Did Alice (regardless of who was playing her) and Rachel interact much after Rachel got intertwined with Mac and Iris? It seemed like there was an intention on reinventing Rachel as a character after her involvement with the Cory's, so many of her prior relationships were not emphasized as much after that.

Well from reading the show's synopsis, Alice and Iris didn't like each other around the time Iris came to town b/c Iris' estranged husband, who hired Alice to care for Dennis [iris' son], was falling for her [if I am not mistaken].

Also, I think that around the time of Alice's return, she [Alice] dated Mac while Rachel was involved with David Canary's Steve.

Gary Tomlin didn't know much about the character of Alice? One of the original cast members and most popular actresses/characters of the 60's and 70's?

I find it incredible if true that there weren't people at P&G or the studio who could advise him. Wouldn't you as a writer want to know what went before as a source of ideas?

Reading through 67 synopses when Ada was introduced,she was blackmailing Liz into paying for a private room at the hospital for her beloved Rachel.

Gary Tomlin didn't know much about the character of Alice? One of the original cast members and most popular actresses/characters of the 60's and 70's?

I find it incredible if true that there weren't people at P&G or the studio who could advise him. Wouldn't you as a writer want to know what went before as a source of ideas?

Reading through 67 synopses when Ada was introduced,she was blackmailing Liz into paying for a private room at the hospital for her beloved Rachel.

Exactly. You'd think he'd go around and ask the actors or even production members. Hell, call up a soap magazine and see if they could've pulled up the series' synopsis over the years to help you. But this issue is still an issue nowadays when there is really is excuse for not know the canon of the show.

I remember looking forward to Alice's return in 83...Such a letdown...sticking her w/ lame duck Mark Singleton...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

She (JC) deserved much better!

Not to defend Tomlin, but given all the huge changes AW had went through backstage, I'm not surprised if there was limited info around. I remember Harding Lemay saying he got details from a long viewer letter he never would have had otherwise. He should have talked to Courtney herself, but realistically, Alice wasn't going to have a lot to do no matter what. P&G had decisively moved away from older characters on every single one of their soaps. Even on AW, Mac and Rachel mostly just existed as parents or part of umbrella stories in these years, with brief side stories like Rachel getting shot (again) and having medical problems.

Allen Potter, who was AW's original producer in 1964, was the executive producer when Jacqueline Courtney returned in 1984. He , along with P&G executive Ed Trach, certainly knew her importance. During her year long return, she was never given her own storyline. She was a supporting player for her daughter, Sally who was involved in the David Thatcher murder. The only other Matthews on the show at that time were Aunt Liz and her granddaughter Julia (Faith Ford) who would be murdered looking for David Thatcher's killer. The writers needed to either have her involved with Mac/Rachel since she was engaged to Mac at one point, or have her get involved with Carl Hutchins to try and get information on his involvement with David Thatcher's murder to clear both Sally and Catlin.

Also, I think it was a big mistake to kill off Sally in 1986. They should have rested the character for awhile, then recasted. Having Sally and her son, Kevin, on the canvas could have meant storyline for Alice's return.

It sounds like Gary Tomlin needed a strong co head writer to help him study the history of the show like Pam Long had with Nancy Curlee over at GL.

Alice was a huge character in the 60s and 70s, and having the original actress come back right at the 20th anniversary of the show should have perhaps tipped Tomlin off that this character was important. In fact, wasn't her return one the main reasons the show had a decent increase in ratings during that era? I'm going to guess that her and Rachel didn't really interact all that much during that year long stint except for the one scene of Rachel having amnesia with Alice tearfully saying that she couldn't disclose to Rachel parts of their history due to it being painful to her still.

Yes, certain writers, like Pamela Long on TGL and Hogan Sheffer on ATWT turned out their best work when paired with strong co-headwriters.

Rachel and Alice did share a few, token moments here and there, under Tomlin, but the show never capitalized on their history, or never really reignited their conflict, which would have been a boon for the show.

Well from reading the show's synopsis, Alice and Iris didn't like each other around the time Iris came to town b/c Iris' estranged husband, who hired Alice to care for Dennis [iris' son], was falling for her [if I am not mistaken].

Also, I think that around the time of Alice's return, she [Alice] dated Mac while Rachel was involved with David Canary's Steve.

Yes, the Alice/Iris/Iris conflict was developed in the early 1970s, with the Jacqueline Courtney, Beverlee McKinsey, and James Douglas playing the parts. It was great!

The character of Alice came and went several times over the course of the show. A tepid, colorless recast, Linda Borgenson, was playing Alice at the time Rachel and David Canary's Steven Frame were involved. Corrine Jacker was a dreadful writer, and the storyline was a bust, even though Canary did make a pretty good Steven.

Edited January 25, 201510 yr by vetsoapfan

Gary Tomlin didn't know much about the character of Alice? One of the original cast members and most popular actresses/characters of the 60's and 70's?

I find it incredible if true that there weren't people at P&G or the studio who could advise him. Wouldn't you as a writer want to know what went before as a source of ideas?

Reading through 67 synopses when Ada was introduced,she was blackmailing Liz into paying for a private room at the hospital for her beloved Rachel.

I imagine there were people involved at P&G who remembered the show's history, but not every writer cares enough, or takes the time enough, to do his research. Those of us who followed scribes like Pat Falken Smith, Douglas Marland, Claire Labine, etc., were spoiled, because it was very clear from their material that they had done exhaustive research into their shows' histories. Other writers, not so much. Also, in his autobiography about the time he spent writing AW, Harding Lemay admitted that TPTB at P&G and the network weren't particularly helpful about filling him in on the show's history. He found more background information in fan letters, LOL.

How long was the gap of David Canary leaving AW and joining AMC? Both happened in 1983, right?

David Canary left AW in February, 1983, and would not appear on AMC until the fall. On AW, he was killed in a car crash during a snow storm. Rachel and Steve were leaving Bay City to get married. Rachel went blind in the accident, and Mac shaved his mustache and assumed the alias of John Caldwell so that he could befriend the blind Rachel. The accident occurred when Constance Ford was out on sick leave. It was weird watching Peg Murray's Ada play the action leading up to the car accident and the aftermath.

OK, thank you for filling in the blanks for me. When David Canary won the 1989 Best Actor Emmy (Doug Watson had also been nominated posthumously), he made an especially classy comment in his acceptance speech - giving props to his one-time AW co-star Doug Watson and what a gentleman he was. I just thought that was really sweet.

Doug Watson and Vicky Wyndham presented David Canary with his first Daytime Emmy when he won for Best Actor in 1986.

I didn't know that. Thanks!! I'll go to YT and see if I can find it.

Someone was asking about if any clips of Susan Trustman's Pat are out there. Here's the clip - and yes, that is a pre-Mac Cory Doug Watson at the beginning.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xyxi9_nbc-daytime-1965_news?start=12

Here it is!! Doug Watson and Vicky Wyndham present the 1986 Outstanding Lead Actor to David Canary, starting at the 54:37 mark: