I been was through with the QUAD when they made Phick serious. I knew it wasn't going anywhere nice.

Edited June 12, 200916 yr by MoTheGreat

I don't understand why some people don't want this ridiculous quad separate by now, if even on a temporary basis. We've had like almost four years of them eating this show alive non-stop. Enough is enough already.

Poor MJ! She doesn't want Paul to be enemy!

Her scrapbooks & dead animals are :wub: :wub:

Too much bitc.hing in here over nothing.

Poor MJ! She doesn't want Paul to be an enemy!

I loved that part! MJ is so captivating to watch. I can guess what's she going to do to Phyllis, but I wonder what's she going to do to Sharon and Victor.

Too much bitc.hing in here over nothing.

I don't mind the bitching if it's constructive criticism and good episode discussion instead of people repeating the same things over and over again - it's like we get it, we know. No need to say it every day or every week.

^^^Word. Generally when the show is dull I find the forums to be a great escape, however, it's been the total opposite lately.

Wow -I don't sign in for awhile, and then I come back to 12 pages of the same stuff over and over again. Alvin hates everything Y&R is doing now, and Sylph and DeeDee back him up. MarkH and Alphanguy are their foils, proclaiming why they love the show. (And poor Toups even got dragged into it) And somewhere in the middle are the rest of the posters, who are able to find some middle ground. And here's what I will never understand - it's a TELEVISION SHOW. Which means it's ALL subjective - what some find thrilling, others see as dark and misogynistic. What some find disturbing, others proclaim as the best they've seen in years. That's how TV shows work - it's a matter of personal taste.

I know I'll get mocked for saying this... but I have to throw it out there. I was an NBC guy growing up - but there were certainly times that DOOL, AW and Santa Barbera didn't make me happy. So I stopped watching. And when I heard good buzz, I tuned back in. I know in many circles, people feel like they HAVE to watch these shows every day, out of some obligation. Like you're not "really a fan" if you don't watch every day, whether you like what you see or not. But I guess I don't give daytime a pass like that. Just like with prime time, if I'm bored or angry at the direction a show is going in, I just stop watching it. I can already "see" the responses with the "eye roll" emoticon at the suggestion people just turn it off if they don't like it. But in all of those "eye roll" responses and people implying "I guess now somebody will write the obnoxious 'Why do you bother watching?' response), I have yet to read anyone explain to me WHY they keep watching if it's such a trial. I can't figure out if it just makes people feel superior to sign online and post about how awful the show is every day, or what?! I mean, I understand that. I remember posting in DOOL threads a year ago about how awful everything was... but it only lasted, like, a month. And then I just stopped posting - because really, what does me banging my drum and trying to convince everybody they're wrong really do in the long run? It just makes people bored reading my posts, and hate me for constantly telling them they're WRONG and the show is NOT GOOD, and if you disagree, then clearly you have some kind of problem that you can't see what I see.

As for me, I share concerns about the future of this team, but that doesn't mean I'm not enjoying aspects. I love the Adam/Ashley/Victor story, I love Mary Jane's psycho-antics, and I love every scene Peter Bergman and Michelle Stafford are in. I have issues with the art story and how it started, but if the rumors are true about

Sean Kanan/Deacon

being the mastermind, I'm willing to forgive a crappy start to see what he brings to the canvas. And yes, I find many of the stories to be misogynistic, but at the same time, I don't see any men (other than Adam, Victor and Jack) driving story. Nick is just a ping-pong ball, Paul is Nikki's appendage, Kevin does whatever Amber and Jana tell him to do, Billy can't make up his mind WHAT he wants... for all the misogyny in one or two stories, the rest of the stories involve a man being castrated. So I don't see how you can have it both ways.

And yet - as much as I agree with some of the things Alvin/Sylph/DeeDee say... it doesn't mean I'm not enjoying the show. I tune in every day, because in the last six months, there have been VERY few episodes I feel like I wasted an hour watching. I can't say that about other soaps right now, that's for sure. And yes, I know the response to that is "Daytime sucks right now, so Y&R can be better than the rest, and yet still SUCK". But here's the thing - NO OTHER SHOW (besides B& has had the stability of one HW/EP for most of its lifespan. What's happened on Y&R over the last decade is what the rest of daytime suffered through in the late 80's/early 90's - with new head writers stepping in and creating their own "vision" for a couple of years before the network finally gets sick of them and fires them. It sucks that it's happening, but it was bound to happen eventually. If anything, we should be grateful Bill Bell died doing his life's work, and wasn't ousted by a slimy network exec.

I'm not trying to be a jerk here - I just truly don't understand why I come into this thread every day and read THE SAME POSTS OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Reading these last twelve pages felt like an endless task - and yet it's like reading the same five posters say the same five things every day.

I have to admit, I'm starting to see R Sinclair's point about the AMC threads vs the Y&R threads. They talk about one episode for two pages, and then move on to the next day's episode. I would much prefer that than this endless tedium of everyone repeating themselves for 30-odd pages.

But, just like with television shows, if I'm not a fan, I just turn it off. And so it will go with this thread. I mean, really? Debating whether or not 1979 was a good year for Y&R? In a world where Megan McTavish and Dena Higley can get hired over and over and over again in spite of the fact that they've NEVER had a good track record, can't we at least be grateful for the fact that although we have a flawed head writer, she seems to at least care about what the majority of the fans think? What other reason could there be for the fact that MAB has reversed every bad decision made by a previous writing regime in the span of a year? It's blatantly obvious that she gives a damn about the show, and isn't just "collecting a paycheck"" like so many other head writers out there. Does she suck at coming up with a good Winters story? Absolutely. Are the musical beds in the quad frustrating? Of course they are. But really, for all the faults I have with the show, I find myself enjoying it more often than not enjoying it. Does that mean I have bad taste? No - it just means I have MY taste. It's not good or bad, it's just individual preference.

I used to really enjoying posting here, on any number of soaps - DOOL, ATWT, GL, OLTL, GH, Y&R. About what I liked and what I didn't like in each day's episode. Having a discussion. But this isn't a "discussion" anymore. It's basically two or three people saying how awful it is, and two or three people debating that. I've been on forums where people are divided on a show before - but at least there wasn't any tunnel vision. But if you pull up ANY Y&R thread from the last 12 weeks, you'll find the conversation just boils down to the same two or three points made by the same posters over and over and over again. It doesn't even matter what happened on the show that week - that's totally besides the point. It just becomes about who is "smart" enough to hate the show, and who is "stupid" enough to enjoy it.

Blah, blah, blah. I've said my peace. Forgive me for ranting, but this is the reason why I stopped posting in here these last couple weeks... and I had to get it off my chest.

Back to lurkdom I go... thanks for hearing me out... or "reading me out" as the case may be. [/venting]

This was buried under a slew of new posts and now that I've seen it, I want to repost to say how ridiculous it is that members like brimike have been so disgusted by the rampant negativity that he and various others have refused to post/read the y&r thread.

Malarky and Balderdash.

Edited June 12, 200916 yr by rhythmchyc

I agreed with a good portion of what brimike said.

Now can we talk about the show? So, I posted a spoiler back a few pages (that was likely lost) about

the doctor telling Adam, after all of his botox eye injections that he will very likely go completely blind.

Do you think this is the first step in some comeuppance for him? He perplexes me because I don't think he meant for Ashley to lose the baby, but then I'm like, what the hell did he think driving her crazy was going to do exactly?

Nikki had been pushed firmly on that backburner, but now we're seeing more of her in this Adam story. I wonder if thats how they intend to write MTS off if her contract doesn't work out. It's nice to finally see another smart woman, the other being Nina. I picture her becoming more and more nosey (as only Nikki Newman could do) and once Adam picks up on it, he could frame Nikki and send her off to prison for all of his crimes. But that might be too harsh because when MTS returns (and we all know she will), they'd have to write Adam off by sending him to prison. Hmm...but I do see him somehow framing her. Either that or doing worse and I don't want Nikki in physical pain anymore. They've played that out with all the shootings and drinking.

This art story is very depressing. As another posted said it's rushed, extemely contrived and plot driven and doesn't fit into the show. All of these semi-talented actors are just props and I fail to see why I should care. It doesn't affect any of the relationships, it's just keeping this group together in a very boring way. It kinda makes me wish they'd gone full steam ahead with that Tyra/JT/Victoria triangle that was rumored months ago. I don't think all hope is lost with any of these characters, but they're all in the wrong story.

Kevin/Jana - They just need to go at this point, along with Michael, Gloria and Jeffrey. Their story is done. The others I would consider trying again, but this story has to end immediately. It's the main thing bothering me about MAB. People can cite flaws in the Mary Jane or Adam stories, but this story is just a complete disaster from start to finish. It's a LML trademark. If we are to expect more of this in coming months, I'm worried.

I do wonder what happened to the great umbrella stories she was telling. For a while it seemed that when one story ended, it would launch a new story focused on different characters and everything seemed fluid. Now the show feels a little disjointed. It's not as seamless as before. I feel like Jill and Katherine should still be regularly featured, but they've disappeared. Jill is one character I wish could regain some of her strength and power. She needs to be an equal to Jack and Victor. I don't like her as the loser or so supporting to everyone elses stories. She's overdue for a love interest as well.

I agreed with a good portion of what brimike said.

Now can we talk about the show? So, I posted a spoiler back a few pages (that was likely lost) about

the doctor telling Adam, after all of his botox eye injections that he will very likely go completely blind.

Do you think this is the first step in some comeuppance for him? He perplexes me because I don't think he meant for Ashley to lose the baby, but then I'm like, what the hell did he think driving her crazy was going to do exactly?

I think it will be more about some type of big dramatic irony from Y&R,

that this supposed evil genius blinds himself for good. Another way to show us just how truly stupid he is. I don't think it will be a way to turn him around, because he did this to himself. Viewers will have no reason to pity him. We may even be expected to be amused.

I think it will be more about some type of big dramatic irony from Y&R,

that this supposed evil genius blinds himself for good. Another way to show us just how truly stupid he is. I don't think it will be a way to turn him around, because he did this to himself. Viewers will have no reason to pity him. We may even be expected to be amused.

I can see that, I think the audience will probably be like,

"That's what you get", but the spoiler implies that he's devastated by it.

I don't mean they're making him "good", I don't think he's ever going to be good, he'll probably be very much like this bastard father,

but I think people might feel a little more comfortable with his actions if they see evidence that the will in fact pay for them.

This would be the first step towards that.

I think the big difference between Adam and Victor is they'd never take Victor this far. They'd also never make him so weak,

as blinding himself through his dumb scheme is very weak.

I feel like they're almost deliberately taking Adam as far as they can go, perhaps because up to now the story hasn't had enough reason for fans to genuinely hate Adam. But what he's doing to Ashley, not even just the miscarriage lies, but to have her treated by a doctor who molests his female patients, I'm not sure the audience will ever get over that. That's not love to hate, that's pure slime.

The best thing this show could do right now, IMHO, is go through the cast list and cut at least 10 people.

Listen, cats can be as big as they want to be, as long as the show can handle it. I do feel Y&R's cast, esp between recurring and contract, is too big for them to handle.

Cut the dead weight, the characters that dont work, etc... recast characters that need a strong actor/actress that are important like Colleen or Victoria.

Then come up with stories for the cast you kept. And if it means bringing on a slew of new AA characters, get on it. Because Niel & The Hamiltons? Not working. And great interesting complex AA characters played by strong actors is such a part of Y&R and has been for 2 decades + now. I just watched a storyline where Olivia thought she had gotten AIDS. THAT was an amazing story, and TLW rocked it. Where is that?

And as for Mary Jane... im getting a Tricia vibe. and IDK if that is good because they basically wrote Tricia into a corner and had to write her off. Im going in with blind faith that this wont happen to MJ and they have a long term arc and perhaps a redemption if needed planned out now, ahead of time.

The quad is my other issue. I cant stand it. I cant root for anyone in it. Cant they all go their own ways now? Move Nick into the Adam/Heather orbit.

But really, my biggest isue is the cast. Why is Gloria still here? What is Jana doing on this show? Does anyone care about Tyra? Etc.....

All of that said, i like Y&R. Like it. I dont love it, im far from hating it. But then again ive always watched Y&R because it was good, its never really entertained me the way other soaps do (Days for example... and no, im not saying DOOL is better, im saying it entertains me more).

She's overdue for a love interest as well.

*cough*DanGauthier*cough*

I think the big difference between Adam and Victor is they'd never take Victor this far. They'd also never make him so weak,

as blinding himself through his dumb scheme is very weak.

I feel like they're almost deliberately taking Adam as far as they can go, perhaps because up to now the story hasn't had enough reason for fans to genuinely hate Adam. But what he's doing to Ashley, not even just the miscarriage lies, but to have her treated by a doctor who molests his female patients, I'm not sure the audience will ever get over that. That's not love to hate, that's pure slime.

I have been waiting for years to get just an evil SOB with no heart, no redemption, no nothing but evil.

If Y&R goes that far with Adam, i will LOVE it.

*cough*DanGauthier*cough*

:wub:

YESSSSS!!

I feel like if they went the cougar route with Jill, it wouldn't have much longterm impact and she'd be right back where she is now - single and grumpy.