Y&R: Episodes Discussion for the week June 22

[lmfan]

But even in an episode thread, posters can be critical of current stories. I believe Y&R should and can be better than what they are doling out. If one likes what they are selling great, but where the show was much praised late last year and early this year, now many are criticising the show. That should say something to the writers.

[alphanguy74]

Well, to be honest, I came up with it in about 10 minutes

[lmfan]

I am watching this show and just because Adam grabbed at Ashley after the fact doesn't negate that he confronted her in the dark on the stairs dressed up as Sabrina. If you scare anyone on stairs this way, the logical consequnce of your actions would be that she would fall. Saying after the fact, that I didn't mean for you to fall or lose your baby makes no sense considering how Ashley came to fall.

It's like setting a house on fire with people in it and later saying I didn't intend for anyone in the house to die.

[rhythmchyc]

I missed Greg's GL too. And I doubt he's coming back now.

I'm glad to have seen the monologue at all. I enjoyed MM's performance in that scene and in just about all others so far.

I personally never saw how good CE was. IMO, he just couldn't do vengeful, which I think he should've been able to figure out how to play all the months ago without a monologue. Victor and Jack had spurned him in scenes he shared with them, he should've been able to convey a combination of vindicated and remorseful not absolutely nothing and shallow remorse via whimpering/an unresponsive brick wall. I don't get the Tom Cruise little sensitive sympathetic boy thing everyone else does. He's a punk a--.

MM's playing it like a man. I don't find MM cartoony so far but again that's IMO. The final scene with Rafe was chilling. I doubt CE would've played this scene with as much variety. This is a great recast.

Per the fetus, it's gone, whether it's been expelled or retained. What Adam did with it is sick no matter what he did. I understand some feel cheated about the status of the remains but I'm not. It's gross all the way around, even if Adam delivered it, blessed it as an angel, and saw it floating in white robes with a harp and wings ascending to heaven. Those details don't concern me at this point. It's gone. If they revisit it to fill in the hole then fine but there's so much going on that needs rectifying in this s/l.

I don't want this to be a feigned Adam or another brain tumor victim either. He is what he is: a scorned little boy attempting to play with the big boys and winning (at the expense of many characters and their history). I'll feel horribly slighted if there's yet another victim on this show. It needs schemers terribly, no matter if they're short-lived and dehumanized in the end. There shouldn't be any more poor Kevin, Jana, or Lily moments splayed on my screen goddammit.

[brimike]

He actually scared her outside of her bedroom. She was asleep, he whispered her name, she woke up, exited the bedroom and saw Adam-as-Sabrina walk through the hall outside the bedroom first. Ashley followed after him, and they ended up at the top of the stairs. But Ashley got to the stairs first - not Adam. How would he have known that's where she was going to run? She could have easily run back into the bedroom and locked the door.

I'm with you, alphanguy. I do see obvious pacing problems with the story, but I do think some things make sense, and this is one of them.

[Greg's GL]

Criticism should always be encouraged. I don't think anyone is saying that you can not, or should not, criticize the stories in the thread. Let's face it. It makes the discussion a lot more lively when there are persons of differing veiwpoints.

But often times, it's the same ambiguous criticism week after week and posted multiple times in the same thread.

[brimike]

Yeah, that was exactly my point when I took off for a few weeks. I just had to get away from the same four posts posted over and over and over again. I loved the postings last night - to be able to debate and discuss and see all of the different viewpoints and perspectives. It was lively without anybody feeling like they were wrong for not seeing something another person's way.

But yeah - I almost want to switch to another soap for the sole purpose of getting out of the SON Y&R threads lately. (He says, half-joking) The other shows seem to have much more civilized threads. Almost makes me want to go back to watching DOOL. (J.P. would be so happy!)

[alphanguy74]

Exactly. I see confronting someone and scaring the crap out of them has two natural responses... FIGHT or FLIGHT. She could have hit him, ripped his veil off, run back int eh bedroom, locked the door... or ran down the stairs and out of the house, instead, she PAUSED at the top of the stairs to look at him again. Any reasonable person would have run down the stairs and out of the house, and NOT fallen. I don't know about you, but I've ran down MY stairs in my own house in a panic on more than one ocaasion, and I've certianly never fell down. However, the monologue on Friay's eppy, I felt was too heavy on dialogue. IT's like they were trying to refresh our memories on Adam's motivaiton all in one sweep. That stuff should ahve played out over about three or four scenes over the course of a week. But Muhney did his best with such a dialogue heavy scene.

[Greg's GL]

Wasssssup my friend! I didn't go anywhere, just haven't had much time to post lately. But I'll make sure not to stay gone so long next time.

Excellent post. ICAM. I accepted CE as Adam at first - he had great sibling rivalry chemistry with JM and AH. Great chemistry with VB as well. But once they started in this story, it was obviously over his head and I'm glad that they found someone that can play it like a man (to use your words)

[cara mia]

The actors have no say over the clunky dialogue. I think they are all doing the best they can all things considered.

The problem is that TPTB value shock over characterization. If had scenes showing why MJ was so attached to Jack, we wouldn't be "shocked" when she poisons Summer. IMO, that's backwards thinking and poor writing. Knowing who MJ is or knowing why Adam is so upset or knowing that Cane has been lying (which should have been hinted at a long time ago) does NOT ruin the story. In fact, it makes the story better because it builds suspense wondering about what they will do next and when. Characterization is good! Honestly, it is! And can someone, ANYONE, explain to me why Jack is acting the way he is? WHY is Jack so pathetic? I still haven't seen an story beats or characterization explaining this at all -- just fanwanks from us folks online.

I am all for one thread. I find the back & forth between the threads confusing. Maybe I am just easily confused.

[lmfan]

She saw what she thought was a dead woman on the stairs, then she grabbed the veil and saw Adam. Either event was unexpected for her and shocking. I still say Adam's regret does not fly with me because he set up a situation where Ashley was likely to fall. Add on top of that the fact Adam is allowing a molester to be Ashley's OB/GYN and is still tormenting her,so him trying to make excuses for what he did to Ashley rings hollow.

Ashley is the one who he is hurting both physically and emotionally. Victor and Jack aren't even being vctimized at this point because they don't know what Ashley has been put through via Adam. Adam is a weak person and always has been, but this plot to get back at Victor and Jack is just dumb because Jack barely spends any time with Ashley and as Adam has witnessed when Victor replaced Ashley with Sabrina and his own experience with his mother, it's not like Victor has difficulty replacing women and children he has lost.

[rhythmchyc]

Seriously, every time I saw CE on the screen, I felt like slapping him. He was just so frustrating to me.

MM is scary, but I don't think he's gotten to the point where I can't sympathize with Adam's plight anymore. Especially as he realizes that he's going blind for real, in the scene with Heather on Thursday's US episode, I thought that was a good way to introduce this version of Adam as he continues to dive into the deep-end.

[lmfan]

But a man is not who Adam has been written as since he has returned. He has been a whiny manipulative boy sulking about his rich father giving everything to his siblings who don't deserve it. I was never a big fan of CE, but his problem was not that he didn't play Adam like a MAN because Adam was never written that way. They may be changing Adam now, but that is in the writer's hands and is not consistant with the Adam of the past year and half.

That's not to say I am critical of MM. He was tossed into a thankless position and is doing the best he can. I think it is way too early to say how he will do in this part.

[cara mia]

CE is a boyish man, MM is a mannish man. No argument. But the writing to date has been for Adam the boy-man. TPTB need to take Adam in a different direction with the recast. MM will not work with YG's Rafe and VB's Bloom. Rafe is a boy-man, Heather is a girl-woman. They look a decade younger than MM's Adam. TPTB need to put Adam into a new orbit with Mary Jane and P3 and other thirty/forty-something characters. Besides, why is Adam wasting his time with non-entities like Rafe & Heather? The show is too bloated and too cast heavy. TPTB need to streamline and just focus on core characters.

[rhythmchyc]

TPTB wanted Ashley to lose the baby for the s/l to be shocking. They're not thinking in the context of Adam's reactions or emotions, they're thinking of the audience. This is why that aspect of this s/l is so hated by the fans. Adam dressing up as Sabrina, developing all those tapes to torment Ashley, creating that scrapbook and bringing it to her hotel room, that would've all been enough in a normal Y&R gaslighting piece. But now, they think we'd tune out if something horrendous didn't happen to one of Adam's victims and they caused this stupid monstrous thing to happen.

Adam's regret should've developed from the get-go. The doctor coming in was another poorly thought-out concept. This is why whenever I see him, I force myself to shut half of my brain off until the next scene or until he's gone. The miscarriage should've never happened and TPTB are having a tough time trying to handle it.

Jack's absence is due to the limitations brought on by the studio's, right? Otherwise, Billy, Tracy, Olivia, and Jack would be under Victor's nose this whole time.

And the main reason why Victor got over Sabrina so quickly is because the writers don't know how to pace soap operas correctly. I don't think that it's because Victor easily replaces women, or at least in this case, Sabrina.

I still like this plot to get back at Victor and Jack because it's a PLOT to GET BACK at VICTOR and JACK!! I don't remember a time in the recent past when someone on this show schemed against both Victor and Jack. That's what's keeping my attention.

What's more, I can't wait to see how Victor will make Adam pay.