Y&R: Shocking Role Recast

[bellcurve]

But we're not talking about your empathy. We're talking about people who may feel for him and people getting branded homophobic because of it.

If you'll notice, I didn't say ALL gay people. I said "the gay people who..."

The same people that make shows like ET, The Insider, and TMZ syndie successes?

Just because someone is relative unknown doesn't make them any less of an actor or an "artist."

But we don't know if Adam is gay or if he's bi or even if he's raping Rafe! According to NuGina's Twitter, Adam's being written as a very dark character.

No one is saying that it ISN'T a soap opera message board. I'm well aware. But this has veered off-topic into a more political/social debate that has everyone casting their irons in the fire. Should this thread be moved to the OT lounge, since some in the thread are personally pointing fingers at who's a homophobe and who isn't?

[rhinohide]

Maybe, but the language in this thread is so combative it prevents reasonable disagreement. I've been labeled a homophobe purely because I don't think Cris Engen committed an injustice, so that's why I singled out that part of your post.

[MTSRocks]

If you're only going to quote parts of my post, then what's the point. I already stated what I said.

1.) Why should I empathize with those who continue to defend an actor who "by choice" quit his job? Still, not feeling for anyone. I also have not labeled anyone.

ETA: I just think Engen made a selfish stupid move.

2.) I know you did not say ALL that's why I added "5 or so people..."

3.) Yes, everyone likes gossip, but who gives them the ammunition? If you're a celebrity you're going to be put in the spotlight whether good or bad.

4.) Read the rest of the post, I said that...

5.) Yes, but given the circumstances and his wanting to work more, the assumption can be made for that being the reason he left. Again, only Engen knows.

6.) No, put you kept mentioning other issues. Fine enough, let's discuss those other issues facing the gay community elsewhere, and concentrate on the topic at hand.

Fair enough. I'm trying to be as reasonable as I can here tho.

[classicmoment]

I'm going to say I don't think what CE did was necessarily wrong or right as far as I'm concerned. He made a decision for himself that I don't believe should personally affect anyone on here.

[MTSRocks]

^^^It doesn't affect me personally one bit. Just commenting on the story.

[bellcurve]

No one is saying that you didn't state what you said. I just replied to it. Whether you think I did an effective job of that, well that's your deal.

[MTSRocks]

^^Ok.

[SteveFrame]

That's what I was thinking too.

This thread is either filled with those that say he did.

Or those that say we don't know.

I have not seen one person that said NO he didn't leave over the kiss. In fact not on any board I have been too have I seen one.

I can't prove that HE didn't leave over it. The info is way too ambiguous to say what he left over. There are way too many possibilities.

[classicmoment]

I'm speaking to the people who want to attach labels to the man because he made a decision. There is not even full evidence of facts. To me that sounds like taking it personally

[MarkH]

OMG

[MarkH]

I'm not an expert in social movements, but I think this "with us or against us" is a phase in such movements. It is an activist/militant phase...kind of like Black Panthers in the 1960s.

Thus, while I agree with you and many others here that this kind of black-and-white non-compromise thinking is problematic, I think it serves a social value in the evolution of social thinking. Polarizing talk forces people on the fence to choose sides. And once that happens, it makes it clearer who is "pro" or "con" your topic...and that helps you purify your message as time goes on.

I would also mention that a lot of people here toss the word "agenda" around like it is a bad thing. Well, in my life (and I'm not talking about Engen...I'm talking about meetings and I'm talking about career plans and I'm talking about how I structure my day), agendas are a very good thing. I'm kind of curious about when having an "agenda" became a bad thing?

Lastly, let me ask this open question. Let's say a straight actor refuses to kiss a female co-start because she is obese. Let's even make her morbidly obese. She's drowning in rolls of fat! And the straight actor is icked out. Even though the script calls for him to kiss her, he cannot bring himself to kiss her because of her gelatinous form.

Does this make him anti-fat? Does he have a problem with fat acceptance? Shouldn't he, in his role, be able to kiss her despite her largeness?

Can we really say that, because he is icked-out by obesity, he is not prejudiced against fat?

I don't know the answer...and I'm not suggesting that Engen quit because he didn't want to kiss a dude (we don't really know). But I do think there are some parallels that should make us think.

Can you be icked out about kissing a morbidly obese woman if you do NOT have a problem with obesity?

[DeeeDee]

Eh. No.

It's the timing of his exit.

[Vee]

I'm not calling anyone else here a homphobe. I am calling Chris Engen a homophobe. When you're willing to ruin your livelihood and your family's over having to play mild gay content with another actor, that is not about "artistic integrity," especially not after all the other crazy or if you prefer, stupid [!@#$%^&*] Adam has done. That's homophobia. I don't really give a [!@#$%^&*] if people think that is reactionary or unfair, because it's not. It's a logical conclusion to come to, and people don't want to face it because they'd rather talk about gay militias or Perez Hilton's fat face or the writing on Y&R or uppity minorities targeting another poor straight person who just came into work as a professional actor and shouldn't have been expected to, you know, act.

None of that really matters. If you want to call me a radical for stating the obvious, logical conclusion, that's fine. He was homophobic, and it cost him his job. This may be difficult for some of you to grasp, but I happen to think gay people can walk and chew gum at the same goddamn time. We can focus on larger, important social problems while also calling bullshit on offensive, homophobic media incidents such as this. We have in the past to positive results. Calling Chris Engen what he is does not put me in the Perez Hilton camp of some false equivalence you seem so desperate to draw between warring camps of "Perez Hilton" or "Harvey Milk." I'd rather we follow Milk's example, but Milk also knew how to use media and draw attention to media issues in order to improve GLBT relations (unlike Perez Hilton). If something like this came up in California back then, I'm sure he'd have had something witty to say about it. But it seems that today, he'd get finger-wagged by this board for daring to comment in what I'm sure would be called "a stereotypically gay and negative way." The best way to deal with these problems today, apparently, is for us to continue holding $500-a-plate charity galas honoring crap like Bianca and Reese or Grey's Anatomy where nothing gets accomplished, then sitting on our hands while other homophobia slips through the cracks because we don't want to look like those kind of homosexuals.

[Soapsuds]

[Soapsuds]

Well my post didnt go through. Steve, CE never denied that he didnt leave because of the kiss. That is the big problem here. Bellcurve is right there are more important things but this isn't a board about gay guys losing their jobs because they are gay.