4 minutes ago, P.J. said:

I just flat out consider Zas, Bryggman, Bernau and Herrera better actors. 

Herrera, in particular, had the very Herculean task of making a two-dimensional villain with no redeeming qualities appealing to the audience.  It wasn't an easy task, but by God, he did it (for the most part, I could've done without all the returns after 1989).

15 minutes ago, Khan said:

Herrera, in particular, had the very Herculean task of making a two-dimensional villain with no redeeming qualities appealing to the audience.  It wasn't an easy task, but by God, he did it (for the most part, I could've done without all the returns after 1989).

ICAM. I think James should have stayed dead after Paul shot him. 

17 minutes ago, Khan said:

Herrera, in particular, had the very Herculean task of making a two-dimensional villain with no redeeming qualities appealing to the audience.  It wasn't an easy task, but by God, he did it (for the most part, I could've done without all the returns after 1989).

I'm actually surprised how brutish he comes off in these mid-'80s episodes during his Marland return. I am used to an older, somewhat quieter James, but here he is very quick to anger and put his hands on people whenever the mask slips. You don't see that much in soap archvillains of his ilk - you really think 'this dude could hurt me.'

32 minutes ago, P.J. said:

@Contessa Donatella  yes, I liked Aubrey Dollar. This was definitely a case of the recast not working for me.

We happen to agree! Not Marina. Loved Dollar. Bruno no go.

32 minutes ago, P.J. said:

Wait---villains or actors? I mean, God Bless Eric Braeden, but he wouldn't make my actor's list.

Yeah., of his list, I gladly accept Zas's Roger, Chris Bernau's Alan although I submit that he was not of these others calibre. Anthony's Stenbeck but I'd have to draw the line there. It's not exactly a problem about Victor, but as much as I like him, EB isn't cutting it.

29 minutes ago, Vee said:

I'm actually surprised how brutish he comes off in these mid-'80s episodes during his Marland return. I am used to an older, somewhat quieter James, but here he is very quick to anger and put his hands on people whenever the mask slips. You don't see that much in soap archvillains of his ilk - you really think 'this dude could hurt me.'

It seems like, when Anthony Herrera first joins the WT cast, way the hell back in 1980, the Dobsons (or whoever was writing at that point) make SOME effort, however half-hearted, to paint James Stenbeck as multi-layered and complicated.  James is never entirely trustworthy, yet he appears very sincere in his efforts to reconnect with Barbara and Paul. 

Once James hooks up with Margaret Colin's Margo, however, and starts using his wife's business, Fashions, Ltd., as a front for his drug-smuggling operations, any pretense of James being misunderstood flies out the old window, lol; so that, after a certain point, if he isn't busy driving Barbara crazy so he can have custody of their son, or attempting once more to kill Gunnar St. Clair and get his hands on the blasted Stenbeck fortune, he's mixing it up with glorified gun molls like Ariel Aldrin and Karen Haines, or engaging in weird, "Spy vs. Spy"-esque antics with fellow ne'er-do-well John Dixon - who, IMO, is being written with less nuance than in the past and really doesn't become an actual character again 'til Marland - that I'm sure left ATWT's longtime fans wondering just WTF was going on.

That's why I loved the material that Douglas Marland wrote for him and felt it all was a proper end to that character.  To put it simple, Marland got it: there's nothing romantic or mysterious or tragic about James Stenbeck.  He's just a thug with a better resume.

Edited March 14Mar 14 by Khan

4 minutes ago, Khan said:

Marland got it: there's nothing romantic or mysterious or tragic about James Stenbeck.  He's just a thug with a better resume.

James Stenbeck would never be considered an anti-hero/romantic leading man.

Edited March 14Mar 14 by kalbir

1 minute ago, kalbir said:

James Stenbeck would never be considered an anti hero/romantic leading man.

Which makes his constant battling with John Dixon especially problematic - because, again, you've got villain vs. villain, and who am I supposed to be rooting for again, lol?

Just now, Khan said:

 villain vs. villain, and who am I supposed to be rooting for again, lol?

Back to GL 1977-1980, who wins MZ Roger vs. CB Alan?

4 minutes ago, kalbir said:

Back to GL 1977-1980, who wins MZ Roger vs. CB Alan?

Another tough one, lol! 

Actually, Alan and Roger had more in common than either ever would have admitted.  Both were products of dysfunctional families; both had a thing for women who were either young and/or impressionable, or were conflicted over their carnal desires (hi, Rita!); and both felt a strong need to "prove themselves" to everyone, but especially to their fathers, who had looming presences in their respective lives.

Of course, AFAIK, Alan never raped anyone, so I guess he wins, lol?

Edited March 14Mar 14 by Khan

14 hours ago, P.J. said:

You mean Marina, Mandy Bruno. Who I didn't really like either. 

I couldn't stand Bruno...Wheeler had a habit of hiring these sweet young things like Bruno, the woman who is on BTG's now (lets hope she got better) and the Lizzie actress (who I thought was good but totally miscast as Lizzie...who should have beena  bit more intense and darker) Bruno was so damn sweet that it made my teeth hurt, plus, we didnt need another Cooper on screen.

12 hours ago, Contessa Donatella said:

Yes but did you like her when played by Aubrey Dollar?

I liked her as Dollar gave her a sarcastic teen vibe, and the good ole, blue collar girl trying to get ahead (I wanted a scene where she finds the N.R. loves K.N. carve in the wall in Nola's bedroom..."It looks like the girl who lived her wanted to get out too") but then Bruno made her this sweet young thing who vied with Harley in giving all the men in town the hots.

Mandy Bruno's Marina was ultimately cloying and boring. Occasionally she'd have moments of being vaguely compelling in dire circumstances, but she was just not ready to be a major lead. Predictably, genial and vaguely saintly mediocrity never deterred Ellen Wheeler (case in point: Jessica Leccia) so of course Bruno continued to star on the show.

4 minutes ago, Vee said:

Mandy Bruno's Marina was ultimately cloying and boring.

She made me long for the return of Kit Paquin.  (I'm joking, but not by much).

11 hours ago, Vee said:

'm actually surprised how brutish he comes off in these mid-'80s episodes during his Marland return. I am used to an older, somewhat quieter James, but here he is very quick to anger and put his hands on people whenever the mask slips. You don't see that much in soap archvillains of his ilk - you really think 'this dude could hurt me.'

James is so interesting as a villain..he came on under the Dobsons as this fantasy prince until he was unmasked for what he was, but even having the affair with Margo didnt put him into the cartoon super villain hold...it was when the Dobs were fired first and the strike hit and they made James run over John, (which is stupid, he wouldve jsut dumped Margo if John was a pain) and then the stupid drug ring. When the Dobsons came back they doubled down on him being a cartoon villain and the dye was cast.

When Marland first brought him back he was more brutish and a bit scary, and you can see why Lucinda had a sick hots for him. I loved the scene where James is in the Hughes kitchen and he tells Paul, "Son I want you to have these values" as tries to b.s. his way back into good graces...but he has a hold on Paul's neck as he does it and Nancy gives him the side eye that she is not buying it.  Later runs dumped that (even as he ordered murders) which was too bad, Herrar hit his stride as this brutal guy who had a veneer of aristocracy to him. (which made sense James was raised as a Stenbeck but was really a  bad seed changeling.) 

If they insisted on bringing him back, each time he should have been more and more insane..where you could see his mental deterioration each time..instead of the cartoon villain who never changes.

Roger is anther character that went thorugh so many changes..but for the better until McTrash tried to revert him to being just a sociopath. John, was never a villain..he was a very complicated, selfish, but loving guy who always felt the victim against the "Hughes/Steward axis " as he said before.

 

2 minutes ago, Mitch64 said:

When Marland first brought him back he was more brutish and a bit scary, and you can see why Lucinda had a sick hots for him.

I still don't get the whole thing where they brought him back in the late '90s claiming he and Lucinda somehow knew each other before when they'd met onscreen IIRC and she was snowed by him. But that is way OT for this thread.

6 minutes ago, Vee said:

I still don't get the whole thing where they brought him back in the late '90s claiming he and Lucinda somehow knew each other before when they'd met onscreen IIRC and she was snowed by him. But that is way OT for this thread.

Don't you just love how the P&G soaps would occasionally treat their audiences as if we were morons, lol?