Sharon deliberately lying to Jack about the baby's paternity is cruel. I don't have a dog in the Phyllis v Sharon debate but even from my perspective, what they have done with Sharon so far is awful and if a future baby switch evolves from this it will do nothing to redeem this character. I actually liked the progress they showed with Sharon and with Phyllis but what's the point if they are going to sacrifice everyone for the sake of the quad plot? Jack is an idiot for taking Sharon back after she slept with his brother. I hate that. Phyllis is dumb if she takes Nick back after he left her for someone else.

And Billy is everything Jack accused him of. He is a lovable screw-up who is becoming unlovable. This great love they are selling with Mac isn't doing anything to address his character flaws. The message they are sending is that he is basically a screw up if he can't have Mac. So what is his daughter supposed to do? It was almost like he doesn't even care about Delia until he remembers he needs to play daddy from time to time.

Chloe stole the show for me yesterday. EH has really made Chloe into my favorite under 30 character and I wish they would get her far away from Billy and Mac who are insufferably boring and sanctimonious.

Sharon deliberately lying to Jack about the baby's paternity is cruel. I don't have a dog in the Phyllis v Sharon debate but even from my perspective, what they have done with Sharon so far is awful and if a future baby switch evolves from this it will do nothing to redeem this character. I actually liked the progress they showed with Sharon and with Phyllis but what's the point if they are going to sacrifice everyone for the sake of the quad plot? Jack is an idiot for taking Sharon back after she slept with his brother. I hate that. Phyllis is dumb if she takes Nick back after he left her for someone else.

And Billy is everything Jack accused him of. He is a lovable screw-up who is becoming unlovable. This great love they are selling with Mac isn't doing anything to address his character flaws. The message they are sending is that he is basically a screw up if he can't have Mac. So what is his daughter supposed to do? It was almost like he doesn't even care about Delia until he remembers he needs to play daddy from time to time.

Chloe stole the show for me yesterday. EH has really made Chloe into my favorite under 30 character and I wish they would get her far away from Billy and Mac who are insufferably boring and sanctimonious.

I agree with everything you said. I often wonder if people cheer for Sharon? I mean, it would be in the show's best interest if they made her into a strong heroine with a mind of her own instead of the same lying trouble making trash Nikki Newman alway accused her of being. I would actually like her more if she took the opportunity yesterday to walk up to Nick and Phyllis and say, "I'm pregnant with your daughter Nick, but right now Phyllis and Summer need you and you should be with them and not me." Maybe Nick would learn to man up too, but I don't think they want him to become a stronger character either. There is this sick co-dependence Nick and Sharon have with each other. Either put them back together and write them off into the sunset or keep them apart for good.

Billy is really starting to get under my skin. I really miss the "real" Billy. They need to bring that Billy back in the form of Billy Miller.

EH rocks it!

Yes, she did say that, but I took it to mean that the Winters were gonna have front burner later this summer.... and instead of Rafe being used less, I certainly HOPE that the Scoobies are the ones who get bumped down the ladder. Your scenario is certainly possible, but what she said in her interview is what made me feel the way I do. But anyway... back to eppy discussion, I'm wondering if TGVN is FINALLY gonna have a light bulb go off in his head after his encounter with "kitty" yesterday? Maybe he'll finally realize that Patty Jane is totally unhinged. I do, however, LOVE the concept of Victor's mahcinations coming back to bite him in the ass... Patty Jane, and Jeffrey Bardwell's blackmail. From the previews, this thing with Jeffrey sounds GOOD. But then again, I just LOVE a good blackmail SL.

See, I enjoy the Scoobies and Glo-Jeff. Even I get irritated, though, when seeing them means not seeing others (I'm fixated on Nikki and Paul...but I'd add Lauren-Michael and Neil-Devon to the list, I think). In an ideal world, we could enjoy the levity and uniqueness of this story...but not at the cost of other stories. Which returns to my (redunant, sorry!) feeling that the cast must be shrunk...even if it comes with painful cost. If Lauren-Michael and Neil-Devon are now too expensive and don't inspire the writers, they should go (out of town, not recurring)...until the creative team is ready to really play them again and the budget allows it. Tyra-Ana are an obvious one, and (sadly) so are JT-Victoria-Colleen.

Underuse of cast, and the lack of cast integration (I want to see all the reaction shots...I want to see the ripples of each even wash over each 'family' member). I am definitely feeling the lack of this in the currently Summer storyline.

And Billy is everything Jack accused him of. He is a lovable screw-up who is becoming unlovable. This great love they are selling with Mac isn't doing anything to address his character flaws. The message they are sending is that he is basically a screw up if he can't have Mac. So what is his daughter supposed to do? It was almost like he doesn't even care about Delia until he remembers he needs to play daddy from time to time.

Chloe stole the show for me yesterday. EH has really made Chloe into my favorite under 30 character and I wish they would get her far away from Billy and Mac who are insufferably boring and sanctimonious.

But, see, the fact that this line (about Billy) was scripted tells me the writers KNOW what they have done with Billy, and it is INTENTIONAL. In that case, I don't mind it, because it tells me there is a plan.

"It is always darkest before the dawn". Thus, I suspect we'll see Billy's next step as being one of "growing up". Of course, with a character like Billy, he can always back-slide (that is what makes him fun)...but I think they are setting the stage for him to get over his adolescent trauma (losing Mac), and looking at life more authentically and realistically, from the perspective of an adult.

In retrospect, I realize now that Billy and Chloe should have had a few months of tumultuous marriage before Mac came back. While that would have cost a terrific Friday cliffhanger (Mac appears at the wedding), it might have been worth it.

Again, not having Mac BE Mac...not having her integrate with Kay-Brock-Raul-Colleen-Kevin-JT on a regular basis...establishing who she is...bringing some fun to her...bringing some depth to her...is what is really killing her. Her introduction is a victim of the "pod-like" storytelling, and the fact that almost all of her potential scene partners are either recurring or backburnered or, for Kevin, "podded" in another storyline that doesn't remotely overlap.

We have been promised that July 4th will bring some of this integration, and I am delighted. But there NEEDS to be a budgetary and logistic way to do some of this EVERY WEEK.

If the Y&R team DOES monitor these boards, what they should take from it is the request to SLOW DOWN, give us more CONVERSATIONS AND MEANINGFUL MOMENTS and extended cast REACTIONS, to HAVE A SMALLER EFFECTIVE CAST that is regularly used (and the devil take the rest).

Others here want 'business stories' and "romance", but I don't give a sh!t about that. I do want to FEEL these beats more. That said, Kevin Schmidt is potential GOLD, and it is criminal that he is not in a romance that is driving us wild.

So I liked MM a little more yesterday. I still don't see him as Adam as my main issue is how much older he looks. I am intrigued though by the fact I can't tell who truly got manipulated during the man love.

See, I enjoy the Scoobies and Glo-Jeff. Even I get irritated, though, when seeing them means not seeing others (I'm fixated on Nikki and Paul...but I'd add Lauren-Michael and Neil-Devon to the list, I think). In an ideal world, we could enjoy the levity and uniqueness of this story...but not at the cost of other stories. Which returns to my (redunant, sorry!) feeling that the cast must be shrunk...even if it comes with painful cost. If Lauren-Michael and Neil-Devon are now too expensive and don't inspire the writers, they should go (out of town, not recurring)...until the creative team is ready to really play them again and the budget allows it. Tyra-Ana are an obvious one, and (sadly) so are JT-Victoria-Colleen.

Underuse of cast, and the lack of cast integration (I want to see all the reaction shots...I want to see the ripples of each even wash over each 'family' member). I am definitely feeling the lack of this in the currently Summer storyline.

But, see, the fact that this line (about Billy) was scripted tells me the writers KNOW what they have done with Billy, and it is INTENTIONAL. In that case, I don't mind it, because it tells me there is a plan.

"It is always darkest before the dawn". Thus, I suspect we'll see Billy's next step as being one of "growing up". Of course, with a character like Billy, he can always back-slide (that is what makes him fun)...but I think they are setting the stage for him to get over his adolescent trauma (losing Mac), and looking at life more authentically and realistically, from the perspective of an adult.

In retrospect, I realize now that Billy and Chloe should have had a few months of tumultuous marriage before Mac came back. While that would have cost a terrific Friday cliffhanger (Mac appears at the wedding), it might have been worth it.

Again, not having Mac BE Mac...not having her integrate with Kay-Brock-Raul-Colleen-Kevin-JT on a regular basis...establishing who she is...bringing some fun to her...bringing some depth to her...is what is really killing her. Her introduction is a victim of the "pod-like" storytelling, and the fact that almost all of her potential scene partners are either recurring or backburnered or, for Kevin, "podded" in another storyline that doesn't remotely overlap.

We have been promised that July 4th will bring some of this integration, and I am delighted. But there NEEDS to be a budgetary and logistic way to do some of this EVERY WEEK.

If the Y&R team DOES monitor these boards, what they should take from it is the request to SLOW DOWN, give us more CONVERSATIONS AND MEANINGFUL MOMENTS and extended cast REACTIONS, to HAVE A SMALLER EFFECTIVE CAST that is regularly used (and the devil take the rest).

I hope you are right Mark but I have my doubts because I've been telling myself for months that they have a plan with Billy. Up until Mac arrived that appeared to be the case. But now I see a glimmer that the plan might actually be for Mac to save Billy and that doesn't add up for me. To tell this story at this juncture is a mishap. Billy has fathered a child. At the very least, he should be able to gain some clarity and degree of maturation for his child's sake.

Others here want 'business stories' and "romance", but I don't give a sh!t about that. I do want to FEEL these beats more. That said, Kevin Schmidt is potential GOLD, and it is criminal that he is not in a romance that is driving us wild.

They do need to find a romance for Noah but I can't think of anyone right now that he isn't related to.

Did Mary Jane not think that hurting Summer to get Phyllis and Nick back together will just result in Sharon going back to Jack?

Did Mary Jane not think that hurting Summer to get Phyllis and Nick back together will just result in Sharon going back to Jack?

Ugh. Please don't talk sense. Because this whole quad-plus-Mary Jane thing is just CRUMBLING before my eyes.

What SENSE did the poisoning make? I cannot find the thread of logic that explains what she hoped to get out of that. Sure, it drags Phyllis away from Jack...but leaves Sharon a free agent. Now if Brad were still alive....it might have worked.

MAB is a Bell. This is a Bell show. It's either her or Bradley running the ship, so we're better off with Maria. Case closed. Where I want to see change is under Maria. I would like to see Tom Casiello given a promotion. His episodes are just better than other people's episodes. The guy knows what he's doing.

Tom Casiello is overrated. He is just there on a temporary bases. I dont get all this love this man gets. He is the ABC version of Ron Carlivati and look where Carlivati is now. Where are the zillion posts in the OLTL thread?? Long gone because fans hate the show now.

Tom Casiello is overrated. He is just there on a temporary bases. I dont get all this love this man gets. He is the ABC version of Ron Carlivati and look where Carlivati is now. Where are the zillion posts in the OLTL thread?? Long gone because fans hate the show now.

No, this time I disagree. I don't want to put TC up on some pedestal. But qualitatively, his last two episodes were real standouts for me. There was some of the character-moments we are talking about wanting more of here.

I guess I don't understand the TC-hatred any more than the TC-worship. He's another writer on the show, and (in the context of a larger writing team that has some cracks exposed), he is acquitting himself very nicely.

To link this back to episodes: Beall was BORN to write for EH's Chloe! I hope they do many more Beall-Chloe episodes.

Edited June 30, 200916 yr by MarkH

Nina :wub:

I love Victor in this episode. Can there be something juicy out of this please? Like, uh, Adam throwing Gloria into the fireplace?

And it was great to see Nina bring in Neil and for us to see the Winters' involvement in this storyline. This is the integration I'm talking about. Of course, it'd be great if something were brewing with Neil as the new CEO of Chancellor but I like this. And again, pacing would be phenomenal.

Tom Casiello is overrated. He is just there on a temporary bases. I dont get all this love this man gets. He is the ABC version of Ron Carlivati and look where Carlivati is now. Where are the zillion posts in the OLTL thread?? Long gone because fans hate the show now.

What is Tom Casiello known for? What are his best scripts? Didn't he write at ATWT and DAYS with Hogan Sheffer? And now at Y&R. If he takes after Sheffer then I'd rather they go with a different writer.

I love Victor in this episode. Can there be something juicy out of this please? Like, uh, Adam throwing Gloria into the fireplace?

The way Victor speaks to Jill never fails to sour me on him. They seem to keep using her as some example of how great he is, and it just backfires for me.

The way Victor speaks to Jill never fails to sour me on him. They seem to keep using her as some example of how great he is, and it just backfires for me.

I despise the Victor/Jill dynamic. He should be downright horrifying to everyone else but her, Jack and Katherine. I don't know where these people felt they had to right to make him impervious to so many damn people in on the show now?

But I wasn't talking about him and Jill. I was talking about him with Phyllis and with Jeffrey and Gloria. That was fun LOL.

I despise the Victor/Jill dynamic. He should be downright horrifying to everyone else but her, Jack and Katherine. I don't know where these people felt they had to right to make him impervious to so many damn people in on the show now?

But I wasn't talking about him and Jill. I was talking about him with Phyllis and with Jeffrey and Gloria. That was fun LOL.

The scenes with Jeffrey and Gloria were deserved. The Jill scenes make me see red, probably because I think his attitude is reflecting some larger feeling towards Jill on the show's part.

He can do whatever he wants to the other two, especially Jeffrey.

But Maria also said that the summer would bring about characters who didn't get much storyline earlier in the year being front-burner and getting more story attention. I haven't seen much difference in the cast being used right now and the cast that was heavily used in the beginning of the year. Which is why I think after this Adam story, Rafe will either go back to strictly being the recurring lawyer, or they'll probably write him off.

We still have a couple of months of summer left, so maybe some of those ignored characters will get some play. So far the only formly ignored character that's getting any play is Daniel.