Guiding Light discussion thread

[NothinButAttitude]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmSx-wJfozM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TXh3nhgHRg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pk-E5-3n3kE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdGLsrGXJ-E

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C8c9-hDqqo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WO_15xuOAd8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6Dw3AiP-cc

[zanereed]

Before looking at Ed Bauer, I think it's good to start by looking at his father, Bill Bauer:

Bill Bauer was always portrayed as a weak, indecisive man, constantly hounded by Bert to be a success and to offer his family a better life, and he always seemed to make the wrong choices. He had affairs, he was an alcoholic, etc.

Robert Gentry originally played Ed Bauer as rather an arrogant, self-absorbed young man fresh from medical school. He resented his father, Bill, for being a womanizer and an alcoholic. Basically, Gentry's Ed tried hard to be nothing like Bill Bauer. He was particularly critical of Bill's affair with Maggie and critical of Bert for staying with Bill. Bert called him out on his selfishness, stating that Bill was a better man than Ed because Bill had compassion and sensitivity, unlike Ed. By the time Gentry left the role, Ed was exactly like Bill - a womanizer (cheating on Leslie) and an alcoholic.

Mart Hulswit's version was a bit more toned down. Ed was still slightly arrogant and self-absorbed, but a bit more mature. However, his romantic relationships were a mess and he was portrayed - as Carl rightly states - pushover. After he divorced Leslie, he went from Janet Mason to Holly to Rita - never being able to keep his personal life together. Although Ed tried to be tough against someone like Roger, he was no match for him.

Peter Simon portrayed Ed as even weaker than Hulswit's, although Ed did finally settle into a long term relationship with Maureen.

Richard Van Vleet was Chuck from All My Children, pretending to be Ed Bauer.

I thought Gentry returning to the role in 1997 had good potential, especially when it seemed like his version of Ed had some fire again.

Don't get me wrong, Mike Bauer had issues as well - he was a womanizer just as Ed was, but he was much more stoic and noble (just as Carl stated earlier). Mike was much more similar to Bert than to Bill. Paired with the right person, he certainly could have been the patriarchal figure throughout the show's run, just as Mike Karr had been on the Edge of Night.

[zanereed]

The three characters that stand out for me:

Justin Marler - Phillip finally finds out that Justin is his biological father versus Alan, yet leaves Springfield a few weeks later. There was so much more to be had with the Alan/Phillip/Justin angle.

Mike Bauer - I went into this awhile ago, but Mike's involvement with Alexandra (and possible marriage to her) could have kept the Bauer/Spaulding feud continually driving story for years to come (even during Chris Bernau's absence). The triangle with Alexandra/Mike/Lillian had barely begun, and would have likely had impacted Lujack and Beth.

Hope Bauer - I always wanted the show to try Hope and Ross together. Alan would always be interfering in Hope's life, of course, because of Alan-Michael. Plus, there was no love loss between Ross and Alan (and Ross was a Marler, which probably would have gotten under Alan's skin).

Edited January 14, 2015 by zanereed

[Dan]

I'm late to the party on this (as I usually am with my random visits), but I can no longer say that the death of Maureen was the beginning of the end for the show. Yes, in the long term, her absence created a whole in the show, but I've seen too many beloved characters fade into obsolescence or worse that I can appreciate that Maureen went out as herself in a tour de force performance by Ellen Parker. Those two weeks of episodes are still some of the most powerful drama that I've seen on a tv show and one of the few times when the acting, writing, and production values were almost perfect. The fallout from the death could have been better utilized by the writers, true, but the potential was there.

[DRW50]

I think I would appreciate that more if any of her death had been about her, instead of, essentially, Ed having an extended sad, along with a few nice moments for other characters. In the end it amounted to very little. Not having any of her family return (oncamera) was very telling.

I think there was more story to tell with her alive and divorced from Ed. I realize she would have likely been written out within a few years either way, I just think the character would have been better served.

[Dan]

Agree about the fact that we never got to see the funeral where we could have celebrated the character more instead of Ed just moping around (even if Peter Simon did moping very well). I did appreciate though that, even if the family didn't return, that they mentioned they were there and we just didn't see them. I hate when they hope that we forget the people that should have been there.

[DRW50]

It's nice to see you posting here again.

[Paul Raven]

Re Lenore Kasdorf. Perhaps she didn't want to return to NY at that point as she had a young daughter (?) at that time and was she also seperated/divorced by then? Maybe family considerations took priority.

As for the 94 cast purge I agree with zane reed about Justin,Hope and Mike. Also there was plenty of story left for Hillary,Katie,Tony/Annabelle,Jim , Amanda etc

Doug Marland made the decision to set up the Reardons as the new family in town to complement the Bauers and Spauldings and provide fresh story potential through their interactions with those established characters.

A few short years was too soon to drop all those newish characters and bring in new families like the Lewis and Shayne clans.

[DRW50]

To be honest I don't really think the Reardons worked as a family. I think the Lewises had that potential more, although it went haywire when it mostly became about who was Reva was marrying or about to marry or had once married.

[Paul Raven]

Here's some summaries from August 83 omwards. The departures of Amanda,Justin and Helena are mentioned.Actually reading over this,initially Long/Kobe kept a lot of story for inherited characters but later dropped them all.

August 83

Claire and Kelly are starting to become friends. Lesley Ann admits to Hillary she's having an affair with Warren. Warren decides to get even with Hillary for butting in. Billy and Vanessa learn that they are both broke. Instead of agreeing to marry Billy, Vanessa socks him in the eye. Henry tells Josh and Billy he thinks Alan has manipulated bids for LTA. Nola and Quint head for Chicago to see Bill Bauer to uncover the mystery of the picture. An upset Henry tries to reach Bill. In Chicago, Nola and Quint learn a drunken Bill has fallen to his death and police consider it a suicide. Hope agrees to magazine interview but tells Alan she'll leave him as soon as the interview is finished.

Though Ed believes Bill killed himself, Mike considers it murder. Annabelle is stunned when she realizes Bill was the man following her in Chicago. Rick is thrilled about Maureen's pregnancy but Ed feels he's too old to be a father. Beth admits to Lillian she loves Philip. When Barker threatens lawsuit, Alan fires Bradley and hires Barker in his place. Warren is still coming on to Lesley Ann. Henry's heart problems recur. After Ross agrees to help Amanda fight for Matthew's custody, she says she'll marry him, but later shatters Ross when she decides to leave Springfield and live with Jennifer and Matthew. Mike blames Trish for Alan and Hope's split.

Billy tells Josh it's all over with Vanessa. Billy blames Trish for Vanessa's leaving and accuses her of being on Alan's side. Henry is happy that he, Vanessa, Nola and Quint will live together because he needs a family. Nola and Quint believe someone in the picture killed Bill Bauer. Tony tells Annabelle it's only a coincidence that Bill was at her hotel, but she still feels the murder had something to do with her. Tony tells Mike that Annabelle is not the mystery woman in the picture, nor is it her mother. Annabelle thinks she should have told Mike that she was in Chicago. Mike wants Ross to investigate the connection between the girl in the picture and his father's death. Ross calls Chicago and learns the case has been ruled a suicide and is closed. Annabelle accepts engagement ring that Tony received from Bea. Bradley finds out Barker got him fired.

Alan receives a blackmail tape saying someone knows Philip is not his real son. He tells Trish to find out who sent the tape. Bradley overhears the conversation and plans to blackmail Alan. Alan agrees to tell Philip that Justin is his real father, but not before he catches the blackmailer. Annabelle dreams she killed Bill, but Tony convinces her she is not crazy and didn't commit the murder. Rick realizes Bradley has a drinking problem and tells Beth not to be ashamed. Vanessa returns home and tells Henry she is broke. Henry offers her money but she won't take it, planning to make it on her own. Henry receives a picture of a woman inscribed with a death threat. He looks up from the picture, sees Annabelle wearing a similar dress and has a heart attack.

Philip reacts violently when he learns Rick also knows Justin is Philip's real father. H.B. visits Henry in the hospital and warns him to keep their secret. Nola convinces Annabelle to visit Henry. Henry then suffers a relapse, and later Annabelle is found unconscious. Henry's respirator has been unplugged. Ed warns Warren to leave Hope alone. Warren retaliates by cutting residency program. Claire pressures Ed to have hand surgery. H.B. promises Billy a loan if Josh will ask, but Josh refuses. Alan and Trish make love. Nola does detective work to find out who the other people in the picture are and why it affects Annabelle. Tony and Annabelle set a wedding date. Samantha is taken ill and rushed to hospital.

Sept 83

Hillary reconnects Henry's respirator and his condition improves. Claire demands an investigation of what happened. A furious Warren tells Claire he may halt her internship at the hospital for her "outrageous accusations." Kelly comforts Claire, who says all she wants to do is be a doctor and she may have ruined that chance. Mindy agrees to go away with Philip and they make love in the stable. Mindy realizes going away with Philip is a mistake and after conversations with Rick and Beth, Philip decides to stay in Springfield. Hillary and Josh are growing closer.

Quint goes to Ross and says he wants protection for Henry. Warren is sitting on investigation of who disconected Henry's respirator. Annabelle is going to a psychiatrist to see why she is having blackouts. Ed tells Bert he wants to have microsurgery on his hand for the sake of his baby and his career. Trish, put off by Alan's continual buying of gifts and coming on to her at work, decides to work on Ross's political campaign. After Alan tells Philip Mindy knew Justin was his real father, Philip confronts Mindy and tells her they are through. Mindy becomes hysterical in hospital corridor after Philip tells her this. Philip then goes to Beth and asks her to run away with him, but she says she can't; she must stay and help her mother Lillian, who is having financial and emotional problems.

H.B. disappears and later his briefcase containing over $1 million is found in Josh's office. Josh admits to Ross that he and H.B. had a fight which ended in Josh punching him out. Annabelle recalls she had another blackout in H.B.'s room. Justin, realizing Samantha's asthma problem is serious, must choose between staying in Springfield for Philip or moving to Tucson with his young child. Justin opts for Tucson, unaware that Helena plans to follow him. Maureen, distraught about her miscarriage, is comforted by Bea, who says she too had a first pregnancy that ended in a miscarriage. Philip gives Beth his private journal. On surprise visit to Lesley Ann, Katie realizes Warren has also been there when she spots his engraved cufflinks. Hope tells Alan she is proceeding with the divorce.

Having enrolled at college, Phillip winds up taking Annabelle's English class with Beth. Phillip misses his friendship with Rick who cannot get over the loss of Beth to Phillip. Before leaving town with Samantha, Justin mends fences with Phillip. Wanting to get in an executive post at Spaulding, Vanessa agrees to be nice to Nola so Quint won't block her appointment. When Billy hires a beautiful secretary, Vanessa retaliates by hiring a hunky male assistant. When Katie is turned down for position at Cedars, Ed and Maureen try to help. Upset because Warren seems interested in Hope, Lesley Ann says they are through. With little money coming in, Bradley's temper flares and he takes a swing at Lillian. Under hypnosis, Annabelle recalls talking to Bill Bauer. Henry is discharged from hospital.

Oct 83

Maureen decides to stop work at hospital. Nola is fearful her pregnancy will upset the newly miscarried Maureen. Annabelle continues her hypnosis sessions to try and recall her past. Vanessa's good-looking male secretary has no ability at his job. Claire agrees to work on Ross's campaign. Kelly tells Claire she should start enjoying life more. Hope is devastated when Warren tells her he has no interest in her on a romantic level and she continues to drink heavily. Lesley Ann is told by Warren to tell Floyd truth about their affair. Going to house to check for intrudes. Quint is knocked out as H.B. lurks in shadows.

H.B. exits the Chamberlain house undetected. Noda convinces Ross to put an APB out on H.B. A drunken Hope passes out and forgets to pick up Alan Michael at nursery school. Philip spots the boy and takes him to stable when no one's home at Hope's. A panicked Hope thinks the boy has been lost for good, and when he is retrieved, Hope agrees she needs help with her drinking. The board decides Warren was negligent in the mishap with Henry's respirator. Claire tells Kelly about an accident which left her brother paralyzed. Annabelle’s father, Eli is fearful Annabelle about to remember her childhood. He murders Annabelle's psychiatrist. Thinking Beth and Philip have been intimate, Bradley makes her get pregnancy test and is told by doctor she is still a virgin.

Hope attends her first AA meeting and realizes that Ed is also attending. Eli is behind Annabelle's problem; when he learns she is going to a new psychiatrist, he considers doing that one in as well. Ed decides to have surgery on his hand so that he can return to the operating room. Warren tells Lesley Ann he once attended medical school but dropped out after the first year. Hillary tells Lesley Ann that she wants to be her roommate. Tony and Annabelle realize she is not the murderess and decide to prove it. Josh discovers where H.B. is hiding but tells no one in order to protect his father. Henry must go back into the hospital to regulate heart medication and Eli silently vows to kill him there. Floyd sinks all his money into stock market.

Bradley is fired by Warren for brandishing a gun. An enraged Bradley rapes Beth. Ed's hand surgery is successful. Eli continues his murderous plan, with his next target Henry Chamberlain and the Lewis children. Eli plants a bomb in Billy's car, and then has Henry's medication changed at hospital. Lesley Ann is blamed for giving Henry extra medication which almost killed him. H.B. confronts Tony and Annabelle, swearing he didn't kill anyone and begging for time. Mindy is named homecoming queen.

Nov 83

says his secretary must have died in explosion. Bea is unaware Eli has turned camera she is taking to meeting into bomb. Lillian is unaware Bradley has raped Beth. An ashamed Beth won't tell anyone or have anything to do with Philip. Grateful that Ross didn't arrest H.B., Trish agrees to work on his campaign. Bea tells Tony she wishes his father, Tom, were alive even if it means Tom might be a killer. Warren manages to clear Lesley Ann of charges concerning the overmedicating of Henry. Ed is amused by Maureen's jealousy over Claire being his physical therapist. Hope is getting over alcohol problems through AA.

Henry recounts weekend when he, H.B., Brandon, Bill and Tom met Annabelle's mother. She appeared during one of their fishing trips and later drowned. Tom discovered her body, and soon after that he disappeared. Eli traps Tony and holds a gun on him, but Tony manages to escape and runs to t the boarding house to warn everyone that the camera Eli told Bea to take to meeting holds the bomb. Tony arrives just after the bomb goes off, but the only injured party is Ross, who receives minor injuries. Beth, who continues to take shower after shower to try and cleanse herself from Bradley's rape, becomes hysterical when Lillian thinks Beth is upset because Philip tried to come on to her. Kelly fears Claire is too involved with a little girl whose mother remains in coma following accident.

Ross, Trish, Quint, Nola and Bea go to Lake Elizabeth where they are reunited with Annabelle, who recalls Tom visited the cabin the day Eli killed him. Everyone returns to Springfield determined to put the past behind them. Bea holds memorial service for Tom, finally coming to terms with her husband's death. Mindy tries to console Philip over his loss of Beth. When Philip goes to visit Beth, Lillian, believing Philip is the reason for Beth's depression, calls the police. Philip spends the night in jail. Alan promises to help Bradley keep Beth and Philip apart. A restraining order is issued to keep Philip away. Ed tells Claire to be honest about her feelings for Kelly. Agatha tells Billy and Vanessa that she knew about their bet as to which one could get her money first. Vanessa and Billy agree to marry. Lesley Ann breaks down when she's told by Warren that they are through.

Kelly tells Claire he wants her, but she asks for him to wait. Having been tossed aside by Warren, Lesley Ann takes bottle, of pills home from the hospital. Alan hires a prostitute to "get" Ross. Nola is upset when she learns Vanessa is only nice to her because Quint insisted. Vanessa and Billy admit they love one another and plan to marry. Billy talks about his second wife, a woman he really loved. When Philip tries to kiss Beth, she scratches him and runs off. Nola infuriates Vanessa by inviting the city's homeless to her Thanksgiving celebration.

Alan heads for Tulsa to bring Billy's ex-wife to Springfield. Tony and Annabelle make love. Lesley Ann is upset because her suicide attempt was unsuccessful. Hillary, disillusioned with life in general, decides to take solo backpacking trip. Phillip is under restraining order to stay away from Beth. Vanessa is pressured into asking Nola to be her bridesmaid. Bradley is nervous when Lillian insists Beth have complete physical examination.

Dec 83

H.B. shows Ed the gunshot wound he sustained, but makes Ed promise not to go to the police. Alan realizes that Beth loves Philip, but still plans to keep them apart. Ross believes he was drugged and pursued by Mary. When the party considers not backing Ross, he says he's going to run for political office anyway. Mindy and Philip make love.

Hillary is unable to forget the man she met in the cabin. Bradley gets court order to make Beth return home. Billy’s ex-wife Reva tells Billy their divorce is not legal so he can't wed Vanessa. Kelly tells Claire he loves her. Ed concerned over dangerous research being done in Dr. Stevens' lab. Katie sees John Stevens. It's love at first sight but she is unaware that the researcher is Hillary's mystery man. Stevens is dead, and he is pretending to be him in order to go on with important research which would be put back years if Stevens' grant was pulled. Floyd is stunned when Lesley Ann says she plans to marry Warren.

Alan fires Bradley. After coming on to Mike, Reva calls him animal when a client walks in. Reva tells Billy she'll divorce him if he deposits $5 million in Swiss bank. Billy assures Vanessa the only women he's ever loved in his life are herself and Mindy's mother, not Reva. Ed realizes Bradley gave Lillian a black eye. Bradley tries to take Beth from school, but she and Philip run off. Heading for New York, Beth and Philip get rid of his car and buy jalopy they spot at diner. Alan plans legal action to see Alan Michael. Maureen is jealous when Claire talks to Ed at dance. With Floyd lavishing gifts on everyone with his newgound money from lottery, Tony assures him he doesn't need to buy friendship. In New York, Beth and Philip are befriended by street Santa after their jalopy is stripped. Hillary learns Dr. Stevens is her mystery man. Trish tells Ross she loves him, but he is only interested in business.

Kelly considers Boston residency but does not want to leave Claire. Claire's brother Sam comes to town and says he's engaged, has his own life now and Claire must make a life for herself. Reva tells Billy she wants either $5 million and a Swiss bank account or a third of LTA if he wants legal divorce. Billy refuses both deals. Alan tells Warren he wants drugs planted on Ross. John wants to continue calling Hillary "Colette" the name he used for her at the cabin, but she is uncomfortable with this fantasy role. Rick considers Alan's plea that he try and find Philip. In New York, Philip and Beth are befriended by street Santa Claus. Philip is against Beth's idea to sketch passersby in New York. He's fearful police will spot her. Quint considers job at university.

[DRW50]

So Helena left town with Justin? Or did she go without letting him know she would be with him? Confusing.

So many curtailed and rushed stories - you can already see the wheels preparing to come off.

I wonder if they had no idea JWS was going to quit?

[zanereed]

Paul,

Thanks for those summaries. After reading the final months of 1983, it did seem like Pam was hurrying through the current cast to get focused on the people she wanted to write for. So, out goes Bill Bauer, Justin, Hope, the Reardons, etc., for Billy, H.B., etc.

Did Pam create the Lake Elizabeth/Eli Simms storyline, or was that Carolyn Culliton, or even Brown/Palumbo?

Carl, it doesn't seem like TPTB knew JWS was quitting, either...

Edited January 15, 2015 by zanereed

[robbwolff]

I thought John Wesley Shipp left for pilot season with the understanding that he could return to GL if things didn't pan out. And then when he approached GL in 1984 about returning, he was told by Kobe that they didn't have a need for Kelly. It makes sense since they then had Jim Reardon as their hunky doctor. Of course, Michael Woods would a year later leave for pilot season.

As I recollect, Culliton introduced Annabelle Sims in April 1983 and then the story with the mysterious photo actually kicked off in May 1983. I think Pam was head writer when the story actually started. However, in a message to the Another World Home Page, Browne said that Kobe fired her around February/March 1983 and that GL continued to use her bible for the next nine months. However, she also claims that she was credited as head writer during those nine months. Not true. Her name was gone from the credits no later than April 1983.

[Soaplovers]

The Reardons seemed to have a decent presence up through 1985. From what I can tell, Pam Long said she would have continued writing for Nola and Tony.. but the actors left so she wrote them out. There was an interview from early 1984 where she said she loved the character moments where you sat at a table with a cup of coffee and talk about anything.. but that TPTB (proctor and gamble) wanted her to focus more on plot. She also said that she couldnt see anyone playing Amanda except for the actress who played her.. and indicated that the actress choose to leave on her own.

I actually like the Pam Long era better then the Marland era to be honest.

[Mitch]

Concerning Ed and Mo relationship and Ed as patriarch. I was watching a You Tube dowload of the Christmas Episodes of I believe 88...(I started watching 1 clip at lunch and watch all 16 clips they were so good...) Long had just come back several months before after the strike and she and the show were on fire...so much was going on..the majority of the action was the Sonni/Will/Lewis stuff in San Rios..(a great thing about it was that while it was Reva and Josh all the Lewis and Shaynes were involved....unlike later..) but the annual Christmas Eve at the Bauers and anvils were falling like snow...maybe because I know what is going to happen but Mo and Fletcher have a nice moment with gifts (Hammer wasnt bad in these episodes and he an Mo had chemistry) its Holly's first episode and Mo says something like "Ed would prefer to spend time with Holly," and Alex is on to Mo and Fletcher having a friendly little crush (only months after Maeve kicked it..bad form people) A whole LOT of stuff was going on with the Sonni/Wills stuff hitting its stride going into the conclusion of it and all of the stories gearing up for the return of Roger and Holly, Blake becoming a holy terror, and Ed and Mo splitting up, and Alex and Fletcher (not to mention Rick and Meredith who I had forgotten about.

Anyway, geting back to my point..they have a scene where Ed tries to get Mo to go on vacation with him..he is going on about how many years they had Christmas with people all around and coming back from their honeymoon and her whole family was waiting for them and Mo being so busy (she was helping Fletch after Maeve died) but its interesting that Long was laying out the difference in Ed and Mo in that he was more of a loner and Mo was the earth mother involved with everyone so it makes sense when he is drawn back to Holly not only for their past but also their personalities. Holly mentions that she coudl NEVER throw a party like that and the house was never this full when they were married etc.(not only did they try to make her matronly Holly was more snooty bitchy at this point) At that point Ed did NOT make a good patriarch as Long was writing him to character, he was quiet,self contained and kind of cold, while Mo was open, big hearted and generous. The show could have used Mike at that point (I wish it was Mike who crashed in the plane with Alex on Roger's island...good story there.) I was really suprised how much I enjoyed Long's writing.

But I think when Ed came back under Taggert, he was in a place to be patriarch and he was written accordingly. He had been held captive but he was tougher (even threatening Carmen in a really good scene.if only Ed was around the whole time Carmen and he had a good push pull there.) and sadder and wiser, and more open in his quiet introspective way. Ed at this time had done it all and made a good sounding board. Its too bad that soaps were so loud and cartoony by then that the writers following had no idea how to use this quiet man and instead threw the town patriarch to loud obnoxious Buzz.