Guiding Light Discussion Thread

[chrisml]

After watching the Locher interview with the GL writers, I reread parts of Kim Zimmer's memoir and I paid specific attention to the parts pertaining to Ellen Wheeler. I don't think Zimmer is wrong in her assessment of Wheeler's tenure on the show (someone hired to basically kill off the show). Zimmer feels Wheeler gutted the show of its heart and alienated its longtime viewers. I was amused by her repeated mentions of Wheeler's incessant crying. Zimmer however is quite sexist and makes remarks like "a male producer would have kept me in line." What I'm most curious about is what Zimmer had to leave out of the book since she said the Wheeler parts had to be edited before publication. 

She also claims in the book that Ellen Wheeler wrote the show during a writer's strike.

Edited April 6 by chrisml

[Contessa Donatella]

And, she doesn't mention her own incessant crying.

[alwaysAMC]

Yep, VI was on AMC through end of Nov 2006 and then he immediately went to Y&R Jan of 2007 (no idea why), and then immediately went back to AMC in 2008.  I loved VI on AMC, but I actually enjoy seeing him be a nice guy Nick on GL (not sure if Nick was always nice or not but he's a sweet supporting character in '95, post-Mindy).

[DRW50]

Kim must have had a much more positive view of the show than many fans did in the mid/late '90s or early/mid '00s. I had mostly stopped watching GL by this time precisely because of so much done in those years, especially the stuff the Labines (or whoever) did in 2000/2001 and then Conboy/Weston did in 2003, felt heartless and crass to me. There were certainly moments in the Wheeler era which I could say the same for, but I wonder if Kim would agree with me, considering they were some of her biggest and most celebrated stories in years (Jonathan's terror campaigns). It's also interesting that she feels Wheeler took the heart away because I think her run did bring more of the old core of Reva back than the Rauch or Conboy eras ever had. 

I wonder if, like Erika Slezak and Linda Gottlieb, there was just too much of a personality difference, although Erika did at least have some praise for Linda's effect on OLTL.

GL was dying no matter who was in charge. The show was incredibly lucky to last as long as they did. They didn't need anyone to kill it off. That Wheeler managed to get the show five more years still surprises me. 

That is by far the best of the character.

Thanks. That's what I remember too (and then maybe someone dragged her off?). The dancing was nice, at least. The cigar...awful.

Edited April 6 by DRW50

[Paul Raven]

Kim was interested in Reva's Guiding Light. Like many performers she was invested in the show only as to how much airtime she received. Reva time travelling, Reva the princess-whatever as long as she was frontburner and the 'star' of the show.

No shade, that's just how it was.

[P.J.]

Yeah...I gotta wonder what Zimmer thinks was left to gut by Wheeler. No, Wheeler's direction wasn't any better...but Springfield had taken hit after hit long before that. Usually in service to Reva's golden hoo-ha. 

[chrisml]

The book was written right after the cancellation so I think her anger at Ellen Wheeler was extremely raw.  She was extremely angry at Wheeler in the book. There's a funny bit (to me) where she's ranting about Ellen Wheeler and then interrupts the rant to tell readers how beautiful and talented Beth Chamberlain is and then she goes back to ranting about Ellen Wheeler (Zimmer is ranting about the GL cast doing hurricane relief which she felt broke the fourth wall but she eventually comes around to accepting it). She also cites Paul Rauch as her favorite of all of the producers. I think it could have been personality conflicts mixed in with some sexism. I think Slezak was put off by Gottlieb's claim she was going to revolutionise daytime. I think Slezak underrates Gottlieb's time on the show and overvalues Phelps's and Rauch's but that's for the OLTL board.

You and I have somewhat similar viewing habits with GL. I stopped when Maureen walked out the cabin door and did not return for a long time as a regular viewer. In a way, I don't think I ever did come full time. I think I just watched certain stories because I have no memory of so much that is talked about on this thread. I refused to watch anything with Deas because I'm petty and I blame him rightly or wrongly for Parker's firing so I miss a lot with the Coopers. To this day, when he pops up in a scene, I fast forward. It's childish, but there it is.

I would agree to a certain extent, but to be fair to Zimmer, she does say Wheeler brought about the end of GL (along with other reasons) by getting rid of Maureen Garrett, Marj Dusay and Jerry Ver Dorn. She was also extremely upset that Wheeler broke up Harley and Gus. 

Zimmer writes, "After Ellen took over the reins, several veteran actors were dropped from the show because of budget cuts. Without contracts, their salaries were no longer guaranteed. They became day players or heavy recurring characters. Still, without their contracts in place, several chose to leave the show to find steadier work. Maureen Garrett, who played Holly, Jerry verDorn, who played Ross Marler, and Marj Dusay, who played Alexandra Spaulding, were just a few of the actors who left the show after Ellen chose to take them off contract, meaning they were no longer guaranteed a weekly salary. With these actors gone, there was a lack of veteran influence, allowing Ellen to refocus the show on the youth of Springfield.  She wanted to be the white knight who saved Guiding Light, but why reinvent the wheel, trying to turn the show into something it was never meant to be? In my opinion, it was a losing proposition to buck the formula that had been successful for, at that point, sixty-eight very solid years.”

 

Edited April 6 by chrisml

[Contessa Donatella]

I've always said 4-6, so your 5 is an average of my estimation. And, that she did is a kind of a tribute to her & also imo something of a miracle, if we believe in that kind of thing. Of course, our truths on this point fly in the face of the somewhat idiotic idea that instead of giving it more years that she killed it, are just ridiculous. I mean look, see, pay heed. And, agree with you that in no way did she get rid of any of the show's heart. 

And, it wasn't that he was smoking a cigar, it was that he put it out on the soundstage floor, in a  spotlight,  nonetheless!

 

What does Justin Deas have to do with Phelps & her focus group? What do you mean here? This is news to me if he had any part in it. And, if so, I certainly want to learn what it was. 

[chrisml]

It was rumoured (rightly or wrongly) that Parker was fired to pay for Deas's salary. The same thing happened with Alice Barrett and Robert Kelker Kelly on AW. JFP denied the AW story but who knows?

[Contessa Donatella]

Thank you for the reply. You're right. We will never know for sure. Phelps's line about expensive jelly beans was, frankly, bizarre. And learning that RKK had a pay or play contract & NBC urged Jill to take him just adds another layer to the confusion.

Edited April 6 by Contessa Donatella

[P.J.]

OMG...bless her heart, but as I've become distinctly aware of since posting to the thread, 1983 viewers probably felt the same way about Kobe?Long's cast purge. Which of course, led to La Zimmer's hiring.

Now, that gamble paid off in ways Wheeler's wasn't going to, but c'mon here, Kim.

[Franko]

A few months later, GH ended their 30th anniversary episode with John Beradino walking with dignity off the set and onto the soundstage. I suspect that was meant as a classy rebuttal to SB's finale. And now I wonder if GL got to give its own response.

[DRW50]

I tend to share many of those views. My issues with Deas were also down to how I felt like Buzz kept Nadine in a bubble and sapped her spirit, although after a few years I was able to accept him.

Thank you for sharing more of her comments. I can see where she might feel that way from a backstage point of view, but IIRC, Jerry and Maureen had already been downgraded before Wheeler (although they may have still been on contract). Holly I distinctly remember vanishing around the time of Conboy as Taggart/Rauch had been putting her in more story.

As for Marj, she had been fired and left repeatedly, and I don't think - much as I respect Marj as a human being and an actress - she ever brought any "veteran influence" to GL. She was written into a corner almost immediately and never left. I didn't even know that Marj ever left GL during Wheeler's stint, I guess because I barely watched for years, but when I went back for the last year, she was there, had been there for a while, and didn't seem that badly used by the standards of her past years. 

I don't want to just kick the hell out of GL, because it still had many great moments for many years, but I think the breaking of the formula she has mentioned probably happened around the time she joined. I do understand why she would not see it that way, and I am not blaming her - it was happening whether she had joined or not, as the first pieces were around 1981 when P&G started dumping vets and actors they didn't see as young/hot enough.

Edited April 6 by DRW50

[Franko]

Twenty-five years ago this week. (It took me a moment to recognize PAS.)

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[dc11786]

Maureen Garrett, Liz Kiefer, Yvonna Kopacz, and Beth Chamberlain were all dropped under John Conboy about August, 2003. Garrett was the least used of the lot as I recall, but Kopacz had her baby so Mel may have appeared even less. After August, I think Garrett appeared twice (Ross and Blake's Christmas 2003 wedding and February, 2004, in a scene with Ed telling him she'd be there for him if he needed her to be). 

If I remember correctly, Chamberlain was offered a contract again under Wheeler (possibly more than once), but she elected to stay off contract because she made more money per episode and she wanted to be able to accept another NY soap job. I think she was interested in the Paige Miller recast on "One Life to Live" that ultimately went to Diane Neil. I believe Valenti was more interested in trying to swipe Crystal Chappell for the role, but Wheeler wouldn't let Chappell out of her contract. 

Garrett returned under Wheeler in September, 2004, on a more regular recurring basis for Roger's demise and Sebastian's arrival. She was used with some consistency until May, 2005, when the budget crunch came in. Her final scenes were part of a set up of a Spaulding takeover storyline where Blake, Sebastian, and Josh were teaming up to infilitrate Spaulding at the moment Holly agreed to sell a piece (or all) of the Journal to Alan in exchange for some of Spaulding Enterprises. 

Jerry ver Dorn, Marj Dusay, and Michael O'Leary were all dropped to recurring under Wheeler in September, 2005, along with the complete dismissal of Paul Anthony Stewart, Nancy St. Alban, and David Andrew MacDonald after St. Alban returned from her maternity leave, which the show had extended. Laura Wright and Daniel Cosgrove both jumped ship at that point with Wright immediately joining "General Hospital" as Carly. 

Zimmer is a bit audacious to complain about Wheeler though because this was when she refused to take a pay cut. Zimmer's point was valid; reopening a contract was a dangerous precedent to set at any show. As a result though, some of those people left, I believe. 

Wheeler should have dumped Bradley Cole the minute his contract was up. It was rumored Conboy had brought him back with clause that required the show to pay out his contract if they terminated him before it's natural end.