Ways to save OLTL

[marceline]

I'm hardly saying that firing D&D is the secret to DAYS success. I'm simply noting that it didn't destroy the show as some predicted. If anything DAYS shows that it's not all about one vet. You cite some perfect examples of how the show has used its whole canvas. Couldn't OLTL do the same.

For the record, I don't think they should fire ES. OLTL has so many far bigger problems. That's the reason they are where they are. I'm just pointing out that if you really want to keep your soap on the air, you might want to hold some of those cows a little less sacred.

[You're Soaking in it]

Okay, I've been trying to figure out how to comment, since we are referring to daytime vets... Let's just say that I totally know you didn't mean it like THAT.

I think the show is great the way it is. Any serious change or "shake-up" to One Life would just be gunning-the-gas toward cancellation, and probably cause the show to end on a bad note. Think of it as if ABC cancelled All My Children today: The show has been killing itself in INCREMENTS throughout the past several years... It's as if it loses an organ and a limb every so often. It's sad to watch. If it were cancelled today, honestly, it would be equivelant to a mercy killing or an assisted-suicide.

OLTL doesn't "feel" like it's dying. It still lives and thrives. I think most viewers would like to see it do that all the way to its final days. Knee-jerk moves to prolong its run will probably prove damaging. I don't think we should gamble with the chance of it morphing it into some soul-less shell just to be put out of its misery. However, whenever, OLTL goes out, it should go out with dignity - and its current course is set just fine.

[rhinohide]

I hate the "true fans" argument. There are true fans who think waking Evangeline will save the show, while other true fans would likely tune out if that happens. There are true fans that think killing off John McBain or Natalie or Viki or . . . . while there are true fans who would consider any of those losses as the straw that broke the camel's back and that would be the end for them. There in lies the problem in my opinion. The OLTL audience has become segmented and you can't please them all. I admit I only watch for a few characters and I'm not interested in the least in many others. That includes Kyle and Fish, but I recognize that those characters have brought in new viewers. While I believe paring the cast is a necessity more because it is so bloated it's an impossible task to write for all the characters, I believe it's more important to draw all the key characters into stories together and improve cast integration. Bo, Nora, Clint, Nigel, Kim, Matthew, Destiny, Danielle, Tea and Todd are a good example of how this should be done and what I would like to see more of.

[marceline]

No I didn't mean it like that but I thought if I said "no pun intended" that would actually make it seem like that's how I meant it so I just left it up to the reader.

[Melroser]

I understand the 'true fans' remark, but i never mentioned it in terms of characters. My reference was fans of the show as a whole. I have never been able to figure out how "fans" can justify wanting a show (OL or any other daytime show) to go down in the ratings because of a certain writer/producer. Nor can i even fathom the idea of wanting a show to be cancelled. Wanting a show to fail (cancellation is a failure in my opinion) while saying you are a fan is an oxymoron to me.

Do fans of sports teams start hoping for their favorite teams to lose just because they don't like a new manager choice? Do fans of a particular author hope they never write again because their latest book may not be as good as the previous ones? Why do soap opera 'fans' think it's o.k. to want their shows to fail because they do not agree with the current situations?

I say "true fans" want their shows to go on. They stick through the bad times and the good. "Fair weather fans" want their shows to fail just because they think they can do better.

I have no problem with any fans stating their opinions on any subject or person that they choose to, but wanting shows to fail is not going to help the industry.

[marceline]

The "true fans" BS is a natural product of a passionate niche community. "True" Trekkers didn't like the Star Trek movie because it reset history. "True" Buffy fans would never accept Buffy with anybody but Angel or Spike depending on your ship. (Although oddly enough most agree that Riley sucked.) True Law & Order fans quit when Jerry Orbach left. True speedskating fans hate what Stephen Colbert is doing to the sport (or so I read.)

As for true fans not wanting their shows to fail, I feel like we've been down this road a million times but I believe hanging on to these shows has destroyed the genre and I believe letting these zombie shows die their overdue deaths will make way for new dramas. Especially when the numbers show that fewer and fewer people are watching.

[Eric83]

Responding to what IMA said about shoving vets to the side, RS would still be there as Dorian. I consider Kassie DePavia a vet. Bring back Viki's sons. Clint is a veteran character. Natalie and Jessica in front burner rivalry storylines keep Viki present somewhat. Instead of firing Bo and Nora put them on recurring. ABC will never try to save this show, when push comes to shove this may happen. ES shouldnt be fired as long as if its in the best interest of the show.

[JackPeyton]

DAYS didnt suffer a loss when they fired D. Hall for the fact that she wasnt the star of the show at the time, and aside from a brief lead storyline for a few months when she was the SSK, hadnt been since the mid/late 90's. DAYS had already moved Alison Sweeney into the star spot and Marlena was a supporting player. So when she was gone, there was no hole, no void. I know for her fans there was, i mean dont get me wrong i miss Marlena because she was one of my faves, but the character was done.

Y&R cant lose Braden because so much of the show revolves around him. he is the main star on that show and half the cast is tied to him and him alone. Viki cant leave lanview right now, and the shoe couldnt fire ES and have a days like thing happen where the show goes up and getts better. because Erika is OLTL, much more than any star on any other show is the center of their show. OLTL has no other character to take that void. I think having Jessica's life mirror Viki;s life is a great thing and kind of hope they keep it going, however the reason it works is because she is there for jess. I just cant picture OLTL doing well without Viki. It would be a HUGE loss.

[Vee]

You're not getting it. You seem to think OLTL NEEDS a big budget bloodbath like Days. It doesn't. It hasn't. And there's no reason to do it. For lack of necessity, the idea of cutting Viki, Bo or Nora is idiotic and suicidal.

Let it go.

[Eric83]

Not trying to be rude but you don't get what I'm saying. I understand OLTL isn't in a budget crisis. If rumors are true than the show is a goner. Cutting costs would make it more profitable, even though it probably rakes in more than AMC/GH. My ideas will most likely never become reality. I was just throwing that out there. I have nothing to let go. I don't spend time fantasizing about ES being fired. She will probably be with OLTL to the end and there's nothing wrong with that.

[Steve]

Okay, it's time to lighten this thread up!

How about having Dorian seduce Starr's boyfriend in a cougar storyline a la Erica/Ryan on AMC and when Starr sees them in bed, she develops a split personality in the vein of Viki and her daughters, Megan & Jessica.

[Khan]

Forget Starr: Dorian in bed w/ either Cole or Schuyler would make me develop a split personality.

[evermore]

On the contrary, we DO get what you're saying; perhaps you're not expressing yourself clearly, because your logic as you have described it makes no sense "a-tall," as Viki might say.

If the show is already under budget, as you say it is, THE BUDGET IS NOT THE PROBLEM. Cutting costs, therefore, WILL NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. Figuring out what exactly "THE PROBLEM" is, and fixing it, IS the answer.

Whatever OLTL's "problem" is, it's a matter of opinion, and I suspect every poster on this board has very different ideas about what the show's problems(s) is(are)-- and how to fix it all. Some might blame Frons's meddling, some blame Carlivati's writing, others might blame particular storylines or front-burner characters/relationships that are not really engaging viewers. There are many, many possibilities, and I hope the show is considering all of them. I don't want One Life to Live to follow GL and ATWT into cancellation.

At the same time, it also seems to me that firing Deidre Hall and Drake Hogestyn in order to free up more budget dollars--allowing Corday or whoever to make the show more profitable behind the scenes--is NOT what has led to the show's recent increase in ratings. I don't watch Days, but I doubt fans are watching the show because it's more profitable now that Deidre and Drake are gone. It seems to me that more fans are probably watching Days now because Gary Tomlin and Dena Higley are finally telling stories that the audience finds engaging. (Had they found a way to do this while they worked together on OLTL, the show might not be in the dire straits it now finds itself.)

[DRW50]

Higley and Tomlin didn't work together at OLTL.

There's debate over whether OLTL has problems or whether all the soaps are just dying (I guess there's that debate for almost every soap), but beyond some of the basic storytelling flaws (lack of payoff, poorly constructed stories, unsympathetic leading men, lack of strong romances on the frontburner), I think one of the biggest long term missteps might have been the damage done or marginalization of characters who were set up in the 90s to take over the show. Joey, Kevin, Rachel, Todd, Blair, Marty, among others. Other characters who could have been prominent are gone (Tina and Cord and the kids; Cassie; all of the Woleks) or dead (Duke, Drew). Jessica is still there but is very diluted. The lack of core names means filler characters like Tea or Rex, with very forced ties to the canvas, are pushed and pushed.

[IMissAremid]

YES! Absolutely THIS. Now to me, I am only a viewer of OLTL going back to 2007, so while I personally find the soap fairly enjoyable a lot of the time I don't know that I would feel that way if my first time tuning in to this soap was 10 or 15 or 25 years ago.

I mean the families are just so nonexistent now. You have a few Buchanans and honorary Bukes and a few Cramers and an honorary Cramer woman in Langston and I guess you have two Lords in Viki and Todd, but that seems like it's about it. Like you said, the Woleks disappeared. Even smaller scale families introduced in the last 10-15 years have practically disappeared with just one Vega brother and one Williamson sister and one McBain left. The show killed off its popular male heartthrobs (and their popular romances with the show's main young heroines) when Nash and Jared kicked the bucket back to back the last two years. And then there are all these family-less connection-less people with no historical tether to the canvas that Ron has floating around Llanview (Kish, Kim, Delfina, Brody, Nick, Amelia, Markko, etc...) Would it kill the show to make one of these folks a Wolek or some other long-lost Lord or something to beef up a core family a little bit? Then you have all the recasts of characters who like you mentioned had been set up in the past to take things over (Todd, Rachel, Jessica) and that probably has caused the show to lose steam with longtime viewers and the recasts make it harder for people who maybe connected with these characters in the past to reconnect them now years later that they may be trying to tune in again.

With DAYS, even as they trimmed away Drake and Deidre and Steven Nichols and Mary Beth Evans as cost-cutting (which I would argue by accident also helped the show creatively if only because it forced the show's hand in shrinking the canvas and tightening its stories without these rudderless supercouples just floating around in limbo) it had the luxury of other vets to bring to the forefront and casting coups it could make to keep longtime faves front and center. Now maybe that's more important in the case of a soap like DAYS that has a much larger pool of one-time past DAYS watchers to try and reach out to and hook again than OLTL might have, but still... there's got to be a reason why OLTL doesn't seem to be at the bottom of the barrel in women 18-34, yet when you break it out to women 18-49 then OLTL does TERRIBLE. For some reason or other, OLTL is just not bringing in the 35-49-year-old women it should. I think it's because of the way the 30+ cast has been decimated.

Here's a comparison between DAYS and OLTL in terms of character/actor longevity:

ACTORS DATING BACK TO 1970s and earlier

ONE LIFE - ERIKA SLEZAK (1971), ROBIN STRASSER (1979), ROBERT S. WOODS (1979)

DAYS - SUZANNE ROGERS (1973), JOSH TAYLOR (1977 as Chris Kositchek and 1997 as current character), BILL HAYES and SUSAN SEAFORTH HAYES (1970 and 1968... used infrequently on holidays), FRANCES REID (1965... likely will not appear again)

ACTORS DATING BACK TO 1980s

ONE LIFE - ROSCOE BORN (1985), PATRICIA ELLIOT (1987)

DAYS - JAMES REYNOLDS (1981), JOSEPH MASCOLO (1982), PEGGY McKAY (1983), PETER RECKELL (1983), KRISTIAN ALFONSO (1983), RENEE JONES (1983 as Nikki Wade and 1993 as current character), JOHN ANISTON (1985), WALLY KURTH (1987)

ACTORS DATING BACK TO 1990s

ONE LIFE - PETER BARLETT (1991), PAMELA PAYTON-WRIGHT (1991), HILLARY B. SMITH (1992), SUSAN HASKELL (1992), KASSIE De PAVIA (1993), TUC WATKINS (1994), FLORENZIA LOZANO (1997), KRISTEN ALDERSON (1998), DAVID FUMERO (1998)

DAYS OF OUR LIVES - CRYSTAL CHAPPELL (1990), LOUISE SOREL (1992), ALISON SWEENEY (1993), BRYAN DATILLO (1993), LAUREN KOSLOW (1996), ARIANNE ZUCKER (1998), JAY KENNETH JOHNSON (1999), NADIA BJORLIN (1999)

ACTORS DATING BACK TO 2000s

OLTL - 21 actors on contract (keep in mind this does not include characters like Roxy, Fish, Destiny, etc... who are on a lot)

DAYS - 12 actors on contract