On 5/27/2024 at 4:19 PM, P.J. said:

*sigh* I just rewatched Billy and Vanessa's second wedding. While it's wonderful, it's also kind of sad--like the end of a book. William Roerick is obviously not well. Larry Gates' appearances have dwindled, and they and Vince Williams die in the next couple of years. Jordan gets fired. 

While I know there's some good stuff coming up before Reva's return knocks the show back into "Reva 24/7" mode, I'm reluctant to watch. 

Do you know when Roerick and Gates last appeared ? I also wonder when they were taken off contract.

On 5/27/2024 at 7:19 AM, P.J. said:

William Roerick is obviously not well. Larry Gates' appearances have dwindled, and they and Vince Williams die in the next couple of years.

They all passed relatively close to each other: William Roerick in November 1995. Larry Gates in December 1996. Vince Williams in January 1997.

Edited June 1, 20241 yr by kalbir

On 5/28/2024 at 10:07 PM, P.J. said:

Nola/Buzz had something to do with Buzz falling down stairs and getting amnesia. That is all I wish to recall, I just remember it was HORRID. Unpopular opinion---I was never a fan of Nola's fantasies. As a tween I thought they were boring, as an adult they just seem like an overblown gimmick.

I can't even with Matt (or Great Value Boy Toy, as I like to call him.) I know people liked him and Vanessa, and I even understand why Vanessa had to move on from Billy. But some skank ass ex-gigolo? GROAN. 

Nola having anything to do with Buzz is just nasty....I can see them as sparring partners/friends, with Nola bringing Buzzard down to earth and vice versa, but sad sack Nola stalking him? And yes, I thought the Nola fantasy got old when Long was writing them and they should have gone away, with Nola being an adult woman.

I never bought Matt as a Reardon..for such a long running character, he was totally underwritten, what did he want in life besides Vanessa..he never seemed especially close or have chemistry with Bridget, Nola or Ed...he just was this fantasy figure for older women watching? The worst part is that Van became a sighing sap with him..they looked like they were going to light a fire under her when she went back to work at Spaulding, and Matt was panting after Beth, but this was Rauch so the older woman had to be pathetic instead of Van just icing Beth to death.

Edited June 1, 20241 yr by Mitch64

1 hour ago, FrenchFan said:

Do you know when Roerick and Gates last appeared ? I also wonder when they were taken off contract.

This reminds me - did your photo stop appearing in the closing credits when you were taken off contract but were still used? I thought I remembered still seeing them (or Roerick at least) in the closing credits for a while. Roerick still appeared fairly often until his death (he died very suddenly - a car crash). Gates rarely appeared those last few years.

Looking at his Wiki I see that Roerick was good friends with EM Forster. I never knew that.

Edited June 1, 20241 yr by DRW50

The photos in the closing credits were just for contract players IIRC.

4 hours ago, DRW50 said:

This reminds me - did your photo stop appearing in the closing credits when you were taken off contract but were still used? I thought I remembered still seeing them (or Roerick at least) in the closing credits for a while. Roerick still appeared fairly often until his death (he died very suddenly - a car crash). Gates rarely appeared those last few years.

Looking at his Wiki I see that Roerick was good friends with EM Forster. I never knew that.

I didn't realize Roerick died in a car crash. Interesting to learn. I always thought it was an age-related ailment that caused him to die.

23 hours ago, FrenchFan said:

Do you know when Roerick and Gates last appeared ? I also wonder when they were taken off contract.

Soapcentral lists Roerick's last appearance on 12/12/95, about two weeks after his death. Gates, 10/19/95, (d. 12/16/96) HB dies 9/11/97. Hamp's last airdate is in '95. (God, he died at 39)

 

22 hours ago, Mitch64 said:

,

I never bought Matt as a Reardon..for such a long running character, he was totally underwritten, what did he want in life besides Vanessa..he never seemed especially close or have chemistry with Bridget, Nola or Ed...he just was this fantasy figure for older women watching? The worst part is that Van became a sighing sap with him..they looked like they were going to light a fire under her when she went back to work at Spaulding, and Matt was panting after Beth, but this was Rauch so the older woman had to be pathetic instead of Van just icing Beth to death.

I think you've nailed it---Matt is the Reardon equivalent of Frank Cooper. One of those "shut up and look pretty" characters.  He's a less "hillbilly"/noncorporate version of Billy, meant to keep Vanessa from being too snobby. He doesn't really stand on his own. Even in '07, after he screws Dinah, I have no idea why he hangs around town, doing essentially nothing.

I did just catch clips of Vanessa tearing a strip off Vicky Spaulding towards the end of the clone story. YIKES, she is out for blood. While the stuff with Matt is pabulum, Vanessa is definitely less deferential in corporate stories. Although some of that's probably a consequence recasting both Alex and Alan. 

 

21 hours ago, DRW50 said:

This reminds me - did your photo stop appearing in the closing credits when you were taken off contract but were still used? I thought I remembered still seeing them (or Roerick at least) in the closing credits for a while. Roerick still appeared fairly often until his death (he died very suddenly - a car crash). Gates rarely appeared those last few years.

I think it depended. Henry and HB were both integral to core families, so I think they were both still in the crawl (or some version of it). (Sometimes they were very lazy about the credits.) But someone like Carey Cromwell (Wanda) wasn't, at least that I recall. OTOH, Jordan was out of the credits and edited out of the opening in about two weeks.

Thanks for the clarification !

2 hours ago, P.J. said:

Soapcentral lists Roerick's last appearance on 12/12/95, about two weeks after his death. Gates, 10/19/95, (d. 12/16/96) HB dies 9/11/97. Hamp's last airdate is in '95. (God, he died at 39)

I think you've nailed it---Matt is the Reardon equivalent of Frank Cooper. One of those "shut up and look pretty" characters.  He's a less "hillbilly"/noncorporate version of Billy, meant to keep Vanessa from being too snobby. He doesn't really stand on his own. Even in '07, after he screws Dinah, I have no idea why he hangs around town, doing essentially nothing.

I did just catch clips of Vanessa tearing a strip off Vicky Spaulding towards the end of the clone story. YIKES, she is out for blood. While the stuff with Matt is pabulum, Vanessa is definitely less deferential in corporate stories. Although some of that's probably a consequence recasting both Alex and Alan. 

I think it depended. Henry and HB were both integral to core families, so I think they were both still in the crawl (or some version of it). (Sometimes they were very lazy about the credits.) But someone like Carey Cromwell (Wanda) wasn't, at least that I recall. OTOH, Jordan was out of the credits and edited out of the opening in about two weeks.

Yes, I don't remember Wanda being in the credits - if she was it wasn't for long.

Williams had such a striking credits shot, which made his absence stand out even more.

Vanessa vs Vicky was yet another story of that period which seemed to mostly get dropped. A real waste. 

To me Matt was worse than Frank because even if he was never the most interesting part of the Coopers, I did believe Frank's relationships with his family (especially Harley in her first stint). Matt had scenes with Bridget, and Nola, but I just never believed them as a family unit.

IIRC Matt was initially intended as a love interest for Lucy (was it Lucy?) and the fling with Vanessa only became a real relationship because of vocal audience support (just ask Paul Rauch about that - if you want his spirit haunting you, anyway). I imagine that's one of the reasons why their relationship never felt overly genuine. 

The scraps I've seen of them around the late '00s do feel like a more natural path of where their relationship would have gone rather than just a passive Vanessa wandering around in oversized pajama sets.

1 hour ago, DRW50 said:

IIRC Matt was initially intended as a love interest for Lucy (was it Lucy?) and the fling with Vanessa only became a real relationship because of vocal audience support (just ask Paul Rauch about that - if you want his spirit haunting you, anyway). I imagine that's one of the reasons why their relationship never felt overly genuine. 

Yeah, I'm currently making my way through August '94 and there's been a ton of Matt/Lucy scenes as the show chem tests them (spoiler: I don't see it, but I'm also in general not a fan of the trope where potential love interests start out by spending every scene passionately arguing about trivial things). Kind of seems like they're toying with the idea of trying Vanessa with Josh.

40 minutes ago, Kane said:

Yeah, I'm currently making my way through August '94 and there's been a ton of Matt/Lucy scenes as the show chem tests them (spoiler: I don't see it, but I'm also in general not a fan of the trope where potential love interests start out by spending every scene passionately arguing about trivial things). Kind of seems like they're toying with the idea of trying Vanessa with Josh.

Yes, I think that was the original plan for Vanessa and Josh (and there was setup with Peter's custody battle). 

I don't think Lucy had much chemistry with anyone, although I grew to accept her over time. 

Wow....really Lucy and Matt? *boggled* 

I haven't wanted to say it, but I thought they were toying with the idea of Josh/Vanessa going way back to Reva's post-partum. It was just odd that Reva's whacked out hormonal brain went there, when she'd never, ever, ever really seen Vanessa as more than a boring blueblood priss. Then Vanessa steps up around Josh's house, and Josh is angry with Billy over jilting Vanessa...if Robert Newman hadn't left....who knows. 

Then it's really coincidental that Josh returns when the Peter custody fight starts looming. It was sure to cause some kind of friction for Billy/Vanessa.

 

2 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Wow....really Lucy and Matt? *boggled* 

I haven't wanted to say it, but I thought they were toying with the idea of Josh/Vanessa going way back to Reva's post-partum. It was just odd that Reva's whacked out hormonal brain went there, when she'd never, ever, ever really seen Vanessa as more than a boring blueblood priss. Then Vanessa steps up around Josh's house, and Josh is angry with Billy over jilting Vanessa...if Robert Newman hadn't left....who knows. 

Then it's really coincidental that Josh returns when the Peter custody fight starts looming. It was sure to cause some kind of friction for Billy/Vanessa.

A Billy/Vanessa/Josh/Tangie quad could have been plausible. I do wonder how different Josh's stories might have been if he and Tangie hadn't been such a flop. The idea of Kim Zimmer and Marcy Walker facing off is compelling, although Cynthia Watros probably never would have been hired in that universe.

 

11 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

A Billy/Vanessa/Josh/Tangie quad could have been plausible. I do wonder how different Josh's stories might have been if he and Tangie hadn't been such a flop. The idea of Kim Zimmer and Marcy Walker facing off is compelling, although Cynthia Watros probably never would have been hired in that universe.

JFP hiring Marcy Walker to play Tangie on GL was like DAYS hiring Genie Francis to play Diana Colville.  In both cases, you have a producer/show hiring a "name" without giving them a character to play.  (GH hiring Denise Alexander away from DAYS to play Lesley might also qualify, except, in that case, GH eventually figured out what to do with her).

I'm not kidding, though, when I say watching MW try mightily to make Tangie work was one of the most frustrating things I've ever witnessed in all my years of soaps watching.  When they threw Tangie at Ron Raines' Alan, I was pretty much done with her.

Edited June 3, 20241 yr by Khan

Just now, Khan said:

JFP hiring MW

There were four Friend of Jill incidents: Vincent Irizarry, Justin Deas, Marcy Walker, Marj Dusay. Also Mark Derwin became a Friend of Jill. I've pointed this out before but I was really surprised Alan was not recast w/ a Friend of Jill.