4 minutes ago, Vee said:

After watching a fair amount of summer '84 and seeing a ton of Beth/Lujack (and hearing many, many strange muzak version of the Footloose classic "Almost Paradise") I looked up the Locher Room interview with Vincent Irizarry and Judi Evans. Irizarry tells an anecdote about how the day he got hired on the show, he was still working at Joe Allen's restaurant and was introduced to a customer, an actress who had been on GL for years but was only recently fired and was none too happy to meet him. I wonder who it was.

Could have been a number of women as so many were going at that point (Elvera Roussel,  Kathleen Cullen, etc.). 

6 minutes ago, DRW50 said:

Could have been a number of women as so many were going at that point (Elvera Roussel,  Kathleen Cullen, etc.). 

That's what I figured.

There is a beautiful series of very quiet mood moments at the end of this episode (6/14/1984) that is nothing so bombastic as what you might've expected from an '80s soap reinventing itself for high-energy pop and camp. They cut from Mike Bauer giving a toast at Alex's dinner (Don Stewart was so good at this stuff, even if I can never quite get his already-immortal appearance on the recent MST3K film "Carnival Magic" out of my mind again) 'to the future' and show Warren Andrews' incredibly crestfallen face - clearly thinking of his recently-dead wife - to a completely silent sequence of the 'young' crew (Jim, Hilary, Fletcher, Annabelle and the insufferable Tony) passing a bottle of wine around the fire at the newlyweds' new house and cuddling up together as the camera roves around them with a very tinny radio faintly playing Lionel Richie's "All Night Long". Then finally they cut to Vanessa and Reva at Cross Creek, awkwardly sitting together waiting for Billy to leave Vanessa there and go home to care for the newly-crippled Josh, again with no music. And the instant Billy leaves they lock eyes and Reva just says 'you're pregnant, aren't you?' Great stuff.

Edited February 24, 20232 yr by Vee

I will say I think it was more Kobe that was the problem then Long.  Hope, Amanda, and Hilary were written quite a bit before they were ushered out suddenly.

In regards to the Holly/Roger connection when they returned... I do know Curlee had convinced Long to bring them back..but it wasn't her that wrote the Adam Malik story nor his storming Philip/Blake's wedding (she didn't like it...but it fit with Roger).

And I'll be honest that there was a change in writing for Holly once Long left the show..that in some ways hindered the character.  

I was surprised she was less neurotic, more assertive in 1989/90.  After 1991, she became more neurotic and kind of a victim.  Not sure if that was due to Curlee and co..or if that was JFP's influence.

Edited February 24, 20232 yr by victoria foxton

7 hours ago, Soaplovers said:

I was surprised she was less neurotic, more assertive in 1989/90.  After 1991, she became more neurotic and kind of a victim.  Not sure if that was due to Curlee and co..or if that was JFP's influence.

Based on the writing for heroines on JFP's soaps, I'd put it more on her. 

22 hours ago, Vee said:

I've really loved Harley Jane Kozak, both in movies and in her soap roles I've seen. I would've liked to see psychic Annabelle appear again maybe for an anniversary to give hints at future story, like the psychic did on Loving years later. Her love interest (Tony?) is intolerable though.

That would have been a good use of Annabelle, who seemed like one of those characters who mostly just served plot anyway. 

Tony was often unwatchable to me under Marland. He hasn't been as bad in later material for me but I think there's just something to Greg Beecroft which is difficult (that may be why he worked so well as Brock on ATWT, even if he was apparently a pain offcamera).

On 2/24/2023 at 12:24 AM, DRW50 said:

I think Cindy Pickett gave so much inner life to Jackie that no one else could entirely reach. I can see why GL cut their losses with Carrie Mowery, but there was no reason why Jackie couldn't have returned in later years (we know why she, along with Hope and Elizabeth, did not, of course).

Tom O'Rourke was a good actor and a very good looking and charismatic man. I think he could have easily stayed on through the mid-late '80s at least. I have a feeling this exit, similar to Don Stewart's, was down to backstage problems, and similar to Lemay and Rauch's folly in dealing with people they found tiresome, those at P&G, Kobe, etc. figured who needs 'em. 

I also wonder if these exits were just to drive home that Philip was a Spaulding, which may have made sense for a time, but robbed him of much of his inner conflict (with just Ross left to remind him of his other side).

In Christopher Schemering's book about the show, Gail Kobe acknowledges that writing out core characters (as Kobe and Long had done) was extremely unpopular with the fans, and that viewers should not be surprised to see Mike and Hope written back into the story. Of course, they never were. Soap Opera Digest did a survey about TGL after the 1980s overhaul, and respondents were very vocal about their displeasure over losing so many important, beloved characters. (Viewers were particularly furious over losing the Bauers).  So TPTB were well aware of how damaging the cast purge had been to the show, but did little to remedy the situation until the eventual return of Christina as Blake, and Holly and Roger. (IMHO, it was not enough; we still needed Mike and Hope, but at least it was something.)

Peter Simon once spoke about the mass firings, and said that of all the vets who got axed at that time, Tom O'Rourke was the last to go, and on his last day, he ranted and raved on the way out the door. As you say, Carl, O'Rourke was attractive, charismatic and a good actor who could have easily remained on the series. Recasting Justin with the wildly inappropriate Christopher Pennock was a bust. Neither Pennock nor Peter Simon exuded the appeal that O'Rourke and Mart Hulswit had, and TGL suffered for it. And hiring Toby Poser as Amanda, and making her Alan's sister (which was historically impossible from what had played out on screen)? EGADS! Soooooooo wrong. 

Hope Y'All Enjoy It!

On 2/25/2023 at 7:12 PM, Joseph said:

Hope Y'All Enjoy It!

I'm so old I remember seeing that in real time..when watching GL and getting high after class was part of a daily routine (ohhh. a much more simple world.)   So the writing for BevAlex wasn't ALWAYS great..as she comes off as a moron here...(as if she wouldn't know Alan even masked up...) Calla..no one gives a [!@#$%^&*] about Jesse...Alan is about to come back...and as if Van would ever been intimidated by boring Calla...though I love Kimmer's hair here (she was a freaking knock out during this time...) and India gloating in the background...The Alan returned story just sucked as there was no Mike, Hope, there was Faux Ed, and Faux Phillip..the only one we cared about who was impacted was Alex..(and maybe Van and Henry.) Would have made much more sense to have brought back Mike earlier and have him with Alex, and Hope with Ross when the reveal came. 

I thought I recognized the music in some of these late '80s eps and I was right - GL was using music cues from Tangerine Dream's famous score for Risky Business. It fits very well.

I hate the way veteran characters and actors were removed and history removed. I loved the character of Sara Mcintire, a strong professional woman. She was good at helping people with their problems but had a horrible track record with her choices of husbands

I think a lot of the actors like Millete Alexander  had had enough of soap acting. She retired from acting and focused  on her passion of classical piano,

Pat Bruder talks more of her theater projects than her time on ATWT as Ellen

Loved Barbara Berger. At least TPTB realized how important veteran actors are after the fan outcry over the death of Beatrice on AW played by Berger

 

It was good that the Bauer legacy was used with Mary Stuart as Meta Bauer  Although probably never referenced I’ve seen synopses where this character was very prominent in 50s and 60s storylines 

 

24 minutes ago, TVFAN1144 said:

Beatrice on AW played by Berger

You mean Bridget. Berger & David Hedison were two over 50 yr old actors that JFP fired. I have curated a YouTube list of nothing but scenes with Bridget & Vicky talking, Berger & Heche. Anyone who wants a copy can msg me. I really missed Bridget. 

38 minutes ago, TVFAN1144 said:

I hate the way veteran characters and actors were removed and history removed. I loved the character of Sara Mcintire, a strong professional woman. She was good at helping people with their problems but had a horrible track record with her choices of husbands

I think a lot of the actors like Millete Alexander  had had enough of soap acting. She retired from acting and focused  on her passion of classical piano,

Pat Bruder talks more of her theater projects than her time on ATWT as Ellen

Loved Barbara Berger. At least TPTB realized how important veteran actors are after the fan outcry over the death of Beatrice on AW played by Berger

 

It was good that the Bauer legacy was used with Mary Stuart as Meta Bauer  Although probably never referenced I’ve seen synopses where this character was very prominent in 50s and 60s storylines 

 

Millette had been in soaps since the 50's and probably realized that at her age and the way soaps were going there would be little chance of landing another contract role.

In the SFT thread I posted an interview with Val Dufour upon his departure in 79 where he hoped for another role based on working for P&G all those years. That wasn't going to happen, but maybe he thought he'd give it a shot.

Millette was lucky to have another career to fall back on, but it must have been hard for some actors to suddenly be out of work and maybe finding it hard financially also.

And Meta/Mary should have come on in 87 as soon as Search was cancelled as part of rebuilding the Bauers on GL.

I know that Dr Sara was gone by late 82/early 83... but was there still a place for her on the canvas other then being the local talk to, or the resident therapist?

Other then her previous romantic ties to Justin, I could only see her being a talk to... though I do imagine she would have a field day having Reva, Roxie, and India as patients.

I think changes truly needed to be done by 1983 because a lot of the stories/characters started by the Dobson's were starting to become stale by 1983... just wish that the balance nicely established in 1983 and 1984 were maintained instead of having to endue rough transition years circa 1985 to 1987/8.

Sara came on in 67 so had agood run. By 82, she had been married 4 times. Two of her husbands had tried to kill her . Her true love Joe died of a heart attack and she'd been married off to Adam Thorpe so there wasn't much story left.

It would have been nice to see her as the go to psychologist and talk to  but Millette probably wasn't interested in recurring and neither was GL at the time.

I've always been fascinated by Millette Alexander's storied soap past, especially on EON. I think Sara is a strong foundational character who I enjoy watching. Do I think she needed to still be a contract regular deep into the '80s? No. But I would've liked to see her recur longer. Did they indicate she and Adam were still together when he returned later?