boards that throughout the story Sharon has been , and was always meant to be an extention of Nick

[MarkH]

I obviously disagree on the interest value of Nick and Phyllis, probably because I more enjoy seeing people triumph over insecurity and anxiety and find a place of health. That "recovery" tale is one that I always find compelling, and Stafford embodies that in the way she plays Phyllis. Phyllis is much less damaged than she once was...but her feral/wounded self is always just below the surface.

But what made me react to this quote was that I think we could basically substitute "Victor" "Nikki" and "Ashley" into this (at least from the 1980s), and we wouldn't have that different of a story. Victor kept running to rescue Ashley (or Hope), but he always came home to Nikki in the end. Since that triangle was the "money-story" on Y&R (and to some extent still could), I think I don't understand the widespread dislike for the Nick-Phyllis-Sharon tale. I immediately agree that this triangle is not always as well acted or as emotionally compelling...but for me both Nick-and-Sharon and Nick-and-Phyllis are poignant, history-rich couplings, and because I see merit in both pairings, the triangle continues to have legs for me.

I don't agree about Phyllis being the underdog. I would like to see her as the FORMER underdog, still with her insecurities just beneath the surface (always fearful of rejection), but now as a mentor to a new underdog (I'd pick Amber, personally).

Yes, I truly think she always was. She started as Nick's girlfriend...through all the romantic vacillations with Matt Clark, and then with getting married, and then with being surprised by Cassie, and then with Grace and on and on. Sharon never had any independent career or friends until LML, right? It was LML (and I guess Jack Smith, with the Cameron Kirsten story) who finally let Sharon drive some of her own story.

But given that Sharon was always on the arms of a man, and always in some romantic/domestic conundrum, I find the place she is at now to be a very logical extension of where she has always been. Many of you speak of Sharon as "slut" or "ruined", but I find Sharon's place in life to be a very plausible evolution of a woman who built her life around her teenage lover and young family--and then really had nothing else in her life when that imploded.

One of the things I love, love, love about the death of Cassie is that it continues to play out EVERY SINGLE DAY. Where Sharon is now can be traced back to Cassie's death--straight and true.

I think it is a real indictment of the current regime (and LML) that no death since (and there have been plenty) has had the same resonance or lasting impact. And no--John/Brad/Colleen don't count.

[DRW50]

I'm not even sure if Sharon can be traced back to the continuity of a few months ago. All the time spent on how this Shick miracle baby was going to be a blessing to their lives, and was sent from Cassie, and then when the baby "dies", Sharon barely grieves.

I think Sharon just goes whichever way the plot tells her to go. They said Brad's death made her steal and sleep around. Then they said it was based on her teenage years. Then they said it was based on Cassie. I think they just enjoy the idea of Sharon having sex with all these different men and being the lost soul Nick has to save.

[classicmoment]

I think you give the character of Nick way too much credit in the Nick/Phyllis dynamic. When I see Nick, Sharon and Phyllis in a scene together even when all three actors are on their mark Phyllis usually comes off like the adult in a frustrating situation with other people's children who are disobedient or havn't a clue where she has to gain a momentum of patience . Even when Phyllis is being the bad one I USUALLY feel this way (though I must say when it's just Stafford and Case I usually feel a bit differently I guess that's another discussion). The thing is I don't think Nick healed Phyllis and maybe that thought process is what fuels this misogyny. I think Phyllis is written as looking to Nick for comfort and refuge but keeps getting her heart broken. She will never be 100% comfortable unil she has all of him, she thought that would happen by now it still hasn't and it won't not because of Sharon but because of Nick he is smitten. I always thought Victor's draw with Ashley was always about power in the disguise of a hero complex. I think with Nick, the character, literally doesn't know what he'll do without his grip on Sharon. He's co-dependent

If she's not the underdog the only other route to go is heroine, LML tried that almost forced it; it doesn't work

Sharon was more supporting LML may have had her own vision for who Sharon is but Sharon propped Phick, Brad's aghast story then somehow ended up in Jack's realm. The best thing LML did for Sharon was make her and Dru best friends

[MarkH]

I find this very, very interesting. I do agree on your take regarding Ashley--but what made this triangle more perverse was that Victor was Nikki's hero too! For Nikki, I could understand--she didn't really have a daddy and her family was incestuously mixed up. But Ashley? What about her upbringing made her so needy and fragile? Initially they pinned it on Dina's abandonment and the Brent Davis thing...but that still doesn't explain why she needed a "strong man".

Co-dependency is a fascinating term...but I still see a link to Victor's behavior. When he is away from these women (at least historically), he was still constantly interfering in their lives. One think I don't like about the current darker incarnation of TGVN is that they have kind of lost the somewhat more benign (albeit equally vexing) element of him as "meddler"...controlling situations by buying out wardrobes, flying in specialists, getting rid of undesired romantic partners for his children, etc. I sort of view Nick's clinging to Sharon as a direct offshoot of the way Victor and Nikki cling to one another. He's simply doing what he learned to do.

I am appalled, though, at how they dropped the 'best-friend' thing. It would have been MUCH MORE NATURAL for Sharon to have been a constant presence in the Winters' lives...and to have that turn into a romantic thing with Neil. Sharon should be a constant fixture in Lily's hospital room. They totally dropped all this.

[Chris B]

They value Sharon far too much to pair her with non-white Neil. I thought the two showed smoking chemistry post-Dru's death, but I never expected to see it utilized. I guarentee you that story would've been better than anything with Jack/Sharon, Billy/Sharon, Brad/Sharon or this mess with Adam.

[MarkH]

So, I hear where you are coming from. But they (Bill Bell!) paired their "prime jewel" Heather Tom with Kristoff St. John.

And then Jack Smith put Phyllis with Damon.

So I think you're really talking -- specifically -- about the LML/MAB regimes, right?

[classicmoment]

Agreed!