6 minutes ago, robbwolff said:

I can see David O'Brien from The Doctors as a possible Ed.

Sadly, he passed away from AIDs in 1989. On the SAME DAY as Bernau. Wow.

Edited 5 hours ago5 hr by DeeVee

Re: 1994 Alan casting, I'm pretty sure Jill had a friend in mind for Alan but the friend was either not interested or not available.

I ruled out Nicolas Coster as he was on As the World Turns then and Jed Allan as he was recurring on 90210 then, so the friend I think Jill wanted was either Roscoe Born or Lane Davies.

I'm in late August 1992 and Bev is at her tail end. I'm trying to decide if I want to skip forward a month or so to get past this period where a lot of the table is being set but knowing mostly what's coming it's a bit of a slog to view.

I'm a bit curious how this Eleni/Frank/AM story was received at the time but I find how they decided to frame it both fairly unpleasant to watch while also boring at the same time somehow. I feel like the more interesting choice would've been to go ahead and have AM choose Eleni over Spaulding like he was going to pre-Nick reveal to give some actual stakes to the Musette reappearance/reveal where maybe there was a chance for the marriage but for this initial deceit. I feel like the desire to keep Frank/Eleni "good" versus AM being clearly "bad" as far as toeing the adultery/affair line wins out over interesting story. (In fairness I think knowing what happens later makes this story annoying to watch because Frank takes about 30 seconds of supposed neglect before he starts trusting Julie over Eleni, but I do't understand having this story not really be a triangle for a pretty long period. They are also spending a lot of time on Fletcher/Vanessa/Billy (the show is still trying to convince us Vanessa actually wants to be with Fletcher over Billy-this is just before Nadine's "pregnancy") and Julie/Dylan Innocent Young Love that is not exactly thrilling viewing.

I just had to watch Vanessa grovel to Fletcher about how she really wants to be with him and definitely knows she doesn't want to marry Billy again (haha).

Also had another Zas appreciation moment: They had that bad Roger backup player in for an episode that had plotting with both Jenna and AM and wow those expository scheming scenes are boring when an actor can't convey well that they're not saying what they really mean. What's great about Zas is the audience knows when he's conning someone but he's so charming that you don't think anyone who believes him is a moron. (here's usually also JUST enough truth/insight into the other character mixed in with Roger that you can see how he's so convincing, but you can have the same lines with a different actor and it just falls flat.

Before I discovered the vault I had decided to start my revisit/gap filling in fall 1993 and went through 1997 before going back to July 1990, so I know there's some stuff coming up I want to watch where the ground is being set: The Lillian/Ed affair/fallout(I'm post blackout kiss with Ed just letting this build for an amazingly long period), Crazy Eve, finally figuring out Gilly's bad history with Roger (not asking-I'm still watching), Bridget in the attic, etc. I'm interested in Buzz's original arrival and was actually fairly surprised how close together Buzz/Lucy showed up because there was already surprisingly little tension with Buzz by the time I picked up in fall 1993. Nadine is objectively terrible throughout my 1990-1992 viewing, but how Frank and Harley throw her briefer period of leaving in her face constantly versus how it seems like water under the bridge pretty fast for Buzz making them think he was dead for most of their lives is something else.

1 hour ago, GL95 said:

I'm in late August 1992 and Bev is at her tail end. I'm trying to decide if I want to skip forward a month or so to get past this period where a lot of the table is being set but knowing mostly what's coming it's a bit of a slog to view.

As a Billy/Vanessa fan, I wouldn't skip it, but that's me.

2 hours ago, kalbir said:

Re: 1994 Alan casting, I'm pretty sure Jill had a friend in mind for Alan but the friend was either not interested or not available.

I ruled out Nicolas Coster as he was on As the World Turns then and Jed Allan as he was recurring on 90210 then, so the friend I think Jill wanted was either Roscoe Born or Lane Davies.

I kind of debate throwing John McCook's name out in any of the fantasy casting talk. He's too young to be Mike, and I'm not sure he can project the kind of inner struggle that defined Ed. And he's arguably prettier than half the female cast. lol.

The reason I chose Rod Arrants as a possible recast was because there's something in his facial expressions that is a throwback to Robert Gentry.

Gordon Thompson may have worked as Alan, but then he may have camped it up.

Steve Carlson is another actor with an Ed Bauer look. I have not seen enough of his work to judge if he would have worked.

We should do a thread on Fantasy Casting for all the soaps. Like inventing a Canadian cousin for Vicki on OLTL played by Anne Murray.....🤣

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by SoapDope78

I'm back and finally caught up! 😃

I’m up to February 01, 1999.

Hart arrives at Cross Creek to see Cassie and the baby. He bonds with the baby and tells Cassie that Dinah is a sick woman, tells her everything she’s done, and says he’s not with her. He asks Cassie to be with him so they can finally all be a family and she agrees. They (finally) decide to name their baby and after a few bad names, Cassie suggests Roger (his dad) and Joshua (to make Reva happy, blah), and Hart agrees to RJ for short. They leave Cross Creek and head back home to SF and Hart’s farm. While at the farm, Hart proposes to Cassie and she says yes! He also offers her the deed to the farm as his wedding gift to her, which seems impulsive to me. Dinah then comes by with a gift and tries to get them to believe she wants to move on, but she doesn’t seem very stable. She quietly asks if she can hold the baby, which Cassie agrees to and then Dinah leaves.

Matt and Vanessa are having dinner when Ross and India walk in on a date. Vanessa gets upset because Ross was supposed to be with Dinah to make sure she wouldn’t do something crazy, and Ross says she wanted to go to work at WSPR (which we know isn’t true). They argue a bit, like mature adults which is refreshing, and then India tells Vanessa she should worry about her own life. Ross says he’ll watch after Dinah more closely, just as Dinah walks in. They talk and Dinah seemingly will behave going forward.

Annie is going stir crazy in the locked attic, but Alan keeps reminding her that it’s the only way to keep her safe for now. Meanwhile, Frank shows up looking for Alan, but Alex answers the door and says Alan isn’t available. Frank says he needs to talk to Alan ASAP because Teri has come out of her coma and identified the real Annie. Alex plays along to protect Alan as Frank leaves, and she bolts upstairs to tell Alan/Annie. She pleads with Alan to ditch Annie and save himself, but Annie begs him too and Alan chooses Annie while kicking Alex out of the room. As Alan and Annie kiss, she steals the keys out of his pocket.

Blake tells Ben about kicking Holly out if she’s not going to support her dating him, and he is happy to hear that she put him first. He promises to protect her and they kiss, as Holly watches from the window outside. Ben surprises her with a trip to Paris. An excited Blake starts packing, while Alan calls Ben to come over. He offers Ben to be his attorney again and while they negotiate, Alex barges in saying Annie has escaped, not knowing that Ben is there to hear her. Ben now has the upperhand knowing that Annie is alive, but says the case is impossible to win and he’s not interested. Ben then taunts Alan about how soon he’ll go to prison, so Alan finally caves and offers him head of Lewis Oil if he remains quiet and Ben takes their case (not really sure how he can offer Lewis, but we’ll see). Alan writes up the deal which includes a stipulation that if Ben can’t save Annie, then the deal is off.

Meanwhile, assuming Blake isn’t home, a ski-masked Holly enters Blake’s house and takes their family photo and starts ripping up Blake’s dress she packed for Paris. She’s screaming to herself that Blake can’t treat her kids this way and live a life with Ben. Blake then walks in on her and they wrestle to the ground, with Holly holding up the scissors as if she might stab Blake, but Holly is able to knock Blake out instead and run away (what the actual hell is wrong with Holly haha). While Holly is about to leave, now unmasked, Blake wakes up and sees that the intruder is Holly and can’t believe it! Blake demands to know what’s happening and Holly said she did it to warn her. Blake then finds a Hey Diddle Diddle nursery rhyme about her being with Ben and she finally realizes her mother is the Nursery Rhyme Stalker! Holly tells Blake she wanted to be a better mother to Meg than she was to her, and the other mothers in town took their kids for granted and they need to learn how lucky they were to have their children. Blake realizes she also went after Ben and tried to kill him. Ben then walks in and wants to know why her dress is all cut up and Blake covers for Holly, even though it’s clear she’s really shaken up. Unfortunately Blake now has to cancel the Paris trip to take care of Holly, which upsets Ben. Blake begs Ben that if she tells him something, he won’t say anything other than to help her mother, which he agrees to. She shows him the nursery rhyme and he realizes she’s the Stalker and she tried to kill him before. He promises to help her, she leaves to take a bath and Ben says to himself that he will find a way to put Holly away for good!

Reva tells the real Teri all about Annie taking over her life (but not the plastic surgery part), which upsets Teri, who doesn’t trust Reva given what Annie told her long ago about her. Annie, who escaped from the attic, sneaks into the hospital and visits the real Teri (donning a mole on her face like Teri). She actually tells her the full truth, but says she was supposed to be in a coma her whole life so she did all of this as to not ruin the chance to continue on her legacy. But Annie then gets mean and injects her with a sedative. Seeing Reva coming, Annie hides Teri’s body and pretends to be Teri, saying she now believes Reva and will help her find Annie. Reva notices an earring on the floor and a napkin with Annie’s favorite nail polish stuffed in a drawer and gets suspicious. Annie then refers to Josh as Joshua and Reva asks how she knows she calls him Joshua, and says “it’s great to see you again Annie”! Reva starts to pin her down to the bed, calls for help and Josh and Alan run in to pull her off Annie. Rick then shows up while Josh finds the real Teri passed out in a bed behind the curtain next to them. The group sees both Teri and Annie, complete clones (omg, we have clones again haha!), and Annie is pleading to everyone that she’s the real Teri. Frank finally comes in and says he’ll take both their fingerprints to determine who is who, but then a desperate Annie pleads for Alan to do something, which blows her cover. Alan goes to call his lawyer, the real Teri finally wakes up and panics seeing Annie, and Frank puts Annie under arrest for the attempted murder of Teri. Annie pulls Frank in and tries to seduce him by reminding him of their kiss and how she has dreamed of him. She wants to be his soulmate and goes in for a kiss just as Frank surprises her by cuffing her hands. Outside, Teri thanks Reva and Josh for helping her and she’s wheeled away. Frank and Annie then come out which pleases Reva/Josh to see her handcuffed. Alan tells her to hang on because this is just a minor setback. Later in prison, Alan and Ben meet with Annie and Ben tries to calm her down and says he’ll be able to get her off.

Harley and Phillip tell Buzz, Eleni and Frank about being pregnant and they all celebrate. Frank and Eleni tell Phillip about catching Annie and he wonders if Alan is involved, to which Frank says yes, he could be in trouble. Phillip later talks to Alan and tells him about Harley being pregnant.

At the diner, Bill tells Drew he’s been trying to call this cop lady friend he made (Teri) so she can help them, but she won’t answer her phone. Drew shows him the paper with the headline that Annie Dutton has been caught, with her picture, and he can’t believe it. I’m very surprised they finally picked back up on this random Bill/Annie thing. Bill later goes to the prison to see Annie and lays into her for duping him at the hospital. She cries and asks for forgiveness and he softens a bit. After he leaves, Annie says she’ll be using him at some point down the line, which I guess is interesting.

Carmen calls the diner to talk to Jesse. He asks how she knew he was there, and she said she has eyes everywhere. She invites him back over to discuss details of the deal she presented before and this time, he agrees to meet with her. Meanwhile at the Santos house, Danny and Michelle have their first night together and Danny sleeps on the floor. Carmen starts coming in and they pretend like they slept together to keep up the ruse. Later that day they meet with the family priest and he presses Michelle on whether she’s entering this marriage against her free will, but Michelle is very convincing about loving Danny. Afterwards, Carmen introduces Danny and Michelle to her newest family employee - Jesse! Michelle and Danny both aren’t happy about this.

Drew confides in Selena about how much she is falling in love with Jesse. Jesse then comes by and tells her he has to quit working for her at Millennium because he got a job with the Santos family so he can watch over Michelle and save her. Drew of course doesn’t like that and she cries over it. She starts taking her clothes off and forces herself on him, but he stops her and she cries over all the things she’s done for him. Later that day, Drew visits Michelle at the Santos compound and puts a bug in her ear that she needs to convince Jesse she doesn’t love him anymore so she can save her own life. Drew says Michelle’s love for Jesse died the night Mick died and that’s just the way it has to be. Michelle seems to think she’s right and plans to sleep with Danny so Jesse can walk in on them. To really make it stick, Michelle plans to have Jesse find them sleeping together at the lighthouse, which is Michelle and Jesse’s special place and where they first made love. Drew works to get Jesse to go to the lighthouse, calls Michelle and tells her he’s on his way, and Michelle/Danny start kissing and taking their clothes off. Michelle starts having second thoughts about it and as Jesse starts knocking on the door, she yells at him to go away because he’ll ruin everything, but he walks in and sees a shirtless Danny and gets mad. He asks Michelle if this is really what she wants, and she says yes, she wants to start a new life with Danny and she and Jesse are over. He’s devastated and says he’ll never bother her again and walks out. Michelle is sad and Danny comforts her, while Jesse goes to Drew and tells her everything and she comforts him.

Reva/Josh host a party at Hart’s farm house for Cassie and RJ and while there, Phillip/Harley announce to everyone they’re pregnant. Matt and Vanessa are there and realize that Hart is not there because he’s with Dinah, who is telling her she is no longer welcome at the farm anymore. Vanessa calls Dinah to make sure she’s ok, but Dinah is still mad at her and Vanessa eventually mentions how Dinah’s baby wasn’t really Hart’s. Cassie overhears this and gets upset, saying Dinah is a liar and she should have known. She also goes off on Vanessa and calls her a liar for keeping the secret and not telling anyone. Hart shows up and Vanessa begs Cassie not to tell Hart, but Cassie grabs Hart away as he’s about to give a toast. They walk into the hall and find Shane and Tammy holding guns and they freak out. Shane knew where the key to the gun safe was and was playing around. This incident makes everyone leave and Cassie doesn’t end up telling Hart yet. Dinah later stops by looking for Hart and Cassie tells her she knows about the baby secret and she’s going to tell Hart the second he comes home. They argue and Cassie figures out that Rob is the father, which Dinah doesn’t deny. To keep Cassie quiet, Dinah draws her gun and points it at Cassie! Dinah starts screaming that Cassie can’t take Hart away from her, and then RJ starts screaming and they wrestle for the gun. Dinah gets the upperhand and points the gun back at Cassie and Cassie pleads with her and says Hart will have to find out that baby Laura wasn’t his, just as he walks in. He grabs Cassie and moves her out of the way just as Dinah shoots the gun and he gets shot in the back! Cassie tries to call for help, but Dinah doesn’t let her and continues to point the gun at her. She’s about to shoot Cassie, but Tammy comes in and screams, startling Dinah and Cassie is able to get the gun. Cassie calls an ambulance and Dinah leaves. Hart gets to the hospital and Rick says he’s lost a ton of blood and the bullet is lodged right next to his heart, so it doesn’t look promising. Frank is there and Cassie tells him that Dinah shot him and she needs to be locked up. Lillian privately tells Josh that Hart is in very critical condition and it’s not looking good. Ross shows up and says someone has to call Blake to let her know about her brother. Ben has taken the phone off the hook so they can enjoy their special evening together, so Ross can’t get through to Blake.

Dinah goes to Vanessa’s house and is rather calm. Vanessa sees blood on her hand and then all over her shirt and asks her what happened. Dinah finally breaks down and says it was all an accident, but she shot Hart and left him there with Cassie. She begs Vanessa not to call the police and says it’s all her fault that she’s in this position. She tells Vanessa that she’ll kill herself if she tells Matt or anyone. Matt comes home and Vanessa doesn’t say anything but Matt sees a bloody rag and asks what’s going on. Vanessa plays it off as something she found under the sink when cleaning. Frank arrives looking for Dinah and tells them that Dinah shot Hart, which makes Matt silently question Vanessa. Vanessa says she doesn’t believe it because there’s no way Dinah could shoot someone, especially Hart. Frank continues to press Vanessa on whether she knows where Dinah is and Vanessa keeps playing dumb (ugh!). Frank leaves and Matt asks Vanessa why she’s lying, because he knows that was fresh blood on the rag. She keeps lying and says she has no idea, which makes Matt angry. Vanessa finally tells him the truth and said she assumed he would turn her in and she couldn’t have that since it was all an accident. He demands to know where Dinah is so Vanessa finally tells him she’s there, in the house hiding. He looks for her but they realize she’s left out an open window.

I know I've said this before, but if anyone could have replaced Christopher Bernau as Alan, it was Jeremy Brett. His Sherlock Holmes reminded me of Alan in many ways.

And I think I've said this before, but if I had to recast Mike Bauer, I would've with someone like Kent McCord from "Adam-12."

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Khan

So I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere-what’s the full story of Alan going to jail? They never really give it all out in the exposition when he comes back outside of AM being involved somehow. It was a bit strange that Alan’s incarceration didn’t seem to affect his standing though at the time I didn’t realize the nonsensical nature of the Spaulding board haha

Also how much interaction does adult AM actually have with Alan pre-jail onscreen? I hadn’t realized with my first introduction to Alan being RR’s taking over that it was seemingly pretty limited and most everything they talk about backstory wise it retconned from faux SORAS childhood. (There needs to be a term for these retconned childhoods of SORAS kids because it really makes your head explode when they drop those stories and you think about the timeline. )

Edited 55 minutes ago55 min by GL95

Some other actors in the age range for Mike & Ed were:

Gary Swanson

Jack Stauffer

Colby Chester

John Findlater (who looked a lot like Mart Hulswit as he got older).

8 minutes ago, GL95 said:

So I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere-what’s the full story of Alan going to jail? They never really give it all out in the exposition when he comes back outside of AM being involved somehow. It was a bit strange that Alan’s incarceration didn’t seem to affect his standing though at the time I didn’t realize the nonsensical nature of the Spaulding board haha

Also how much interaction does adult AM actually have with Alan pre-jail onscreen? I hadn’t realized with my first introduction to Alan being RR’s taking over that it was seemingly pretty limited and most everything they talk about backstory wise it retconned from faux SORAS childhood. (There needs to be a term for these retconned childhoods of SORAS kids because it really makes your head explode when they drop those stories and you think about the timeline. )

Alan went to jail in '90 for shooting Roger. Right? He'd also been complicit in keeping the truth of Marah's paternity from Reva and Josh, and assisted Sonni(Solita) in keeping them apart. He's in a wheelchair after being accidently shot by Sonni, but had recovered and pretended to still be paralyzed.

Adult AM (actually he's a teen) came back to town in '87. Carl T Evans interacted with both Chris Bernau and Daniel Pilon. But by the time Rick Hearst takes over in '90, Alan is in jail and off-screen.

Just now, P.J. said:

Alan went to jail in '90 for shooting Roger. Right?

Who on the show hasn’t gone to jail for shooting Roger haha

With Alan in prison for those four years, would 1989-90 have been a good time to try and bring Amanda back for Spaulding? The actress had appeared for a visit in 1987 I believe, so maybe she would have been willing?

12 minutes ago, GL95 said:

So I don’t think I’ve seen it anywhere-what’s the full story of Alan going to jail? They never really give it all out in the exposition when he comes back outside of AM being involved somehow. It was a bit strange that Alan’s incarceration didn’t seem to affect his standing though at the time I didn’t realize the nonsensical nature of the Spaulding board haha

Oh, now you've done it. You have triggered a RANT.

The way they wrote out Alan in 1989 was STOOOOOOOOOPID. This whole deal where he finds out that Roger is alive, so he gets a gun and decides he's going to shoot him at PHILLIP'S WEDDING was BEYOND RIDICULOUS.

(Yes, I'm aware I'm shouting. I can't help it).

First of all, I don't think Alan ever TOUCHED a gun before this. He would not go after someone (IN PUBLIC) to gun them down personally. If he were ever to be driven to want someone dead, he would HIRE SOMEONE to do it for him. He would never dirty his hands like that. Remember what I was saying before about how self-preservation was the main thing that drove Alan?

But I think it's completely out of character for him to even go that far. Alan had a million chances to get rid of Roger by having him killed. He never did it. So it's a pretty good indicator that 10 years later, he STILL wouldn't do it.

Then there's something else that apparently everyone forgot or chose to forget: Alan had nothing to fear from Roger at this point. Everyone knew everything that Roger had been holding over him in the past. He even briefly went to prison because of it.

Would he have been happy about a Roger return? No. Would he have been suspicous and assume Roger had an agenda against him? Sure.

But personally go after him with a gun and try to kill him? NO.

We're not done with the stupid part. Because Alan accidentally shot Phillip instead of Roger (as one does WHEN YOU'VE NEVER TOUCHED A GUN BEFORE) and then everyone turns against him and seems to be supportive of Roger, he refuses to use an attorney.

Right. Richest guy in town decides NOT to avail himself of the best attorneys in the country, so he ends up getting 5 years in jail. Someone with a public defender would have gotten a better deal.

Meanwhile, Roger gets his record expunged because he was a spook for the government. (Don't even get me started on THAT).

Apparently, Alan didn't avail himself of any attorneys WHILE he was in jail, so he serves the ENTIRE 5 YEARS.

Look, I get that they needed a way to write him out of the story and didn't know how long they were going to keep him off the canvas, but there had to be a much better, much more believable way to do it than this mess. Alan disappearing into the jungles of San Rios with federalistas chasing him was more believable exit.

SIGH.

Rant over.

Edited 12 minutes ago12 min by DeeVee

9 minutes ago, GL95 said:

Who on the show hasn’t gone to jail for shooting Roger haha

Well, true. It just feels like I'm forgetting something. He's spent the past few years involved in an art theft ring, aiding and abetting Sonni, and faking paternity tests (although I can't think of anyone who was ever prosecuted for that off the top of my head). There's also how he was trying to manipulate the situation and warn people Blake was working with Roger, who he suspected was alive.

OH....he's the one who shot Phillip at his wedding to Blake. Although I think that was accidental.