Y&R: Week of November 23 Discussion

[MarkH]

My sentiments exactly. She was perfect as a pampered Parisian princess...but it turns out that was the extent of her range. Lily has moved on, but CK has been incapable of doing so.

[Chris B]

I wish we could get a new HW before they saddle Lily down with a child so young. I feel like the role will be completely ruined at that point. Right now you can recast and find a better love interest, but giving her Cane's child will tie her to that loser forever. I know people will laugh at me, but I actually like Denise Vasi and wouldn't mind her as Lily. I think viewers would still recognize that it is Lily and I do think she's been improving and has the potential to be a great actress. I could see her flourishing on Y&R.

Right now I'm finished catching up with Y&R. Since I was up early cooking Thanksgiving dinner, I watched five episodes back to back. It was painful. It's not that any storyline is terrible, but something about the show is off. The performances are uniformly flat, the show looks bland as hell and it's very dull. I can't even root for my favorite characters like Jill or Nina. Everything is falling flat for me. It seems like something central is missing to the show. Maybe it's because all the current stories are being told like "B" stories. I don't see a major storyline that they can market. Victor and Nikki aren't the end all, but their absence is a part of what's hurting Y&R. It just seems so odd that both are truly gone. Right now we're watching a Y&R that thinks they truly aren't coming back. I can't believe that this is what they're hitting us with. If Victor and Nikki were truly gone I don't think the show could recover. It's clear watching the show. Jack, Jill, Kay and all the other vets have minimized so much that they can't carry the show right now.

I truly can't think of one thing that I enjoyed or that intrigued me. I will say that watching the preview for todays flashback episode scared me. I forgot how heavy Sheila was featured in Michael and Lauren's wedding (along with Tom) so maybe it's clear that Sheila is Ryder and possibly Daisy's mother. That isn't going to help matters either. With Taylor being alive, Sheila could've been a free woman when she returned to Y&R. They could've semi-redeemed her like they did on B&B where she was a major character for several years. In a more sane format, Sheila could've done wonders for Y&R and would've brought ratings. When her initial return went so sour, they should've never considered doing the Phyllis/Sheila story. To bring her back for a third sure-to-flop story is just ridiculous. I also can't think of a reasonable explanation for her now being so powerful and rich. Also, didn't she have two children on B&B? One with James and one with Massimo was it? At what point in the timeline was she supposed to have had Ryder and possibly Daisy? Will her other two children even be mentioned? Does Maria Bell even know she has two other children? Things like this boggle the story down from the beginning which already makes it a failure.

Oh! In closing I did remember one thing I enjoyed: Phillip's exit! I won't go into it too much because I know it's so last week for all of you. But Phillip stole my heart at "Thosh daaaaaaam. cattlerusslers. I'm sorry, but I did grow to love Thom in spite of his faults. There was a lovable quality to him and I love the sound of his voice. It's a shame he was made gay because the chemistry with Tricia Cast pours off the screen. They had potential to be such a cute couple this go around. The type of lighthearted couple in love that this show needs. It makes me sad to think he's gone. Why couldn't he just recur like Nina? It seems like they're making a statement sending him off. Sad. Now Jill has no kids on canvas.

[DeeeDee]

...Except Lily never was.

[DeeeDee]

Pretty much

Except Billy.

[Chris B]

Billy and Cane are not Jill's sons! I won't accept that. Billy doesn't deserve Jill as a mother so I don't consider him to be Jill's child. Last week when he came to Kay's to see Mac it drove me nuts to here him go, "Well is Mom here?" Bitch don't act like you came to see Jill! If she was there you'd either ignore her or treat her poorly. I hate Billy Abbott. I also don't like how they've retconed things to say he was shipped off to boarding school and Jill abandoned him. IIRC, she was planning on fighting for custody and Victor threatened her if she didn't allow John to have custody. This led to Jill be a suspect in his shooting. Then Billy and John moved to New York where he remained until he returned as a teen. I don't think that makes Jill some evil, terrible parent. She simply didn't get custody. Guess what? It happens. He was raised by a good man and I'm sure had many visits with Jill off screen. I look at Billy as yet another way to demonize Jill so I just hate him.

I'd actually go as far as to say that I prefer Cane to Billy. And I like roaches more than I like Cane so....

[DRW50]

Yes. I actually end up dreading any scene between Billy and Jill. I think they just took the most one-dimensional view of their relationship, from the era when Jill was supposed to be the harridan who had brought Billy a bad childhood and was scheming to keep him away from Mackenzie, and worked from there. It was supposed to be a way to generate pity for Billy and to show us that Cane is her favorite, but as with a lot of their writing choices for Billy, I think it fell flat, because it just fell on our heads as soon as he came back to the show, and it was the same stuff we have seen regurgitated in other Billy stories. If it becomes about everyone judging Billy and Billy against the world and all the rest, then his relationships all cease to have any value.

As for Lily's cancer, yes, CK is the main reason for the story's failure, but I can't say the writing was there. They glossed over most of the early stages so they could make this into a Lane reunion. Most of her actual illness has been done in a Candy Land style, and more focus has gone to her babymaker than to her as a person. Once again, the woman and her feelings are an afterthought to plot and false drama.

[DeeeDee]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Their relationship had a LOT more depth with DT's Billy.

Billy Miller's Billy is so shallow it hurts.

Again there was much more depth with DT's Billy & his relationship to Jill.

They BOTH gave as good as they got with the other & it wasn't a agenda driven relationship like Billy Miller's Billy has with Jill.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves

[DeeeDee]

And that's NEVER how their relationship was.

Jill & Billy had problems LONG before his relationship with Mackenzie.

The main issue being Jill was Jill & Billy was Billy.

It's only been since Maria wanted to shove her agendas down the audience throat that their relationship became so lopsided.

They gave the character a HYSTERECTOMY...FOR CANE.

Ugh.

[Chris B]

Lily is just a nightmare and I won't comment on Thanksgiving because I'm sure I'll offend people if I say what truly was going through my head. I've noticed they've been putting Ashley and Neil in a lot of scenes together and I don't think I've ever seen two people with less chemistry. They don't even work as friends or business associates. Talk about snoozeworthy! And now that I'm thinking, how fucked up did Victoria look? She hasn't gained a lot of weight, I can't tell she's pregnant, but she looks so tore up. Looks aside, I do look forward to her return post maternity leave.

I truly believe David Tom would be killer as Billy today. He could play the smarmy business man and womanizer but he had a lot of heart too. Of course the writing is garbage, but I think at his core he has more to work with than Billy Miller. Some of his quirks are so amateurish and that's pretty much all we're left with until the writing gets better. Right now you can truly see who can act and who can't. I figured out what's wrong with Y&R, it feels like a bloody writers strike! The characters are running wild depending on the actors to make them interesting and a lot of them are failing.

I'm glad James Franco didn't choose Y&R to guest on. The press would have a field day with him in scenes with Lily, Cane, Chance and Saint!Mac. It would ruin Y&R's reputation. Their under 40 crowd is pretty bad now.

[JimTolkien]

I actually have liked this week just for the crazy family themes and the use of the veterans and seeing the children. I think in reality there are a lot of people who are not going anywhere for these holidays or not spending that much anyway so it ties into most likely what a lot of audiences at home could be feeling at the moment - being with the family, whether they are peaceful or in disarray.

My thinking is that the writers as well as the audience just want to finish this year and start anew - I know that is how I am feeling. I however don't have much confidence in them or I should say what I have seen so far does not instill confidence that this writing team have what it takes. They have powerful actors on their show and not a whole lot of powerful stories to go along with it. But I do see foundations being laid for perhaps things to get somewhat better for next year and some potential bombshells..well as good as these writers can write it. I am looking forward to Victor and Nikki's return hopefully for Christmas but I haven't really missed them because I know they are coming back. And when they come back, we get a temporary lift, then what? Do the writers have hot stories for them to play...who knows.

Adam & Sharon just need to die for me...I can't stand the Sharon character but no way would I wish a babykilling, fetus burning, baby stealing, taking advantage of a mentally ill and a gay HUMAN BEING on her - don't care how soapy it sounds. (going w/MarkH on this one, hope she finds out and shoots Adam ). It's obvious SC is not into the pairing, but she'd better cut that BS out because no one at a high level is in any mood right now for this. Her body language gives it away - can't say I blame her. But it's time for her to step out of her comfort zone, do something different and get her own "lightning in a bottle" pairing. She has been on the show long enough to know how to do this. MM is trying way too hard and that comes out onscreen for me so I am not buying what the writers are trying to sell me YET. Lily & Cane, I would like them to die too but they probably won't because there as many people who love them as well as hate them, but hey, I have a remote.

Paul/Nina/Jill stuff, I found rather entertaining, hope I get to see more. I love seeing more screentime for Paul, a s/l will work too. All in all I think the show seems to be taking a laidback approach for the rest of the year but this entire show needs a facelift. And I loved Bill Bell but I am sick to death of hearing about this is not the Bill Bell-style. We the longtime fans are never going to see that ever again because the writers can't do it...and from the looks of things, it appears that CBS/Sony wants something fresh too mixed in with a bit of the old.

So for this viewer, this year has been a disaster so I am just going to look forward to 2010 and see if these writers can do any better.

[DeeeDee]

[classicmoment]

One dimensional explains this team's work

[DRW50]

I think if Franco had guest starred on Y&R he would have been running some sort of Fight Club competition where Billy, Nick, Adam, and Cane all bump each other's chests, flare their nostrils in fury, see who can turn red the fastest, and finally, whip them out to see who is the ultimate dick of Genoa City. The winner is Victor, via satellite from the wellness center. Somewhere, Jack weeps.

[MarkH]

So when did today's Classic Episode originally air? It truly was the last gasp of the old regime, eh?

Supervising Producer

Edward Scott

Written By

Kay Alden

John F. Smith

Janice Ferri

James Houghton

Natalie Minardi Slater

Sara Bibel (I assume she was the BDW?)

Linda Schreiber (I assume he was the SW?)

Executive Consultant

Lynn Marie Latham

Story Consultant

Sally Sussman Morina

Coordinating Producer

John Fisher

Director

Kathryn Foster

Co-Executive Producer

John F. Smith

It is interesting to me that I didn't feel much emotional connection to this episode...maybe because it was just a standard wedding episode with a psycho (or two). The things that resonated the best for me:

- Joanna and Lauren

- Lauren reading Michael's letter to her at the altar

I also loved Jill and Eric Forrester sitting together, and found myself wishing that there was a way they could explored a pairing between those two.

Why wasn't Kay at this wedding?

I found myself missing Rachel Kimsey's Mac. She was so sweet and perky. I never minded her, although I acknowledge she was a reinvention of Mac. But for all her sweetness, she wasn't the saccharine diabetes inducing of CKLily.

I guess it made sense that the Winters weren't there, because they still held a grudge against Kevin and Lauren/Michael (for their defense of Kevin)...his statuatory rape and Chlamydia to Lily wasn't such a distant event back then.

Seeing John reminded me how pointless his death was. Seeing Gloria -- whom I loved then -- irritated me now because she was such a drama queen (even then).

I wished I could see Phyllis and Nick, and Nick pushing Phyllis into the wall. Alas, this rebroadcast ended here.

[lovely_m]

The one thing I noticed was that this wedding made the Lane,Chilly, and Phick weddings look really horrible and cheap in comparison.

In the previews for this episode I thought RK!Mac looked like AL!Colleen.